Becoming a Regional Airline Pilot

[taloft]

I love to fly and I could see no other way of making a living. I would rather be a poor pilot than a rich investment banker. Is that wrong to say? Maybe I am naiive but I guess we are supposed to be at this age.

That is precisely the attitude you're going to need to get past training, instructing and your first few years at a regional. So at least you've got that going for you. I say go for it. It sounds like you know exactly what you're getting into.

 

[Dave Benjamin]

My advice to anyone who really wants to do this job is to find a good PUBLIC university or college with a flight department. I've flown with several San Jose State grads and they've all impressed me. I'm sure there are some other state schools with good aviation programs. The private schools like ERAU are not worth the extra money.

 

[Dave Benjamin]

I would rather be a poor pilot than a rich investment banker. Is that wrong to say? Maybe I am naiive but I guess we are supposed to be at this age.

Right now I am single and don't have a lot of responsibility (except my education), but I guess if I have a family one day it will be hard. How do some of you guys deal with the family issues? I realize it is hard but I know some people make it work.

Thanks for the insight.

The problem is once you have a family and a mortgage there is a neverending supply of kids willing to do your job for free. Wages will always be lower in the regionals. Once people spend some time in the industry their outlook changes and they become a bit more practical. If you want to do something fun when you're young that doesn't pay well try being a ski bum or boat bum. I've been both of those and that beats any job.

 

[JSky26]

Dave,

How long were you bummin' till you realized you couldn't do it anymore?

I do attend a collegiate program so I feel good that I'm not wasting my money by going to Riddle or DCA (even though it is still expensive as hell...I can't imagine how some of those kids finance that). The little money I make on the side is playing drums in shitty ass bars on the weekends...its not much but it is a great time...couldn't take that away from me

 

[WMUSIGPI]

This guy is pretty funny. This was posted at 11:16 today. Take a look at the post in the Aviation Mechanics forum at 15:38 TODAY - a mere 4 hours and 22 minutes later. Wow we must be some unbelievably disgruntled pilots to be able to turn a newbie this fast. That must be some kind of record!!! All said - it's probably for his/her best.

Disgruntled... naw that's for Post Office employees. We are far beyond that point.

 

[Ilikeairplanes]

Be careful what you wish for! I wouldnt recommend this career to anyone. I love flying, but I wish I had a good paying, steady, 9-5 job with stablity. I live like a nomad and have pennies. Maybe someday I will have a nice 75k a year corporate job flying. But I will be 35 years old. Most of my friends are in their late 20's with nice houses, wifes, and cars.

 

[av8er2]

You can get to one without spending all that money. And you can get to one spending all that money.

You can get all your ratings on your own for less, instruct a little, and then apply when you have the minimums.

The regionals will have a hard time getting qualified pilots for a few years so it won't be too tough to get on.

I would not spend a ton to get into this business.

Have a backup and don't go into big debt to get here.

It is fun but I would be careful.

Good luck.

 

[freeflyer14]

Have a backup /quote]

Best piece of advice you will ever hear about going into this business...

I unfortunately got an A&P as my backup to flying thinking it was the way to go, if I could do it again, I would obviously get into something totally unrelated to aviation.

 

[Flying Ninja]

I agree with all those folks regarding going to a flight academy or an accelrated school. I went to CAPT and am now 3+ months on the streets trying to land a job. I pretty much spent all my money and now I'm dead broke. I can't even work for a regional because the student loan payments monthly is horrific and I won't be making enough money to eat and have a roof over my head. I'm going back to my old career path where it's stable.

 

[JustaNumber]

Be careful what you wish for! I wouldnt recommend this career to anyone. I love flying, but I wish I had a good paying, steady, 9-5 job with stablity. I live like a nomad and have pennies. Maybe someday I will have a nice 75k a year corporate job flying. But I will be 35 years old. Most of my friends are in their late 20's with nice houses, wifes, and cars.

I'm in my upper 30's, and I'm still waiting for the nice houses, wives, and cars! (Okay, I do have a nice wife, who is standing over my shoulder right now).

