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Beechjet questions

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Palerider957

Well-known member
Joined
Jan 30, 2003
Posts
975
Hello all:

The boss has told me to go out and get a Beechjet. He sat in one and loved the cabin. We have been flying Citations and a Lear 31A.

What are the general impressions of the 400/400A? Relibility, range, etc. etc.? Has the double-engine flamout issue been resolved?

Thanks in advance.
 
The Air Force flies them dailey for pilot training, known as the T-1. They seem to be doing just fine. I don't remember the range or any of the specifics since it has been several years since I flew one.
 
He'll love that cabin until it stays on the ground if its too hot, too cold or too high outsie. The 400XP/ Beechjet 400A is a good plane for 4 people and a FEW bags doing coastal flying of 800 nm or less. Otherwise you'll be disappointed.
 
Our normal trip is AVL-VNC, we would like to occaisonally do VNC-TEB, or VNC-CLE, VNC-MPV, with reasonable reserves. Is this possible under normal wx?

We usually carry two-three pax and not too much luggage.
 
Palerider957 said:
Our normal trip is AVL-VNC, we would like to occaisonally do VNC-TEB, or VNC-CLE, VNC-MPV, with reasonable reserves. Is this possible under normal wx?

We usually carry two-three pax and not too much luggage.
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You shouldnt have a problem with most of the legs except for vnc-mpv. Not that you won't make it, it might be tight somedays.
 
I don't want to brag, but I flew LAS-GRR nonstop last summer in a 400A and landed with 1,100lbs fuel.

1433nm in 3+14. That's a 448kt average ground speed.
 
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The Beechjet is referred to as the BeechJUNK for good reason. Nice cabin but terrible performance. Why not look at a CJ2+ or a CJ3?
 
You will be disappointed going from Citations to this thing. Make sure that you do have a glider rating before getting a Beechjet.....could come in handy someday with that thing. Its a cute little plane but its too complicated for what it is, especially when compared to citations.
 
Dr Pepper said:
The Air Force flies them dailey for pilot training, known as the T-1. They seem to be doing just fine. I don't remember the range or any of the specifics since it has been several years since I flew one.
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I have an acquaintance who flies the T1 in the Air Force. Not a comparable operation at all unless you are into low-level nav, bounce patterns and short cross country flights. Apples and oranges.
 
The beechJet, hawker 400. whatever you whant to call it, is a crappy performer "ground hog", it may have a knot or 2 better then the ultra, but you will get much better overall performance and range out of a citation ultra.

Put 4 or more people on it (beechjet) and look what happens to it. put antiice on with an average load and you might as well stay home. of course you put a load on anything and the performance gets worse.

It takes some larger performance hits to the bad side in various situations.

Do a comparison with 4 peope PBI to TEB for all 3 planes.

Also check for take off performance with a load and with a temp of 30+- celceuis or whatever at a sealevel airport, and out of ASE or some other mountain airport. How is the climb gradient to the top of the departure will they be able to hold the minimum all the way up? we have a few beechjets (hawker 400's) and they avoid the mountain airports. Look at coast to coast trips with a load on board 4 poeple or whatever your typical load would be. then look at all seats full and how may fuel stops will it take.
 
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Palerider957 said:
Hello all:

The boss has told me to go out and get a Beechjet. He sat in one and loved the cabin. We have been flying Citations and a Lear 31A.

What are the general impressions of the 400/400A? Relibility, range, etc. etc.? Has the double-engine flamout issue been resolved?

Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

Ok, I don't know if you will listen, but I would steer clear of the Beechjet for the following reasons.

1. Poor performance. If it is hot you are limited, if it is cold and the ice has to come on you are screwed. (You can always ignore the numbers in the book, then it is a great performer)

2. Maintance. I have never seen so much crap break on a airplane of any type in my life. The systems make Frankenstein look easy to put together. Part of the problem IMHO.

3. Fit and finish. The interiors of those things look like they were put together by a six grade art class. Ceesna or Bombarier is much better, or there is no way they could be worse.

4. Gas pig. The jet has old engines on it and loves to burn up fuel. If anyone tells you it has the same engines as the Ultra, then they are wrong. It burns fuel at a impressive rate.

5. Luggage space. There is very little for family of 4 going on vaction with the pilots bags. You can always strap them to the seats, ahh a good time.

6. The Lav. Ok, for being a honey pot, this is the worst designed one on the face of the earth. Heard there are STCs to put a better one in, but haven't dealt with one of those.

7. Flame outs. Ok, the thing has issues, in this dept. Down right scary in my world. Now Raytheon has done some magic and nothing has happened in a while, but who knows.

8. Max Attitude. If you need to climb to the 40's over weather, good luck. If it is ISA plus a few, you are hosed.

I do like the Collins, but that is no reason to buy one of POSs. They ARE cheap, but you do get what you pay for.

I remember a trip from MSP to HPN with 5 or 6 paxs that couldn't be done non-stop, because the anti-ice had to come on and we couldn't make 3.3 with it on. Anyway the owner was pissed, but it didn't matter anyway, because the TR broke on the taxi out. Ultra came in loaded the paxs and away they went, no issues, that is the 400 in a nut shell. Sad little jet.
 
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For what it's worth I am typed in both and could not suggest the BJ over an Ultra Unless you were talking about cost..
 
Ya know I've been flying the BJ for 7 years and its "not" that bad of a plane. But guys just knocking without any facts isn't fair.
 
