Bad news for NWA pilots and pilots in general

[mdanno808]

For the junior guys, (you know, the ones who will be out on furlough for forever and a day, and then return to fly for peanuts, and no benefit's) I don't think the decision to strike will be a tough one. For the senior guys, who are looking to retire in a few years, it's a different story. I agree that it is time for old Duane to get off his a$$, stop the tough talk, and do something. He should be all over the media raising a stink about this BS. Hell, he should be out on the street conrner raving to anyone who will listen.

My bet is that the FA's will strike.

It is very possible that a strike will occur. If the judge orders the scope changes at the end of the 51 day period, then the NWA pilots might engage in self-help. Of course, that will probably mean the end of Northwest Airlines, but management will have lost. It's a tough decision for the NWA MEC and pilot group to make.

 

[320AV8R]

Hey 320AV8R,
TY Webb is correct. I followed up one of these complaints for some JBlue guys and our JS coordinator is in a position where he can lecture the few crackpot Capt's--but can not enforce any action. He really does try hard to bring them back from the "dark side" but he has had no luck..I guess the handfull of of "bad seeds" in question are targeting the JB, Air Tran, Spirit folks.
Hey Ty,
There are a bunch of folks here (320AV8R included) who are apalled and embarassed to work at the same company as these "vigalante captains". We will keep spreading the word about this in an effort to halt it. I can tell you that in almost 8 years I have never flown with a capt that denied anyone the JS.

Deli-

I fly 80 to 85 hours each month, and carry offline jumpseaters all the time. The ONLY denial was a SABENA guy about 7 years ago. We called the CP to see if there was anything we could do to make it work, but there wasn't.

Ty-

Like Deli said, our J/S coordinator is a real good guy. He WILL follow up with a phone call, etc to the Captain in question, but can't mandate the Captain carry anyone. My advice woud be to go through your J/S guy. If enough complaints come in about a certain Captain, maybe that will produce a change.

I can't think of anyone who would deny a J/S out of spite, etc.... Everyone on the list, (& it's quite lengthy), shoud be able to ride if space is avaiable.
This includes AirTran, JB, Spirit, etc.....

Every company has their 5% of a-holes. Try not to judge the entire NWA pilot group based on the actions of our 5%. My appologies to anyone who has encountered one of them.

320AV8R

 

[pilotyip]

Again all the management blame and bashing, who has a plan to keep the pilot pay at the 2000 level? Raise fares?, again Air Tran, spirit, JB, and SWA set the the low fare level and they are profitable airlines. If fares rasie, less people fly, then you need fewer airplanes and pilots. Does anyone have an answer other than blame management and not except the fact that revenue will not support 2000 pay rates?

 

[castle bravo]

"Every company has their 5% of a-holes. Try not to judge the entire NWA pilot group based on the actions of our 5%. My appologies to anyone who has encountered one of them."

320AV8R[/quote]



My guess is that most of these 5%'ers are MEM, and especially MSP based. To anyone having a problem, please try to get base info (along with all other pertinent data) and post it.
This is HIGHLY embarrassing activity, and every effort should be expended to have it stopped.

 

[Diesel-9]

5%? Bet it is a fraction of 1%. I have never seen or heard of anyone on the list being denied. Out of MSP I can't count the times we take two (or more) offline guys. Many times a non-rev pilot will ride jumpseat to get another guy in the back. The FEW exceptions are from a couple guys. My experience has been with DAL in the past. I have been denied twice in two years. I didn't go bashing the entire group for one nut......

 

[castle bravo]

"I didn't go bashing the entire group for one nut......[/quote]"


I agree. The clowns who are reportedly doing this need to be isolated and exposed ASAP.
My comments about MEM and MSP revolve around the fact that a proportionately higher percentage of DTW guys are commuters themselves, thus a DTW guy giving a difficult time to another jumpseater defies rational thought.

 

[320AV8R]

My comments about MEM and MSP revolve around the fact that a proportionately higher percentage of DTW guys are commuters themselves, thus a DTW guy giving a difficult time to another jumpseater defies rational thought.

CB-

Irregardless of their base or aircraft affiliation......the practice should stop.

