Babysitting the airplane

[canyonblue]

Do you think you acting like the classic Corndog Kernel might have anything to do with you "flying with more and more of these guys"?.

Nope.

 

[freightdogfred]

It affects you every day and on every turn.

What if you had a twenty minute turn. You wanted to use a real, porcelain potty and the Captain wanted to go buy Auntie Anne's pretzels for the crew. Right now you have to rush your business (assuming he lets you go first) so that you get back in time for him to run upstairs. If they would eliminate this policy, once the airplane was on ground power with the APU shut down you could both bail out as soon as the parking checklist was done, divide and conquer.

It's really an efficiency issue as much as anything else. We can be more productive with our limited time if we aren't chained to the airplane for no reason.

Here's another example. You are headed to Denver with a planned 60 minutes for an airplane swap. You think you'll have plenty of time to grab some lunch, use the restroom, and maybe even run up to the lounge to grab the latest CQT study guide. Instead after landing and shutting down you find out that the inbound crew isn't due in for :30 minutes and since there are through passengers we are required to stay with the plane. One of the pilots is going to be stuck babysitting while the other reaps the benefits of a break in the action.

You're right, it's a tiny thing just like gear pins are a tiny thing. But eliminating a policy that has no real bearing on safety would improve the at-work quality of life of the crews and specifically of the first officers.

I suspect it doesn't mean much to those who are working for their first and only airline - they don't know any better. (And some are conditioned to follow orders by decades of service) but for those who have experienced life under other liveries it is a more difficult pill to swallow.

Do not try to inject a logic-filled syringe into a flight info thread.
Especially a SW thread, jeez

 

[SpauldingSmails]

Gear pins are just plane stupid. I can see, but don't necessarily agree, the fact that some idiot could accidentally knock out the ground power (I've had it happen), but have you ever seen a 737 spontaneously go gear up on the ramp?

In the event that the GPU falls offline, I believe there is an alarm that sounds to alert the ramp crew.

Then again, it could be the drugs.

 

[canyonblue]

In the event that the GPU falls offline, I believe there is an alarm that sounds to alert the ramp crew.

It does, it's the IRS' going into toxic shock. I wouldn't expect anyone to come running.

 

[Clutch]

So when the ground power unit goes ape sht, as it often does, the gear is supposed to retract?

Gear pins are a waste of time.

 

[funnyman12]

I'm in disbelief that anyone would argue for "babysitting" the aircraft. What if we both need to use the big boy rest room? I guess I'll just blow up the forward lav while boarding....we will never get the contract many at SW want when guys can't even change their thinking on something as stupid as baby sitting a modern jet. Pathetic

 

[tankerhead]

Anyone that would defend this policy is a moron.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

Don't sugarcoat there tanker head..

I disagree with the policy too but I also know that change is hard especially for adults and especially when they have never known anything else. So for those for whom SW is their first airline, they may not know anything else and may not understand why it is a big deal. I don't think that makes them morons. I just think we can help them to see that it is industry standard and not unsafe to change from the status quo.

For better or for worse it is an airline built on a tribal culture of doing thing their own way. It isn't going to change - even on the little things - without a fight. But it IS changing. The latest email from CD said the gear pin requirement would likely be gone later this spring.

These kind of things are low hanging fruit and I believe worth pursuing.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

Maybe this conversation should be moved to the Swapa forum though. It's not broad enough to warrant being out here where everyone can see the dirty laundry.

 

[canyonblue]

I'm in disbelief that anyone would argue for "babysitting" the aircraft.

I don't think anyone IS arguing FOR the policy, it's just odd watching people get all wrapped up over a procedure that only affects most pilots a few times a year. I wish they would get rid of it, I always have, it just doesn't seem like a major issue to me. The only times it irritates me is when we swap, otherwise I'm not getting enraged over having one pilot staying onboard. If the F/O wants to go, then he goes, I'm not stopping anyone. It never was a problem when we did :20 turns since we were pretty much just stop and go. The problem is the Captains who disappear for 30 minutes of the 35 minute turn, I've seen that, you just have to confront that ahead of time.

What if we both need to use the big boy rest room?

The problem with flying AM's when you're over 40 years old. Most PM'ers don't blow a colon after 1PM.

....we will never get the contract many at SW want when guys can't even change their thinking on something as stupid as baby sitting a modern jet. Pathetic

Or focus all their energy on the wrong things. Ask around about the Peanut Butter Jar principal.

 

[canyonblue]

So for those for whom SW is their first airline, they may not know anything else and may not understand why it is a big deal. I don't think that makes them morons. I just think we can help them to see that it is industry standard and not unsafe to change from the status quo.

You should have seen the b!tching when we had to start using the "Bypass Pin". NOBODY likes the gear pins or babysitting the jet, I argued this point many times when I was an F/O and you just are not going to change someones mind on the issue, you're wasting air, thats all I'm trying to say here. If they felt the same way about the pins and the babysitting as they did about the bypass pin, then it probably would be on its fast way out.

 

[BuckMurdock1]

Just so I'm understanding correctly; you have to pin your gear anytime you have a plane at the gate unattended?

