B6 to Sell FIVE A-320s

[JP4user]

You've changed your tune over the last week or so...or are you just growing tired of masking your true colors?

My tune has always been the same. The tone is lower per moderator request.

 

[JP4user]

The real, true reason that this profession is on the decline is that pilots never pass up the opportunity to blast away at a fellow flyer. So much for sticking together as a cohesive group of professionals earning a buck in an honest profession.

Sad!

In your case that is about 2/3 rd's of a buck on the 190. Now that is sad.

 

[B6Driver]

Thanks for making my point with all your sharp whit.

"The tone is lower per moderator request."

I disagree. It is you that is sad; get a life.

 

[starvingredtail]

So to sum this up,
By getting rid of these 320's profitably and employing the 190's to open new markets while still growing at 20+ percent is a bad plan? This seems to be the emphesis. You can not think of this in terms of running your household budget. To employ your new business plan, sometimes the positioning causes a minor loss. The 320's sale is a case in point. The loss is minimal compared with the overall mechanics of the company. I think Active Herk got the picture earlier in this thread when you factor in depretiation. In the real estate market, investors shed assets after they are fully depreciated because after that point, they lose a tax/profit advantage. American is shedding 757's. In bk, Delta and NWA are threatening to shed all kinds of airplanes--and suprise! The lease rates drop. B6 is taking advantage of the "new" rates and offloading assets that are more expensive. B6 has decreased its expansion from 3X% to 2X%. This can be done by halting incoming assets (that are cheaper) or by getting rid of older assets (that are more expensive) Which do you think they should do?
STANDARD DISCLAIMER:
1. 190 rates are low. B6 leadership knows this and I trust them to fix it like they did 320 pay.
2. Cleaning the cabin is a different thought process. But no different than helping your loadmaster with a quick turn in the military. Its a Leadership/teamwork thing I am surprised more folks don't understand. (and hot young FA's smell better than loadmasters and their smiles of appreciation warm my old heart)
3. Contract/No Union--Screw ALPA. Paid dues for 8 years at NWA and recieved nothing because I was so junior. Good leadership at B6 goes a long way.

Now I return you to your previously scheduled B6 bashfest.

 

[starvingredtail]

Oh great,
I notice JP4user has had 9 cups of coffee and is chirping in with non stop drivel. Chirp on, oh man with no life. Sting us with your humorless, immature nonsence. Make us roll our eyes with your ignorance while we struggle with ourselves over whether to actually respond to you, or whether we should look for your parents and ask them to spank you. Sting on, oh bothersome gnat! Hurt us with your words. Your posts are reminesent of the Spongebob Squarepants episode where Spongebob rips his pants and he gets humorous attention, so he continues to bend over and rip his pants until he learns a valuable lesson: people burnout with the same old material over and over and over. So I think it is probably time for a new screenname so you can re-create yourself.

STANDARD DISCLAIMER:
1. 190 rates are low. B6 leadership knows this and I trust them to fix it like they did 320 pay.
2. Cleaning the cabin is a different thought process. But no different than helping your loadmaster with a quick turn in the military. Its a Leadership/teamwork thing I am surprised more folks don't understand. (and hot young FA's smell better than loadmasters and their smiles of appreciation warm my old heart)
3. Contract/No Union--Screw ALPA. Paid dues for 8 years at NWA and recieved nothing because I was so junior. Good leadership at B6 goes a long way.

Now I return you to your previously scheduled B6 bashfest.

 

[IB6 UB9]

My tune has always been the same. The tone is lower per moderator request.

I disagree...you started out in a respectful debate on another thread and now you've sunk into 32's category. Why? You seem to spend a pile of time on this board posting your derogatory comments will very little else to offer. Why?

 

[Andy]

The real, true reason that this profession is on the decline is that pilots never pass up the opportunity to blast away at a fellow flyer. So much for sticking together as a cohesive group of professionals earning a buck in an honest profession.

Sad!

Silly me; I thought it was that we've got pilots who are willing to offer their services for a buck an hour less than their fellow pilots. Shore up the payscales at every airline and I think that you'll find pilots being much more civil.
But to entertain your thought ... how do you propose that pilots stick together as a cohesive group of professionals? I'll suggest a novel concept: a national pilots' union. What's your suggestion?