320AV8R

 

[Green]

Again all the management blame and bashing, who has a plan to keep the pilot pay at the 2000 level? Raise fares?, again Air Tran, spirit, JB, and SWA set the the low fare level and they are profitable airlines. If fares rasie, less people fly, then you need fewer airplanes and pilots. Does anyone have an answer other than blame management and not except the fact that revenue will not support 2000 pay rates?

Maybe a college degree isn't such a useless thing after all.....

 

[pilotyip]

Green it depends upon how long it has been since you used it. A pilot who did not go to college got a 4-yr. jump on his career over the 4-yr degree guy. Maybe that four-year jump has enough seniority to keep his job when the 4-yr degree guy gets laid off? It is a possibility.

 

[Lear70]

I'm pretty sure Green was being sarcastic given the number of grammatical and syntax errors in the referenced pilot's post.

That is one thing I've noticed lately at the regional level - most new-hires are YOUNG and have NOT been through college. They then do college by correspondence while they're currently flying.

After going the traditional non-millitary route, I sometimes find myself in envy of a 26 year old CA who IS SENIOR TO ME and has the same flight time I do at 34 and, by the time he's 29, will have more PIC than I have now.

Competition gets more and more fierce for those coveted major slots and, between military pilots (who have the degree anyway) and these wonder-kids, it makes it harder and harder to justify the traditional non-PFT route... no wonder so many people go that direction.

Not to mention making the diffrence when displacements and furloughs come along.

 

[ForgedBlade]

After going the traditional non-millitary route, I sometimes find myself in envy of a 26 year old CA who IS SENIOR TO ME and has the same flight time I do at 34 and, by the time he's 29, will have more PIC than I have now.

Don't feel too bad Rich, there have been plenty of 23-25 year-old's in the new CAL classed as well. Many don't have anything but a Commercial with some SIC turbine, but they have those connections! It's that way everywhere. Hope you guys are well.

 

[Lear70]

I know... wouldn't you know that all the connections I cultivated were at USAirways, United, and Delta... *sigh*

I know a bunch of guys at jetBlue but that d*mn computer won't select me! :lol:

We're doing alright over here... They're displacing 28 Captains again, talking about furloughs come January. The 15 CRJ's they parked are on List "B" for aircraft proposed to go back to the Leasing company. Line averages in MEM are 11.4 days off, 75 hours. Other than that, it's business as usual, just waiting for NWA's next move.

Good news is lots of guys and gals are getting out of here to AirTran, FedEx, and jetBlue. How's things with you? I see the CAL F/O in your signature, CONGRATS! Glad you were able to land after the whole ATA deal!

I'm actually off until November 9th, wife having a baby this week!

Keep in touch!

 

[GogglesPisano]

Again all the management blame and bashing, who has a plan to keep the pilot pay at the 2000 level? Raise fares?, again Air Tran, spirit, JB, and SWA set the the low fare level and they are profitable airlines. If fares rasie, less people fly, then you need fewer airplanes and pilots. Does anyone have an answer other than blame management and not except the fact that revenue will not support 2000 pay rates?

I think a lot of resentment is due to the fact that these CEO's are giving themselves bonuses and securing their retirements while bending everyone else over a table.

 

[whymeworry?]

For the junior guys, (you know, the ones who will be out on furlough for forever and a day, and then return to fly for peanuts, and no benefit's) I don't think the decision to strike will be a tough one. For the senior guys, who are looking to retire in a few years, it's a different story. I agree that it is time for old Duane to get off his a$$, stop the tough talk, and do something. He should be all over the media raising a stink about this BS. Hell, he should be out on the street conrner raving to anyone who will listen.

My bet is that the FA's will strike.

I completely agree with mdanno808 about Duane here. I have sent letters to every news organization in this country about the plight of labor in an industry where mgmt takes millions off the table for itself. No reply yet from the media. There is a HUGE story here. From how greedy OPEC is, to how indifferent the Bush admin is (and we all know how the media loves to go after the Bush admin, here's their chance to strike again), to how corrupt mgmt is. Yet the media refuses to catch on or pay any mind. This is where the big "duane" comes in. As a leader, he ought to recognize the desperate situation our industry is in and get some attentiuon drawn to the matter by pounding down the doors of the mainstream media to pay heed to this story. Instead of using "any and all available resources", to remind the public that managements are manipulating congress and the courts while they get even richer, the only place you read duane comments is in the monthly ALPA rag or any other ALPA-influenced media. The mainstream media doesn't get the message. Without the media on board we are destined to be viewed as the reason for this industry's problems, which we all know is not the case. I call on Duane to use the clout of ALPA and the labor moverment in general to bring this issue to the forefront of the public's mind. How come a lowly cog in the wheel like me recognizes this and Duane's team doesn't?