 

[HowardBorden]

Just so I'm understanding correctly; you have to pin your gear anytime you have a plane at the gate unattended?

No, but almost that ridiculous. Every night when an aircraft terminates the rampers insert the gear pins. Every morning on an originator, the F.O. pulls the pins during the walk around.

 

[Dumb Pilot]

I have an army of people wearing white hard hats and white gloves for that....!

 

[wonka]

post of year^

 

[Sluggo_63]

I have an army of people wearing white hard hats and white gloves for that....!

...don't forget the whistles... our guys are whistle crazy...

 

[ron burgundy]

You should have seen the b!tching when we had to start using the "Bypass Pin". NOBODY likes the gear pins or babysitting the jet, I argued this point many times when I was an F/O and you just are not going to change someones mind on the issue, you're wasting air, thats all I'm trying to say here. If they felt the same way about the pins and the babysitting as they did about the bypass pin, then it probably would be on its fast way out.

Difference being...bypass pin serves a ..REAL purpose.
Gear pins...not so much
Bypass pins don't really involve the flight deck/manual labor.
What was the bitching about??
That it was safer or that it was .....a change?

 

[SIG600]

...don't forget the whistles... our guys are whistle crazy...

Did someone say da whistles?!?! They go, WOO WOOOOOO.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eSOSJ68xOBA

 

[SpauldingSmails]

"It's jus fer decoration!"

 

[canyonblue]

Difference being...bypass pin serves a ..REAL purpose.
Gear pins...not so much
Bypass pins don't really involve the flight deck/manual labor.
What was the bitching about??
That it was safer or that it was .....a change?

With SWA procedures about as much as the Gear pins. The ramp guys would say... "AirTran pin in".

 

[Chest Rockwell]

Use of the bypass pin was initiated by tow-ins at LGA, and the -200 being off the property.

 

[Roomwithaview]

Jeeezus H Christ-does it ever end?

FWIW "take it to the swapull forum" Been there done that for years. We've been bitching about Gear Pins and babysitting airplanes for years. As someone else pointed out, that was the way we did it at the unit back in the day so therefore............

And can we stop with the incessant Tranny/RSW hatefest? I'll admit that I fought like a commanchee for my side when there was a my side but that ship has sailed.

We're all one big happy slightly dysfunctional family. Let's keep it that way. I like to tell people that Kelly and VDV's long term goal has been to take worst parts of SWA and the worst parts of AAI and that will be the new airline.

Bypass pin? Added layer of protection. I like it.

Gear pins? BFD Pulled them for years and still pull them to this day at least once a trip.

Babysitting the plane? They pay me the big bucks to the let the FO go on his merry way and I'll be the one to decide if I'm being dicked around with too long. I can tell you from experience that every ground person to a man and woman eventually followed my directive to deplane and shut the aircraft down. And I never spent more than fifteen minutes waiting for it to happen. I've waited longer at the curb for the hotel transportation to arrive. Fix THAT!! That's something I can get spooled about.

To my SWA OG's-Time to let it go. To my newly arrived friends. Welcome. Let's stay focused on the big stuff, the killer items and the contract.

The company loves playing divide and conquer and as you'll see unless you keep swapull focused they'll gladly carry the water for them in that department.

 

[freightdogfred]

And can we stop with the incessant Tranny/RSW hatefest?

Prob won't happen. As you can see, guys on your side like canyon and redklown can't. A group of peers on the outside looking in can't change the fallacy of their thinking on how it all went down. Real Airtran dudes just keep their mouth shut and do their job. No other choice. But rest assured most won't forget nor have any desire to have anything to do with SWAPA.

 

[Roomwithaview]

Phreddy

Prob won't happen. As you can see, guys on your side like canyon and redklown can't. A group of peers on the outside looking in can't change the fallacy of their thinking on how it all went down. Real Airtran dudes just keep their mouth shut and do their job. No other choice. But rest assured most won't forget nor have any desire to have anything to do with SWAPA.

Well I've got over fifteen years of getting fcked by swapull under my belt.

If you think for a minute you got hosed by them when you were ALPA just wait to see how good it feels when you're paying the bill.

 

[freightdogfred]

They can't hose me any more than they have. I don't really care what they do. I'm a company man now.

 

[HowardBorden]

But rest assured most won't forget nor have any desire to have anything to do with SWAPA.

They can't hose me any more than they have. I don't really care what they do. I'm a company man now.

That's rich! You do realize that the offer both unions accepted, the one you seem to be so heartbroken over, originated from the company not SWAPA........right? You'll fit right in with the rest of the "Company Men" with that line of reasoning.

 

[freightdogfred]

So be it.

 

[71driver]

it's' OK to keep talking about being able to leave the cockpit during turns...as far as I tell all the other 737 operators do it...it's important to stretch your legs use the big boy bathroom up in the terminal...plus it just doesn't make sense ...keep talking about it.it will eventually go away... just do it without insults

 

[FurloughedAgain]

Agreed. Best thing about the AirTran merger has been an infusion of new blood and new perspectives on industry best practice vs "it's how we've always done it". It takes a while to turn the titanic but I see incremental improvements, for example the gear pins.

 

[madjack]

Hosed...what a joke!