 

[Bringupthebird]

So you're flipping through some magazines and you see an ad that says you can be a pilot in 6 months? How good a job do you suppose that could be? I haven't found too many ads saying, "Become a neurosurgeon in 6 months!" " I went from a dead-end job to Cardiologist and you can too!"

Realize that your entire career and quality of life from training to "retirement" will depend on access to easy credit, since you won't really make much money. Take a break from the drums for a weekend and seriously think about how practical it will be to live on $40,000 or less for the rest of your life. The wages you see today, as bad as they are, are likely to be the highest they will ever be. If you look at this job realistically and throw out all the nostalgia and stereotypes about the Captains with the Harleys and the sailboats, and realize what you are getting into is a job with about the same salary and benefits as a department manager at K-Mart, then you may escape the disillusionment that many here are facing.

The FedEx guy likes his job and for good reason: his company is in a business with sufficient margins to pay him AND make a profit. Most airlines are not like that and they are making up their revenue shortfall by taking it from the employees. They are not changing their business model to make more money, they are merely adjusting the expectations and payroll to accomodate the failed business plan and hoping for cheap fuel someday.

Life is only so long, so do what you love. But love something loveable.

 

[taters]

Working ramp will give you a feel

I worked ramp until I graduated college only to get furloughed!! thats right a furloughed ramper but I also got an upclose view of what life would be like a s an RJ pilot....I am now in the insurance industry saving money (32k 1st yr)to finish off my ratings and an AFB aero club. I was one week away from going to ATP with financing in hand and told them screw it. I can finish off for 20k at an local aeroclub(offut AFB) versus 50k which turns into 100k once you get the loan paid back. My point is that I miss this industry very much but I will NOT get into a rush to BOW DOWN to mediocracy!!! (i.e Mesa..etc) so I am taking my sweet A$$ time ,I would rather CFI for 5 years and then "upgrade" to single pilot ops versus regional flying right now in a CRJ with low time. To all you aspiring pilots thinking about an academy, remember there is no rush, you probaly have no real concept of what life will be like as an RJ pilot. DO YOUR RESEARCH!! Many of you will probably change your mind, and for those of you who have it in your blood, (God Help us all) do everything you can to bring this industry back......STOP FLYING FOR TURDS INSTEAD OF DOLLARS.... I know its a cool jet but trust me you wont care after two week s when you get that 1st paycheck..and you want to vomit....All of this comes from my observations of this industry as a ramper.....so there you have it .

 

[Dave Benjamin]

Dave,

How long were you bummin' till you realized you couldn't do it anymore?

too long. way too long. now i'm playing catchup so i can start doing it again on a more permanent basis.

 

[ROJO]

MAPD a good option

I went through the MAPD (Mesa) ab initio program a few years ago and had a lot of success with it. It's a hard program and somewhat costly (my total flight costs were about $36K), but if you graduate with a high enough GPA, they'll interview you for a job. Most grads get hired. I went into the Dash-8 right out of school. It was very tough but it can be done if you work hard.
I think you'll hear pretty much the same thing from any MAPD grad. We were all very happy with the program (in my class at least). Most of my classmates have moved on to the majors (SWA, AirTran, and Alaska).

The FBO/instructing route is also good, but those guys didn't seem to have an edge in ground school or sim training at the airline. 50% of my Dash-8 new hire class washed out, and all of them were CFI types from Mom and Pop FBOs.

Again, it all depends on you, your preferences, and how you learn best. You have to be very disciplined and willing to dedicate your entire life to training as you are working your way toward that first job.

Regional airline flying is tough and the pay is low. The airline industry is hurting right now. It's a hard life sometimes, so do a gut check and make sure you REALLY love flying. If your gut still says GO, then set your goals and go do what it takes to acheive them.

Best of luck to you!

 

[Flying Ninja]

Regional airline flying is tough and the pay is low. The airline industry is hurting right now. It's a hard life sometimes, so do a gut check and make sure you REALLY love flying. If your gut still says GO, then set your goals and go do what it takes to acheive them.

I would do more than a gut check. Do a financial review of what you bring in and what you need to pay out. Also keep in mind the life style of a regional pilot as well. I read a lot of people within pistol range screaming about quality of life. I'd find out what the screaming is all about before you decide on anything.