Thanks for everyone's input. Here is what I'm up against. We have looked at a TON of differen't airplanes, and the owners wife likes the BJ....yes, I know, I know. But this is my cross to bear. They want a nicer (larger) cabin than the Lear or Citation, but don't want to spend more than $3M.

Our normal trip of bouncing around the SE U.S., with occaisonal trips to NE U.S. almost anything should suffice. I just want a decent quaity aircraft with a good dispatch reliability.
 
What are the biggest gripes with the BJ, (aside from double engine flameout!) Range? Fuel burn? Dispatch reliability?
 
You are right..It's not that bad.. The Push to talk on the glare shield is cool and the avionics are sweet and those TR's really stop that thing also nice flat foor egg shaped cabin. But other than that- It is just a cheap option for a jet. There are a lot of them out there so jobs can be plentiful but many owners would rather you throw that book away as looking at the numbers you will be restricted. I have put 5 sets of golf clubs in the nose of an ultra and 5 roller bags in the tail plus crew bags 5 BIG fellas and flown the distance. If I saw that load coming in a BJ I would fist say an explicit like Oh Sheeringa! then try fighting it for 30 mins and then come out all sweaty and pissed off. Then the pax can enjoy thier nice cabin now cramped with stuff oozing out the lav and belted all over the back seats.
They do have a niche-but I just don't think it will fit the OP's needs. After all look at his Original post--the boss sat in one and liked the cabin. Isn't that how Options sold all thier BJ's along with a cheap price? It is not until the owner shows up with his buds the first time only to find a fuel stop is needed. I know he will be very disappointed trying to get from S.FL to Barre VT (you can call it Montpielier-but the airport is in Barre.) in one-then let it get 35C in FL or get to freezing temp in VT. You got the book-do the numbers-I will gladly send the OP my BJ training stuff to show his Boss what reality is..
Dime line-hurry up and quit options so I can see Beavis smile for once.
 
Palerider957 said:
Thanks for everyone's input. Here is what I'm up against. We have looked at a TON of differen't airplanes, and the owners wife likes the BJ....yes, I know, I know. But this is my cross to bear. They want a nicer (larger) cabin than the Lear or Citation, but don't want to spend more than $3M.

Our normal trip of bouncing around the SE U.S., with occaisonal trips to NE U.S. almost anything should suffice. I just want a decent quaity aircraft with a good dispatch reliability.
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If all he is looking at is a cabin..tell him a mid 1970's GIIB is under 3M.
Big cabin and the range almost of the GIII.. Plus you will get a LOT of avtrip point with that guzzler.
 
Palerider957 said:
What are the biggest gripes with the BJ, (aside from double engine flameout!) Range? Fuel burn? Dispatch reliability?
Click to expand...


Besides the biggest one being the dual flameouts-which look at it I already PM'd you on this but the Diamonds and older BJ's have been out for a long time with no issues then all the sudden they fall out of the sky and the fix from the acft mfgr and engine mfgr is engine ice on? WTF that doesn't sound like a fix-it sounds like guess. Range is one if you compare to the Citation family. Dispatch relaibility is a huge issue-if you get one get used to the phrase-"what the F is it doing that for?". The biggest issue is performance in my book. Take a good look at the ice on numbers as well as the HOT numbers as well as brake energy limits. Then get a hold of the new contaminated runway numbers and start planning on looooong runways.
Most of the guys that say it is not that bad of an airplane usually have nothing else to compare it to-so to them it isn't bad. They are also the guys who I learned to fly the BJ with that ignore most of the charts and hated when I got into them and questioned them on how we were going to take off in LAS at a high temp and make our destination? I get the its OK attitude I've done it before-kinda like the times they wanted to take off overweight. They just changed the rules to fit the mission. Just ask a NJ guy who flies more a Ultra crew or a BJ crew? I already know the answer...If he is buying a plane just or the cabin then let him-just warn him in advance that even if a K Car has a sweet new interior it is still a POS.
 
Oh, I almost forgot the dance of the "Mother F%^&#r". If and when you go to training they call it a nose gear pin. However you will name it the above mentioned term. When you are in TEB in the winter with deice fluid all over the ground and you are sitting on an engine plug with a foot on each side of the nose wheel kicking it back and forth shouting at this little pin like a 2 yr old having a tantrum. Then you go inside the FBO to wipe off the glycol you got all over the sides of your shoes and pants. Then you want to go find the nearest Japenese guy and kick him in the teeth for ever allowing such an abomination to be built.
 
Galaxy said:
Oh, I almost forgot the dance of the "Mother F%^&#r". If and when you go to training they call it a nose gear pin. However you will name it the above mentioned term. When you are in TEB in the winter with deice fluid all over the ground and you are sitting on an engine plug with a foot on each side of the nose wheel kicking it back and forth shouting at this little pin like a 2 yr old having a tantrum. Then you go inside the FBO to wipe off the glycol you got all over the sides of your shoes and pants. Then you want to go find the nearest Japenese guy and kick him in the teeth for ever allowing such an abomination to be built.
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Have to agree with this..
 
Galaxy said:
If all he is looking at is a cabin..tell him a mid 1970's GIIB is under 3M.
Big cabin and the range almost of the GIII.. Plus you will get a LOT of avtrip point with that guzzler.
Click to expand...

Funny you bring up a GIIB, because we seriously condisered one. I pushed it off, as I was scared to death of the maintenance bills, recurring AD's, and the new legislation that is looking to ban stage II A/C.
 

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