Bad news for NWA pilots and pilots in general

[PCL_128]

Go on strike......

Duanne has spewed all this rhetoric about enough is enough, time to change course, we've given management all we can, blah blah blah blah. It's enough to make you want to puke. Management finally understands that we are a spineless union that will give into anything in order to keep a few scraps. It's time we collectively stand up and regain some dignity.


The fact that NWA mgt even feels like they have a chance with this proposal tells volumes about how far Alpa has fallen. It is past time to get some new blood in Alpa national.

It is very possible that a strike will occur. If the judge orders the scope changes at the end of the 51 day period, then the NWA pilots might engage in self-help. Of course, that will probably mean the end of Northwest Airlines, but management will have lost. It's a tough decision for the NWA MEC and pilot group to make.

 

[Green]

A strike very well might not be the end of NWa. Do you think Mgt would let you guys stay on strike for more than a few days? Mgt has a fudiciary responsibility to do what is in the best interest of the company. Sure they can weather a strike by the mechanics but pilots walking would shut the company down. I think they are just trying to see how much they can get out of you guys with all the doom and gloom fear tactics. After years of concessionary contracts pilots in general are resigned to agree to just about anything.

 

[320AV8R]

I am sure some of those tough-talking NWA pilots who like to give our pilots a ration of grief when they ask for a jumpseat ride would never take a deal like this. . . .

Ty-

I'm not sure if your unfounded disdain for NW pilots results in this flamebait, or if you have a valid concern.

If you have any hard evidence, such as dates, names, flight numbers, etc....PM me and I will forward it to our Jumpseat Coordinator. I know he will follow-up immediately and I can forward you his information.

I have only seen ONE PILOT denied the jumpseat at NW, and that's because his company was NOT on the approved list. (Not even close).

ALL AirTran pilots are more than welcome to ride any NW flight, if a seat exists. If any problems are encountered, report the incident immediately to your J/S coordinator.

320AV8R

 

[Ty Webb]

Ty-

I'm not sure if your unfounded disdain for NW pilots results in this flamebait, or if you have a valid concern.

If you have any hard evidence, such as dates, names, flight numbers, etc....PM me and I will forward it to our Jumpseat Coordinator. I know he will follow-up immediately and I can forward you his information.

This issue has been covered on this board several times. I have provided name, employee number, date and flight numbers to you or one of your fellow employees with a similar screen name in the past. I have flown with denied pilots, and I have seen the letters from our people to your people. Ask your MEM C.P. about it. They are aware of it. It has happened quite a few times over the past few years, and it continues to happen.

 

[Deli Guy]

Hey 320AV8R,
TY Webb is correct. I followed up one of these complaints for some JBlue guys and our JS coordinator is in a position where he can lecture the few crackpot Capt's--but can not enforce any action. He really does try hard to bring them back from the "dark side" but he has had no luck..I guess the handfull of of "bad seeds" in question are targeting the JB, Air Tran, Spirit folks.
Hey Ty,
There are a bunch of folks here (320AV8R included) who are apalled and embarassed to work at the same company as these "vigalante captains". We will keep spreading the word about this in an effort to halt it. I can tell you that in almost 8 years I have never flown with a capt that denied anyone the JS.

 

[Mr Hat]

How exactly would ALPA be screwing up on this? This will be imposed by a BK judge. How do you propose we stop it? Any constructive ideas, or just more mindless ALPA bashing?

Your right, I am sorry. ALPA should just let this one go.

For the record, I am not an ALPA basher. I would hope though that they would at least try to stop this from happening...they are a union right? Made to protect it's pilots? If this were allowed to happen, MANY NWA pilots would lose their jobs then the spiral starts....the other majors will seek scope restrictions to be lifted...more major airline pilots out of work. The regional pilots will be stuck at the regionals forever, the major guys who lost their jobs will be their first officers. The next phase is "well if we can pay 100 seat guys regional wages, we can pay 150 seat aircraft regional wages" and so on and so fourth.

This happened once on a smaller scale, when the MEC's allowed regional airlines to fly 50 seat jets. It will get worse. Do I have any proposals on how to stop it? No, I am not on full time trip loss, that's why I pay ALPA TO PROTECT MY A$$. Your avatar is an anti-rjdc logo.....you should be louder than me on this subject, I am a regional jet pilot saying that I want ALPA to protect scope clauses. Pilots are in trouble, our jobs and security are directly at risk....ALPA needs to work on this. Can't touch the scope being lifted because it was imposed...fine find another angle, through this new so called airline that will supposidly be a union shop. At the very least, try to get those airplanes on the NWA seniority list AT "regional" pay....fix the pay later but don't lose the flying. Tired of politicians and their loud speeches but throw their hands in the air when things get tough.

 

[Ty Webb]

Thanks for your message. We AirTran guys pride ourselves on working whatever mojo we can to get all commuting pilots home, and will continue to do so for all of our industry brothers. I guess the best thing about these turds we are talking about is that we don't have to fly with them and listen to thier particular brand of B.S.

Thanks again . . . .

Fraternally,

Ty Webb

 

[Ty Webb]

Thanks for your message. We AirTran guys pride ourselves on working whatever mojo we can to get all commuting pilots home, and will continue to do so for all of our industry brothers. I guess the best thing about these turds we are talking about is that we don't have to fly with them and listen to thier particular brand of B.S.

Thanks again . . . .

Fraternally,

Ty Webb

 

[Ty Webb]

No idea why this double-posted . .. . . . . .

 

[Ty Webb]

Wtfo?