 

[Bavarian Chef]

Silly me; I thought it was that we've got pilots who are willing to offer their services for a buck an hour less than their fellow pilots. Shore up the payscales at every airline and I think that you'll find pilots being much more civil.
But to entertain your thought ... how do you propose that pilots stick together as a cohesive group of professionals? I'll suggest a novel concept: a national pilots' union. What's your suggestion?

Yeah, that's working for the air traffic controllers. Didn't they just have a contract imposed on them? Who knows what the solution is.

No matter how good the deal, airline pilots = whiny bitches.

 

[JP4user]

I disagree...you started out in a respectful debate on another thread and now you've sunk into 32's category. Why? You seem to spend a pile of time on this board posting your derogatory comments will very little else to offer. Why?

The bile sent back my way from SOME of you JB brothers had something to do with the venting. I am a live and let live person but the attitudes displayed is a reason that for better or worse you guys have a lousy reputation within the industry.

Those same attitudes embrace a pathetic pay scale on the 190 and change for far's to start with. That kind of arrogance about Blue only let's you management bend you over and in the long run, it filters down to the rest of the industry.

 

[JP4user]

Thanks for making my point with all your sharp whit.


I disagree. It is you that is sad; get a life.

You're welcome but the point is, naturally, lost on you.

I'm not sad at all. Fact is, especially for guys like you, the train wreck headed your way will not even be noticed until it is to late. What possible reason could I have to be sad?

 

[JP4user]

Oh great,
I notice JP4user has had 9 cups of coffee and is chirping in with non stop drivel. Chirp on, oh man with no life. Sting us with your humorless, immature nonsence. Make us roll our eyes with your ignorance while we struggle with ourselves over whether to actually respond to you, or whether we should look for your parents and ask them to spank you. Sting on, oh bothersome gnat! Hurt us with your words. Your posts are reminesent of the Spongebob Squarepants episode where Spongebob rips his pants and he gets humorous attention, so he continues to bend over and rip his pants until he learns a valuable lesson: people burnout with the same old material over and over and over. So I think it is probably time for a new screenname so you can re-create yourself.

STANDARD DISCLAIMER:
1. 190 rates are low. B6 leadership knows this and I trust them to fix it like they did 320 pay.
2. Cleaning the cabin is a different thought process. But no different than helping your loadmaster with a quick turn in the military. Its a Leadership/teamwork thing I am surprised more folks don't understand. (and hot young FA's smell better than loadmasters and their smiles of appreciation warm my old heart)
3. Contract/No Union--Screw ALPA. Paid dues for 8 years at NWA and recieved nothing because I was so junior. Good leadership at B6 goes a long way.

Now I return you to your previously scheduled B6 bashfest.

Did you come up with all that by yourself? If you knew what I was saying didn't have a shred of truth it wouldn't provoke you to respond with such material. The standard FI defense is when you run out of facts to back up your fears and claims, the above drivel is what is produced. At least you don't complain about spelling. Not yet anyway.

1) B6 knows this? You're dang right they know it. B6 as in management knows you boys will grovel and work for whatever crumbs are thrown your way. You must be smoking some powerful products over there to believe that management is going to give you a raise out of the goodness of their hearts. Especially now when you are selling assets to raise cash.

Or are you a fool enough to believe otherwise?

2) Pathetic. Even more pathetic comparing that type of spirit to military duty. If you want to lower yourselves to toilet cleaners and cabin clean b emy guest. Just realize other management has their eyes on how far you will grovel.

3) ALPA today is a very sick organization that needs a major invasive surgery. However ALPA in it's worse day is far better than the protections afforded by your 5 year contract and lack of a true representational voice. Don't blame ALPA as a whole for lousy representation at your local or airline level.

 

[DonVersteed]

Well.... I was a former 130 guy, am a present FedEx guy, was never a United guy. I don't know what the "deid" is. I'm not sure why you think I have my nose in the air. I was just asking a question and trying to get an answer. I wish nothing but the best for anyone in the airline business, sorry if I've offended you in some way.

My apologies.

 

[Mamma]

Did you come up with all that by yourself? If you knew what I was saying didn't have a shred of truth it wouldn't provoke you to respond with such material. The standard FI defense is when you run out of facts to back up your fears and claims, the above drivel is what is produced. At least you don't complain about spelling. Not yet anyway.

1) B6 knows this? You're dang right they know it. B6 as in management knows you boys will grovel and work for whatever crumbs are thrown your way. You must be smoking some powerful products over there to believe that management is going to give you a raise out of the goodness of their hearts. Especially now when you are selling assets to raise cash.