Some say the public doesn't care. I beg to differ. It's more like the public doesn't have a clue about what we are all facing. When you tell someone your pension got cancelled, or how you just took a 20-50% paycut (while the cost of living is risng for everyone) they wonder why you haven't gone postal yet. I think everyone relates with being taken to the cleaners by mgmt. And they grow even more concerned if they were given a true appreciation of the level of responibility we all possess as cockpit crewmembers. The public just needs to be educated about why pilots are not part of the problem, it's not that they don't care. I afraid the only medium that can educate the public is the mainstream media.

If pilot pay is the problem, then take a look at JB, SW, AT. Their pilots all make a pretty good living, so don't tell me pilot pay is sinking the airlines. Poor management is sinking the airlines. As far back as 10 years ago I use to ask why US carriers don't use their assets more overseas. All you have to do is travel to Africa, Asia or China to see how much incredible demand is out there. We have the largest fleets in the world and our management's failed to recognize the opportunities outside US and Europe. When managements would have Q&A for employees I use to ask why we don't do more international (and we do quite a bit already at my airline). I was always dismissed as someone asking a completely irrelevant question. Only now are they pursuing Int'l flying to "save the airline". A little late, eh? Look at EK, do you think DXB is large enough to support all the wide-bodys they fly? It aint. What about BAH, or DOH? Both their carriers have numerous A380s on order. Their countries are smaller than the city I live in. Obviously they aren't flying anywhere but international. They buy the equipment then go anywhere in the world to turn that equipment into a money machine. Isn't that what an airplane is for? Going places? The further you fly, the more profitable you are. It took way too long for US airline managements to recognize this. And now with competition from these other overseas carriers it's probably too late.

Regarding NW, NO WAY will management lose their precious Asian routes to a strike. NO WAY! I hate to say it but it's once again up to the pilots on this one. They will have no choice but to threaten a strike. I belive there may be a lot of capitulation on this one though because the senior pilots will want to save the last shreds of their career. The junior pilots will gladly call managements bluff. Hopefully the senior pilots will get a clue and recognize that this is a battle they must win or they will be next. Look at NW's proposal. They wish to wet-lease 10% of their international routes to other carriers READ: outsourcing pilot labor. So the senior guys aren't so insulated. NW mgmt must be stopped this time around or it will be the beginning of the end for that pilot group.

My call on this one: IF the pilots move to strike, managment cuts a deal in the 11th hour. I would be my career on this one. But it's up to the pilots to play hardball. Of course, if Duane doesn't get a clue and remind the media how pilots aren't the problem, all mgmt will have to do is get on CNBC and tell Wall Street how greedy mere employees are.

 

[ForgedBlade]

I know... wouldn't you know that all the connections I cultivated were at USAirways, United, and Delta... *sigh*

I know a bunch of guys at jetBlue but that d*mn computer won't select me! :lol:

We're doing alright over here... They're displacing 28 Captains again, talking about furloughs come January. The 15 CRJ's they parked are on List "B" for aircraft proposed to go back to the Leasing company. Line averages in MEM are 11.4 days off, 75 hours. Other than that, it's business as usual, just waiting for NWA's next move.

Good news is lots of guys and gals are getting out of here to AirTran, FedEx, and jetBlue. How's things with you? I see the CAL F/O in your signature, CONGRATS! Glad you were able to land after the whole ATA deal!

I'm actually off until November 9th, wife having a baby this week!

Keep in touch!

I guess this constitues a high-jack of this thread, sorry guys. Congrats on the new one Rich, that is #2 now? Hope all is well on that end, but it sure sounds like it!

Sorry to hear about things at PCL. I did get lucky after ATA with CAL (I hope!!!!!) and you can shoot me if I tell you I turned down an interview with jetBlue. Damn, I hope that wasn't a mistake!

Drive on and hope you guys persevere! JG