 

[mdanno808]

For the junior guys, (you know, the ones who will be out on furlough for forever and a day, and then return to fly for peanuts, and no benefit's) I don't think the decision to strike will be a tough one. For the senior guys, who are looking to retire in a few years, it's a different story. I agree that it is time for old Duane to get off his a$$, stop the tough talk, and do something. He should be all over the media raising a stink about this BS. Hell, he should be out on the street conrner raving to anyone who will listen.

My bet is that the FA's will strike.

It is very possible that a strike will occur. If the judge orders the scope changes at the end of the 51 day period, then the NWA pilots might engage in self-help. Of course, that will probably mean the end of Northwest Airlines, but management will have lost. It's a tough decision for the NWA MEC and pilot group to make.

 

[320AV8R]

Hey 320AV8R,
TY Webb is correct. I followed up one of these complaints for some JBlue guys and our JS coordinator is in a position where he can lecture the few crackpot Capt's--but can not enforce any action. He really does try hard to bring them back from the "dark side" but he has had no luck..I guess the handfull of of "bad seeds" in question are targeting the JB, Air Tran, Spirit folks.
Hey Ty,
There are a bunch of folks here (320AV8R included) who are apalled and embarassed to work at the same company as these "vigalante captains". We will keep spreading the word about this in an effort to halt it. I can tell you that in almost 8 years I have never flown with a capt that denied anyone the JS.

Deli-

I fly 80 to 85 hours each month, and carry offline jumpseaters all the time. The ONLY denial was a SABENA guy about 7 years ago. We called the CP to see if there was anything we could do to make it work, but there wasn't.

Ty-

Like Deli said, our J/S coordinator is a real good guy. He WILL follow up with a phone call, etc to the Captain in question, but can't mandate the Captain carry anyone. My advice woud be to go through your J/S guy. If enough complaints come in about a certain Captain, maybe that will produce a change.

I can't think of anyone who would deny a J/S out of spite, etc.... Everyone on the list, (& it's quite lengthy), shoud be able to ride if space is avaiable.
This includes AirTran, JB, Spirit, etc.....

Every company has their 5% of a-holes. Try not to judge the entire NWA pilot group based on the actions of our 5%. My appologies to anyone who has encountered one of them.

320AV8R

 

[pilotyip]

Again all the management blame and bashing, who has a plan to keep the pilot pay at the 2000 level? Raise fares?, again Air Tran, spirit, JB, and SWA set the the low fare level and they are profitable airlines. If fares rasie, less people fly, then you need fewer airplanes and pilots. Does anyone have an answer other than blame management and not except the fact that revenue will not support 2000 pay rates?

 

[castle bravo]

"Every company has their 5% of a-holes. Try not to judge the entire NWA pilot group based on the actions of our 5%. My appologies to anyone who has encountered one of them."

320AV8R[/quote]



My guess is that most of these 5%'ers are MEM, and especially MSP based. To anyone having a problem, please try to get base info (along with all other pertinent data) and post it.
This is HIGHLY embarrassing activity, and every effort should be expended to have it stopped.

 

[Diesel-9]

5%? Bet it is a fraction of 1%. I have never seen or heard of anyone on the list being denied. Out of MSP I can't count the times we take two (or more) offline guys. Many times a non-rev pilot will ride jumpseat to get another guy in the back. The FEW exceptions are from a couple guys. My experience has been with DAL in the past. I have been denied twice in two years. I didn't go bashing the entire group for one nut......

 

[castle bravo]

"I didn't go bashing the entire group for one nut......[/quote]"


I agree. The clowns who are reportedly doing this need to be isolated and exposed ASAP.
My comments about MEM and MSP revolve around the fact that a proportionately higher percentage of DTW guys are commuters themselves, thus a DTW guy giving a difficult time to another jumpseater defies rational thought.

 

[320AV8R]

My comments about MEM and MSP revolve around the fact that a proportionately higher percentage of DTW guys are commuters themselves, thus a DTW guy giving a difficult time to another jumpseater defies rational thought.

CB-

Irregardless of their base or aircraft affiliation......the practice should stop.

320AV8R

 

[Green]

Again all the management blame and bashing, who has a plan to keep the pilot pay at the 2000 level? Raise fares?, again Air Tran, spirit, JB, and SWA set the the low fare level and they are profitable airlines. If fares rasie, less people fly, then you need fewer airplanes and pilots. Does anyone have an answer other than blame management and not except the fact that revenue will not support 2000 pay rates?

Maybe a college degree isn't such a useless thing after all.....

 

[pilotyip]

Green it depends upon how long it has been since you used it. A pilot who did not go to college got a 4-yr. jump on his career over the 4-yr degree guy. Maybe that four-year jump has enough seniority to keep his job when the 4-yr degree guy gets laid off? It is a possibility.

 

[Lear70]

I'm pretty sure Green was being sarcastic given the number of grammatical and syntax errors in the referenced pilot's post.

That is one thing I've noticed lately at the regional level - most new-hires are YOUNG and have NOT been through college. They then do college by correspondence while they're currently flying.

After going the traditional non-millitary route, I sometimes find myself in envy of a 26 year old CA who IS SENIOR TO ME and has the same flight time I do at 34 and, by the time he's 29, will have more PIC than I have now.

Competition gets more and more fierce for those coveted major slots and, between military pilots (who have the degree anyway) and these wonder-kids, it makes it harder and harder to justify the traditional non-PFT route... no wonder so many people go that direction.

Not to mention making the diffrence when displacements and furloughs come along.