Or are you a fool enough to believe otherwise?

2) Pathetic. Even more pathetic comparing that type of spirit to military duty. If you want to lower yourselves to toilet cleaners and cabin clean b emy guest. Just realize other management has their eyes on how far you will grovel.

3) ALPA today is a very sick organization that needs a major invasive surgery. However ALPA in it's worse day is far better than the protections afforded by your 5 year contract and lack of a true representational voice. Don't blame ALPA as a whole for lousy representation at your local or airline level.

JP4 or 32...whoever you are,
Be careful about throwing stones in a glass house. Just look at what YOUR management did to all of you at United. Seems the B6 pilots knew the payscales going in and are hoping for it to go up as the company grows. Also, with the quick upgrades, they end up not doing too bad. I don't see the screwjob you are talking about. Its when you get your pay slashed, furloughed, or lose your benefits....and management gets options and perks...that is a screwjob. Look at all the retirement bubbas who paid into ALPA and had their retirements slashed. Don't kid yourself...there is no comaraderie (i can't spell) in ALPA or between any pilot group. It's all about bringing home your bacon. Do your United pals sit around and say "Let's not do this because it might hurt the guys over at Delta or American?" I did not think so.
As far as the pathetic remark goes, you have no class. I always try to lend a hand if I have the time. Its called leadership by example. Standing around with your thumb up your a$$ and watching everyone else working hard to make the crew van is kind of lame. You think by not ever helping out you are upholding the "professionalism" of the job??? Think again. You are just causing contempt for the profession.
That will do pig. That will do.

 

[Bavarian Chef]

Did you come up with all that by yourself? If you knew what I was saying didn't have a shred of truth it wouldn't provoke you to respond with such material. The standard FI defense is when you run out of facts to back up your fears and claims, the above drivel is what is produced. At least you don't complain about spelling. Not yet anyway.

1) B6 knows this? You're dang right they know it. B6 as in management knows you boys will grovel and work for whatever crumbs are thrown your way. You must be smoking some powerful products over there to believe that management is going to give you a raise out of the goodness of their hearts. Especially now when you are selling assets to raise cash.

Or are you a fool enough to believe otherwise?

2) Pathetic. Even more pathetic comparing that type of spirit to military duty. If you want to lower yourselves to toilet cleaners and cabin clean b emy guest. Just realize other management has their eyes on how far you will grovel.

3) ALPA today is a very sick organization that needs a major invasive surgery. However ALPA in it's worse day is far better than the protections afforded by your 5 year contract and lack of a true representational voice. Don't blame ALPA as a whole for lousy representation at your local or airline level.

As for the 190 rates, the raise is coming. Announcement soon I bet.

As for the military comment, what's your experience JP4? I spent 12 years on AD and am still in the reserves and I view the cabin cleaning thing exactly as starvingred describes it. The amount of time I actually clean is so low that it barely deserves a mention on any discussion of pilot contracts. On some turns there is only time do the pilot stuff required to get airborne again, so a nice row or two is about all you can muster.

Either way, it saves jb money and I am for it. A question however would be: if jb makes money hand over fist, would they do away with it and hire more professional cleaners? Not sure. BUT if any particular group (read: flight attendants, they do the lion's share) wanted to stop doing it, I bet a union or two would help management make up their mind though.

As for ALPA on its worst day? Has that day come yet?

 

[curtaindriver]

JP4User,

One simple question: What will your response be if B6 management actually gives the 190 pilots a raise out of the goodness of their hearts?

I am definetely not smoking any "powerful products" but do feel a raise is coming......hopefully.

CD

 

[DH2WN]

JP4 or 32...whoever you are,
Be careful about throwing stones in a glass house. Just look at what YOUR management did to all of you at United.

This discussion is about B6 selling planes. Not United.

Bottom line......

DN sees a cash crunch coming and needs to sell off planes to improve the short term balance sheet. It's not good any way you cut it. The added costs of adding a second fleet type are biting him in the ass more than he thought. The marginal increase in revenue with the RJ are not outweighing the long term costs of having 2 fleet types. He knows it and is trying to correct his major f-up.

I have a lot of friends at B6 and I hope it's successful but selling off planes when you are a brand new company is not a good thing by any stretch of the imagination.

