B6 PEA Amendment

[Splert]

This section is exactly what we have now. The lawyers just used more words.

The top of the decision tree starts with the simple question.

Is the alter ego a covered alter ego under the terms of Section 15 C.

If not then Section 15 does not apply.

A covered alter ego is one in which Jetblue owns an interest and 'Controls'.

Control is the key definition is a alter ego is covered by Section 15 or or not.

If Jetblue buys 60% of VA and appoints a majority of the officers of VA under Section 15 that is not Control and thereby VA is not a covered alter ego and Section 15 C does not apply and that is what we have now - no protection exept we have a pilot group that thinks we are and keep pointing to 'and'/'or' vs the key trigger and that is the non standard definition of "Control".

You have been played. If you are on the 190 GTF off of it now.

I'm dead serious.

 

[Otto77]

This section is exactly what we have now. The lawyers just used more words.



You have been played. If you are on the 190 GTF off of it now.

I'm dead serious.

Kinda hard when you are seat locked....

 

[fifty30retard]

This section is exactly what we have now. The lawyers just used more words.

The top of the decision tree starts with the simple question.

Is the alter ego a covered alter ego under the terms of Section 15 C.

If not then Section 15 does not apply.

A covered alter ego is one in which Jetblue owns an interest and 'Controls'.

Control is the key definition is a alter ego is covered by Section 15 or or not.

If Jetblue buys 60% of VA and appoints a majority of the officers of VA under Section 15 that is not Control and thereby VA is not a covered alter ego and Section 15 C does not apply and that is what we have now - no protection exept we have a pilot group that thinks we are and keep pointing to 'and'/'or' vs the key trigger and that is the non standard definition of "Control".

You have been played. If you are on the 190 GTF off of it now.

I'm dead serious.

Agreed.

Farming out 10% of 37,000 seats will be an economic necessity, as other E-180 operators are far cheaper.

No more E190 growth also, that means get off it when you can, it's going to die.

 

[Smarta$$]

The company does not want a union. Doing anything like you guys are speculating would be the fastest way to ALPA or some other union.

Time will tell. But I doubt we will see outsourcing beyond cape air and\or some turbo-prop stuff out of SJU.

Also, who cares if the 190 program dies or not. We are all on one seniority list, and although there is some dispute as to whether they COULD furlough out of seniority, to ACTUALLY do so would be the an even faster way to a union. Our planes are full already. Our traffic is growing. They wouldn't park 190's unless they had airbusses to replace them. The company is not going to shrink, and again, to outsource the flying, would guarantee a union, something they don't want.

I personally want a CBA. If I could, I would have voted for ALPA, but this stuff you guys are presenting is tinfoil hat type stuff....

Come on. Stick with reality and arguing for better healthcare and retirement. You just look like idiots otherwise.

If jetblue outsources E180s or furloughs, we WILL have a union, they don't want that. None of that is in our future and none of it fits the company's model.

 

[FurloughedAgain]

Any word on when the window might reopen?

 

[BeachBummer]

The only problem with this arguement is that once it's done, bringing a union on property is moot. Like buying the car insurance after the wreck. If it happens, we won't be jetblue anymore and if anyone is left they will vote on being a part of APA, Teamsters(190goesRAH) SWAPA, FAPA, ALPA, DALPA, or USAPA. Managment couldn't care less what happens after the T/E is signed sealed and delivered. They get a bonus and you get to mop up the rest of your career.

Or he11 maybe there is something to this DR and we staple AA or USA pilots to our list and we all retire 777 captains. I'm not betting on it though.

The company does not want a union. Doing anything like you guys are speculating would be the fastest way to ALPA or some other union.

Time will tell. But I doubt we will see outsourcing beyond cape air and\or some turbo-prop stuff out of SJU.

Also, who cares if the 190 program dies or not. We are all on one seniority list, and although there is some dispute as to whether they COULD furlough out of seniority, to ACTUALLY do so would be the an even faster way to a union. Our planes are full already. Our traffic is growing. They wouldn't park 190's unless they had airbusses to replace them. The company is not going to shrink, and again, to outsource the flying, would guarantee a union, something they don't want.

