Bad day at the FSDO for the Initial CFI

[BradG]

The way i understand it, the FSDO generally has the first right of refusal. Should they feel they are too busy to conduct the ride, they can allow you to take it with an appropraitly authorized DE. We have a DE or 2 in the KC area that can administer the initial CFI ride when the FSDO is too busy. But hey, at least with the FED's it free.

 

[JAFI]

I agree with Gulfstream:

"you were probably the 3rd guy to show up with that ratty airplane and they are pinching the school finally.

go back with another aircraft"



As far as the quota comment, I never had to go out and look for ratty airplanes, they just keep showing up.

Alchemy, go find a good airplane, take the exam, then go find some better aircraft and teach.

I would bet they weren't mad at you, they were mad at who ever "maintained" the aircraft.

 

[BrannonCarroll]

I think every state is different. You can go to Florida and can do it with a DE.

You will always find people out there who just want to bust your chops (both FAA guys and DEs). I think your guy was just being a prick.

Also, I think it has to do with the type of flying the FSDO guys has been doing....corporate jet guys flying GIVs would have serious doubts about getting into some of the rental airplanes you find at your local FBOs.

For some of us (myself included), the piece of junk airplanes are all we know and you just try to make the best of it.

The most important thing is this....you do what cha gotta do. If going somewhere else is an option - go somewhere else. If not, wash the airplane, replace the screws and try it again.

Hang in there!

 

[BoilerUP]

Here at Purdue, you can do a CFI checkride with any of the four Purdue-employed FAA DPEs provided you have a Letter of Authorization from IND FSDO. Thats what I did - did both my rides with the same examiner I did my instrument rating with. Worked out well for me.

I recently heard IND now wants 20% of all initial CFI rides. I know personally they have two new inspectors...and I have heard their failure rate is somewhere around 80%. So we shall see....

I have a friend who did his CFI ride with LOU FSDO. Said after his EIGHT hour oral, he was too tired to fly. Came back the next day and passed. Said it was the most stressful two days of his life.


Best of luck!

 

[mizzouguy]

Kid you are very lucky you didn't get a violation and even moreso that nothing bad happened to you in that airplane. As for going to a DPE don't think that is any easier and it shouldn't be. In some cases it is harder because those guys are out there in the real world and know more of what it takes. As far as turning people off from aviation, as bobbysamds suggests, people who rent junk airplanes are the real culprits. Not all rental and training airplanes are junk either. I've sent quite a few guys to the FSDO in a 35+ year old Arrow and never had a complaint. I personally have to take at least 2 checkrides a year with the FSDO and never had a problem with them and they have never had a problem with any of our airplanes. Suck it up and find a better airplane and chock this one up to experience.

 

[Alchemy]

In the airplane's defense, I don't believe it is a "junk airplane", if for no other reason that it has passed this FSDO's inspections at least a dozen times before. There has NEVER been a problem with this airplane before except for one time when someone noticed it needed an STC for aftermarket rosin sun visors. My flight school sends all the CFI applicants to the FSDO in this plane so the FSDO should know it pretty well. I'm not saying the discrepencies don't need to be fixed but I'm not going to condemn what is normally a perfectly safe airplane to the scrap yard over this. I will feel very safe in this airplane once the discrepencies pointed out by the FAA are corrected. If I didn't, I wouldn't fly it.

 

[Alchemy]

Just felt a need to finalize this ancient thread:

I ended up taking my inital CFI checkride at a different FSDO (DAL) with a different inspector. I dressed in a suit and tie the 2nd time.

The oral and flight portions were both very straightforward. I passed with no problems. The maintenance inspector at the DAL FSDO basically took a look at the airplane on the ramp then walked away (although they may have looked at it more critically when I was doing the oral, I don't know). I made sure the airplane was in spotless shape when I took it the 2nd time, and the FSDO inspector even commented, "looks like you keep this plane hangared". I just kind of nodded and said "yeah, looks like it" (airplane hasn't seen a hangar in years, except for mx).

2 weeks later another CFI applicant from my flight school took the airplane back the SAT FSDO, where I had my original problems. The same MX inspector who had grounded the plane weeks earlier this time approved it for the test. The applicant wasn't assigned the same inspector that I was, but he passed.

All in all, I came away from this whole thing with a bit more cynical view of the FAA and aviation in general. I look at everything I do now in aviation with a bit of paranoia. Maybe this is healthy, time will tell.

I also am trying to make it a new flight school policty to make sure every plane is washed regularly, and the night before any of them go out for a checkride. Hopefully we can get on the FSDO's good side and avoid any future conflicts.

 

[Alchemy]

Oh, and one more thing:

Why didn't I just reschedule the checkride with the original inspector at the original FSDO?

After all the discrepencies on the airplane were fixed, I called 3 times over a one week period trying to schedule and never got a call back, wether the inspector was out of town or too busy to call me back, i don't know. Needless to say, I wasn't going to force this guy to give me a checkride when he obviously didn't want to do it.

It all worked out for the best at the other FSDO. Apparantly you can choose whatever FSDO you wish to take a checkride at, it doesn't have to be done in the same district as the address you list on your pilot certificate (I thought it did for a time).