You B6 guys are spinning the facts that the company is starting to lose money and DN is now concerned with maturation costs starting to creep up.

You cannot turn back the clock by selling off old planes. Be very weary.

 

[hatetoadmitit]

JP4 or 32...whoever you are,
Be careful about throwing stones in a glass house. Just look at what YOUR management did to all of you at United. Seems the B6 pilots knew the payscales going in and are hoping for it to go up as the company grows. Also, with the quick upgrades, they end up not doing too bad. I don't see the screwjob you are talking about. Its when you get your pay slashed, furloughed, or lose your benefits....and management gets options and perks...that is a screwjob. Look at all the retirement bubbas who paid into ALPA and had their retirements slashed. Don't kid yourself...there is no comaraderie (i can't spell) in ALPA or between any pilot group. It's all about bringing home your bacon. Do your United pals sit around and say "Let's not do this because it might hurt the guys over at Delta or American?" I did not think so.
As far as the pathetic remark goes, you have no class. I always try to lend a hand if I have the time. Its called leadership by example. Standing around with your thumb up your a$$ and watching everyone else working hard to make the crew van is kind of lame. You think by not ever helping out you are upholding the "professionalism" of the job??? Think again. You are just causing contempt for the profession.
That will do pig. That will do.

Well Said

 

[JP4user]

Some powerful stuff going around there.

JP4 or 32...whoever you are,
Be careful about throwing stones in a glass house. Just look at what YOUR management did to all of you at United. Seems the B6 pilots knew the payscales going in and are hoping for it to go up as the company grows. Also, with the quick upgrades, they end up not doing too bad. I don't see the screwjob you are talking about. Its when you get your pay slashed, furloughed, or lose your benefits....and management gets options and perks...that is a screwjob. Look at all the retirement bubbas who paid into ALPA and had their retirements slashed. Don't kid yourself...there is no comaraderie (i can't spell) in ALPA or between any pilot group. It's all about bringing home your bacon. Do your United pals sit around and say "Let's not do this because it might hurt the guys over at Delta or American?" I did not think so.
As far as the pathetic remark goes, you have no class. I always try to lend a hand if I have the time. Its called leadership by example. Standing around with your thumb up your a$$ and watching everyone else working hard to make the crew van is kind of lame. You think by not ever helping out you are upholding the "professionalism" of the job??? Think again. You are just causing contempt for the profession.
That will do pig. That will do.

Sparky...I don't fly for United so you need to start over.

I am glad you are "hoping" the wage rates will go up. I didn't relaize management can be pressured with the collective will of "hope". LMAO. Hope..that's rich.

Quick upgrades may be a thing of the past. Did you catch the little hint that Neeleman threw out about "the possibility of more aircraft sales"? Or is it that the upgrades into the 190 plus your hope they will pay more going to take care of this? LMAO again.

I agree with you about ALPA or APA or SWAPA or any other labor organization. But as you ignored before, on their worse days, you have far better protection with them than you do with your 5 year contracts. Any worries if a new management team replaces the present guys because their performance is lacking and decides to become aggressive against labor there? How quick would some of those 5 year deals be renewed for those who decide that the hope is non longer working anymore and they try and organize? Or try to spread the word that things are not all well in Blueville as you are being led to believe.

I never waited with my thumb in my a$$ for the crew van. Is that a JB thing?

 

[JP4user]

Here is someone that really understands the situation

DN sees a cash crunch coming and needs to sell off planes to improve the short term balance sheet. It's not good any way you cut it. The added costs of adding a second fleet type are biting him in the ass more than he thought. The marginal increase in revenue with the RJ are not outweighing the long term costs of having 2 fleet types. He knows it and is trying to correct his major f-up.


You B6 guys are spinning the facts that the company is starting to lose money and DN is now concerned with maturation costs starting to creep up.

You cannot turn back the clock by selling off old planes. Be very weary.

You are hitting the truth and reality of the situation harder than I ever could of hoped to.

Well said.

 

[JP4user]

JP4User,

One simple question: What will your response be if B6 management actually gives the 190 pilots a raise out of the goodness of their hearts?

I am definetely not smoking any "powerful products" but do feel a raise is coming......hopefully.

CD

I would eat my words and say congradulations to each and every one of you. Well most of you anyway. That would be a huge step in the right direction for the wage scales on that cancer jet throughout the industry. Present and future.