I personally want a CBA. If I could, I would have voted for ALPA, but this stuff you guys are presenting is tinfoil hat type stuff....

Come on. Stick with reality and arguing for better healthcare and retirement. You just look like idiots otherwise.

If jetblue outsources E180s or furloughs, we WILL have a union, they don't want that. None of that is in our future and none of it fits the company's model.

 

[Smarta$$]

The only problem with this arguement is that once it's done, bringing a union on property is moot. Like buying the car insurance after the wreck. If it happens, we won't be jetblue anymore and if anyone is left they will vote on being a part of APA, Teamsters(190goesRAH) SWAPA, FAPA, ALPA, DALPA, or USAPA. Managment couldn't care less what happens after the T/E is signed sealed and delivered. They get a bonus and you get to mop up the rest of your career.

Or he11 maybe there is something to this DR and we staple AA or USA pilots to our list and we all retire 777 captains. I'm not betting on it though.

No, I agree about your point on a merger or acquisition. Like I said, I am a CBA supporter. I am talking about furloughing 190 pilots or outsourcing E180s. That will not happen. Could we buy someone like Frontier or Virgin? Yep. Could we be swallowed up by Delta, AA or UCAL? Yep. Are we protected? Likely not. Don't know.

 

[doz4dllrs]

Can I get some help with some of your terms? I need a glossary, what is:

PEA
PVC
5 docs

I'm sure there are others. If there is another thread that explains how things are set up over there, please give the link. I'm just trying to understand how the B6 pilot group operates. Thanks.

 

[Flyby1206]

Can I get some help with some of your terms? I need a glossary, what is:

PEA
PVC
5 docs

I'm sure there are others. If there is another thread that explains how things are set up over there, please give the link. I'm just trying to understand how the B6 pilot group operates. Thanks.

PEA- Personal Employment Agreement. Its a 10page brochure that we sign as Day 1 as a newhire. It has stuff in there such as pay rates and very limited work rule language.

PVC- Pilot Values Committee. Think of this as a student council that tells the principle that recess needs to be longer. The principle listens, but doesnt really have to take any suggestions into consideration. The PVC is meant to give us security and feel like we have a LEC/MEC when we really dont.

5 documents. These were ammendments created for our PEAs. The pilot group voted on it and approved them, and then we all had an opportunity to sign the individual ammendment to our contract if we wanted to have these included or not. The 5 docs covered a variety of stuff, but were basically poorly written and full of loopholes. Some topics they covered were Dispute Resolution management, Merger/Transactional event language, seniority list integration, alter ego carriers, and more.

 

[fifty30retard]

The company does not want a union. Doing anything like you guys are speculating would be the fastest way to ALPA or some other union.

Time will tell. But I doubt we will see outsourcing beyond cape air and\or some turbo-prop stuff out of SJU.

Also, who cares if the 190 program dies or not. We are all on one seniority list, and although there is some dispute as to whether they COULD furlough out of seniority, to ACTUALLY do so would be the an even faster way to a union. Our planes are full already. Our traffic is growing. They wouldn't park 190's unless they had airbusses to replace them. The company is not going to shrink, and again, to outsource the flying, would guarantee a union, something they don't want.

I personally want a CBA. If I could, I would have voted for ALPA, but this stuff you guys are presenting is tinfoil hat type stuff....

Come on. Stick with reality and arguing for better healthcare and retirement. You just look like idiots otherwise.

If jetblue outsources E180s or furloughs, we WILL have a union, they don't want that. None of that is in our future and none of it fits the company's model.

The 180s may stay or go but farming out flying with alter ego (your PVC attorneys' opinion, in IAD last month, of true company intentions in the documents) will delay junior FO upgrades for years and years. Stagnation comes with alter ego flying, it is the nature of it, as in, find cheaper pilots.