 

[Stifler's Mom]

5. One missing rivet on the left mid-fuselage

6. One loose rivet and loose panel on the left-mid fuselage

7. Various screws missing throughout the aircraft.

Sounds like the majority of the planes I did my training in.

 

[Jedi_Cheese]

You should have tried the "She may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts" line out on the inspector. Follow it up with putting on your sunglasses (especially on a cloudy day), kicking the tires, and getting into the aircraft and I would have paid to some money to watch the FSDO's reaction.

PS: congrats on the CFI

 

[Flyin Tony]

O man, I hope the examenar wont bust me because of my Dads plane when I go for my commercial. It needs paint and carpet. And alittle TLC. But runs real good. and everything works.

 

[pilotman2105]

All in all, I came away from this whole thing with a bit more cynical view of the FAA and aviation in general. I look at everything I do now in aviation with a bit of paranoia.

As someone mentioned earlier:

"I'm from the FAA and I'm here to help."

What a load of BS. The FAA is evil spawn when it comes to CFI applicants.

I just took mine with a DE and did fine. Easiest checkride I've taken yet, and the DE was only concerned with the airworthiness of the aircraft to the level that they should have been.

 

[bobbysamd]

Cynicism about the FAA

Congratulations on passing your CFI practical! Now, you are a member of the club/just another unemployed flight instructor. I love the ironies in your comments:

The oral and flight portions were both very straightforward. I passed with no problems. The maintenance inspector at the DAL FSDO basically took a look at the airplane on the ramp then walked away (although they may have looked at it more critically when I was doing the oral, I don't know). I made sure the airplane was in spotless shape when I took it the 2nd time, and the FSDO inspector even commented, "looks like you keep this plane hangared". I just kind of nodded and said "yeah, looks like it" (airplane hasn't seen a hangar in years, except for mx).

2 weeks later another CFI applicant from my flight school took the airplane back the SAT FSDO, where I had my original problems. The same MX inspector who had grounded the plane weeks earlier this time approved it for the test. The applicant wasn't assigned the same inspector that I was, but he passed . . . . All in all, I came away from this whole thing with a bit more cynical view of the FAA and aviation in general. I look at everything I do now in aviation with a bit of paranoia.

All pretty amazing, huh?

Some FSDOs, such as SDL and PWA, are very professional and easy to work with. Others, such as MCO, make one run the gauntlet. I don't understand that. The ASIs receive the same training. They have the same standardization and same manuals. I realize that individual FSDOs have their own politics, but the same Administrator is in charge of all of them . . . . .

I also am trying to make it a new flight school policty to make sure every plane is washed regularly, and the night before any of them go out for a checkride.

Sounds like a good idea, especially because FSDO had approved the same airplane before your experience.

Your first ASI's crack that you should have continued getting your CFI at a different school with a different airplane was uncalled-for. Perhaps that inspector was feuding with your school and decided to use your checkride to continue the battle. People do such things. I would have felt terrible, very defensive and very let down had some inspector said that about my instructor and airplane - especially after that FSDO had seen the airplane so many times before. There was no reason for those comments. They are enough to turn off anyone to aviation.

Congratulations, again. Good luck with your students.

 

[JediNein]

Congrats on the CFI!

Remember, your students ARE trying to kill you.

Fly SAFE!
Jedi Nein

 

[Vector4fun]

Alchemy,

There's a couple guys down at SAT FSDO that are dead ringers for that overbearing Sgt. in "Good Morning Vietnam". In fairness, there's also a couple others that seem to be decent folks.

We had a retirement briefing in their building almost a year ago. Almost all the folks there were FAA. One guy in particular, 50 ish, about 5'8" and 160 lbs, had groused at half the attendees before the meeting even started. He's about as cheerful as a black hole.

 

[pilotman2105]

Congrats on the CFI!

Remember, your students ARE trying to kill you.

Fly SAFE!
Jedi Nein

Ah, so I don't have to exclaim in the airplane after a bad landing "Are you *trying* to kill me?" It' just assume.

Thanks Jedi!

Your first ASI's crack that you should have continued getting your CFI at a different school with a different airplane was uncalled-for. Perhaps that inspector was feuding with your school and decided to use your checkride to continue the battle. People do such things. I would have felt terrible, very defensive and very let down had some inspector said that about my instructor and airplane - especially after that FSDO had seen the airplane so many times before. There was no reason for those comments. They are enough to turn off anyone to aviation.

I may be mistaken, but isn't there some sort of "customer service complaint" process with the FAA? Do some research. If the inspector was that much of a a$$hole, your situation is definitely a candidate for a complaint.

 

[av8orboy]

that sucks....

Move... Try a different FSDO.

I almost got pink slipped on my II ride for not having an up to date PTS. They changed the PTS a week before my ride. How are we to know about PTS changes? O'well I passed the ride and am now done with that CFI crap all together. Good luck to you.

 

[be76pilot]

Alchemy, you could always go to another FSDO(if there is another one close by). This method worked well with a couple CFI rides my friends took, and they avoided the local FISDO's super anal FAA examiner. Seriosly, his checklist WAS 8 PAGES LONG!