 

[GARFF]

Its a better direction to become a dentist or an accountant or somethin. Then you will be able to afford to fly for fun...

 

[Kugelblitz]

Getting a Regional Job

Yeah, it really isn't all that terribly hard. Just sign up and agree to work for no money. No real experience necessary. My first year at Comair under their industry leading contract GROSSED 15 thousand. I could have made more working a kiosk at the CVG airport. This after I made $110K the year before with AA. But I desperately needed a job with medical benefits so there I was.

I am now in my first year at CAL and may make 30K. One of the problems is that there are to many young pilots who only care about flying jets and laying flight attendants. They don't mind living 5 people to a 2 bedroom apartment because it reminds them of living in the dorm at the college they just left. Just pay them enough to buy beer and sate their imature egos by posting signs in flight ops like "Through these doors walk the worlds best pilots" and life is good.

I can't recommend anyone to get into this business today. The economics are such that salaries and benefits will continue to experience significant downward pressure because the blood sucking public wants cheap tickets and doesn't care if it results in an entire industry of working poor. I know that is strikingly harsh rhetoric, but it is for the most part true. I am 40 years old with 2 children, and feel very little security looking forward.

When one is young and flying a Beech 1900 for $13/hr, one doesn't see the long view. I remember those days well, and the pride I felt looking at that "big" airplane and thinking, 'Wow, I really made it'. The only problem is those low wage and benefit expectations will follow one throughout ones progression. The notion that one will just uprgrade visa vie Captancy or to a 'major' airline to better pay is fools gold.

United for example is better than Mesa, but it is true that purgatory is better than hell. It doesn't mean that one got a good deal.

The ubiquitesness of pilots from low paying carriers like Chitaqua and Mesa at the 'low cost large carriers' is no accident. The management of these airlines know that these people are conditioned to cruddy work rules and low pay and expectations, and bank on that attitude when they negotiate with their respective pilot groups. Hence, high management pay and low labor pay. That is how you end up with Jet Blue pilots who think they have this wonderful deal with crap pay,crap work rules, no labor protection to speak of, and getting to re-interview for their job every 5 years. Of course they will tell you through their blue Kool-aide stainded lips that this is all just a formality. Lets' see if it stays that way as labor costs continue to creep up for them.

Add to that that your government which is totally bought and paid for by big business is about to let a foriegn owned air carrier into the US and force wages downward even more. Additionally, NWA airlines is exploring the option of having cheaper foreign crews fly some of their international flights ie outsourcing. All this with record numbers of furloughees out on the street.

Sorry to be so negative, but times are tough, and if you have a choice, think long and hard. Don't end up 40 years old with a family of 3, endlessly starting over. I only have the 10,000 hours in my logbook to market myself with, this is all I have ever done. My degree is literally in flying airplanes. When I was 25, I thought that was all I would ever need. Then I grew up and found out I was wrong. If you can avoid that road, do it.

Good luck-all.

 

[Reebo]

Rack Him!

 

[Motive Flow]

Epic!

Poor regional pay.....We'll talk about that.:laugh:

 

[Murdoughnut]

I'm just curious - what are the flight benefits of working for a regional? Do you have a free flight pass that allows you to fly wherever you want/whenever you want? Is there an opportunity to take your spouse on free flights? I know it may seem like a stupid question, but my girlfriend and I rack up close to $2,000 a year in flights (domestic). It doesn't make up for the crappy pay, but is that a "benefit" one should consider?

 

[Flying Ninja]

I'm just curious - what are the flight benefits of working for a regional? Do you have a free flight pass that allows you to fly wherever you want/whenever you want? Is there an opportunity to take your spouse on free flights? I know it may seem like a stupid question, but my girlfriend and I rack up close to $2,000 a year in flights (domestic). It doesn't make up for the crappy pay, but is that a "benefit" one should consider?

Do yourself and your girlfriend a favor and stay at your higher paying job than the regionals. $2000 is nothing when you're making more than $30k a year (per individual) compared to making $18K to start with travel benefits. Cheap flights are easy to find. Save the aggrevation of going through flight training, packing in the hours over God knows how many years to be competitive spending enough money to buy yourself a degree from Harvard so that you can make $18k and get travel benefits. Doesn't make sense.

 

[Murdoughnut]

I see your point ... unfortunately, I make $50k a year right now and spend nearly all of it on my high maintenance girlfriend. It's funny how sometimes the more you make, the more you spend. Hell, I could at least be broke and doing something I love. Then when she whines about wanting to go out for an expensive dinner twice a week, I can honestly say we don't have the money for it. I dunno, I hear people talk about the crappy QOL in the regionals, but to escape my woman a few nights a week seems worth staying in a crappy hotel. Hmmm ... maybe I have some relationship issues

 

[Flying Ninja]

...I make $50k a year right now and spend nearly all of it on my high maintenance girlfriend. It's funny how sometimes the more you make, the more you spend. Hell, I could at least be broke and doing something I love. Then when she whines about wanting to go out for an expensive dinner twice a week, I can honestly say we don't have the money for it. I dunno, I hear people talk about the crappy QOL in the regionals, but to escape my woman a few nights a week seems worth staying in a crappy hotel. Hmmm ... maybe I have some relationship issues

LOL...man, talk about dejavue...I completely understand the high maintenance girlfriend. My suggestion (and of course I'm not telling you to do) is to slowly cut back on the spendings on her. Chicks will drain a bank account faster than you can say V1. I thought as you did that I can be broke and do something I love. Then I found myself broke, without a girlfriend, with debt, and no flying job. If you need time away from your honey, get some guy nights into the week. Best wishes, and here's something for you to think over:

http://www.mitchfatel.com/muffinjoke.html

 

[pkober]

Kugel,

You should be happy and consider yourself lucky to be furloughed from AA, you TWA untermensh!

Liven the dream, spending days away from the family and sleeping six to a room.

CLAMABKE

 

[SBD]

I am curently employed at one of the pilot mill schools. I'm very close to interviewing with a regional. If I had to do it over I would have never gotten into this business(airline side). I love flying and I hope to continue to do it for the rest of my life. But from what I hear on these boards and the outlook of life at a regional it makes me wonder "What the Frick have I gotten myself into?"

 

[pkober]

Don't let anyone on this board ever talk you out of doing what you want. This job has down sides but overall it's been good to me. Your first year sucks, while junior, but than it gets better. The problem is getting stuck in a cycle where all you ever are is a first year pilot at an airline.

CLAMBAKE

 

[Kugelblitz]

Yavull

Don't let anyone on this board ever talk you out of doing what you want. This job has down sides but overall it's been good to me. Your first year sucks, while junior, but than it gets better. The problem is getting stuck in a cycle where all you ever are is a first year pilot at an airline.

CLAMBAKE

Maybe some day you can get recalled to AA and then life will really be good!
Sieg Heil!

Remember, TWA brought AA no value, and I am sure a few hundred AA pilots flying out of STL, oops, SLT would second that. They would much rather be furloughed. But hey, after all, they had every career expectation of flying out of St. Louis so they are in their 'rightful place' right?

Careful, I know where you live!!!!!

 

[Bringupthebird]

I'm just curious - what are the flight benefits of working for a regional? Do you have a free flight pass that allows you to fly wherever you want/whenever you want? Is there an opportunity to take your spouse on free flights? I know it may seem like a stupid question, but my girlfriend and I rack up close to $2,000 a year in flights (domestic). It doesn't make up for the crappy pay, but is that a "benefit" one should consider?

Actually you get to sign up standby wherever and whenver you want. Hmm, leave a 50K/year job and marry a high-maintenance girlfriend so you can earn 15K/yr and watch both the full flight and the disappointed bride push back just when you were hoping to get on (the flight, I mean ) You'll have to work on selling the HR people on your judgement.

 

[pkober]

A ray of sunshine.

Kugal,

Shouldn't you be studying or shining some AA pilots shoes?

 

[dogismycopilot]

Research ATA (Airline Training Academy) and TAB Express (Airline and flight school). Buyer beware! If it is too good to be true, it probably is. These schools stole the lives, dreams, and money of many looking for the 'fast track' to an airline career.