Awful landings???

[SLFLYHI]

What's wrong with trying to greasing it in the TDZ then? Of course the airplane I fly it's hard not to have a good landing, not that I haven't pounded one on now and agian.

Greasing the ERJ in the touchdown is nearly impossible without floating. A moderate crosswind actually makes for the best greasers in the TDZ - at least when I'm flying.

 

[acaTerry]

Here's my take:

One good landing is luck
Two good landings is darn luck
Three good landings is a darn lie.

 

[blzr]

Maybe she put the power levers in Beta before touchdown.?

 

[Motive Flow]

It's okay to try for a greaser, but if you float for 1 to 2 seconds, just plant it.

 

[Tank Commander]

Mother nature will eventually humble even the best of pilots. Ask the SWA crew that went through the wall at MWD. She's a bitch and she will try to kill you!

 

[propjockey]

Well, I've had my share of good ones and bad ones, including the good ones that were "bad" because they were past the touchdown zone. (Yes, I got the same lecture in the right seat -- "whatever you do, don't put it down past the touchdown zone on your type ride!!") But there are three landings in particular that stand out in my mind as particularly firm.

I know a check airman who was very dejected one day because he pounded on the 700 so hard. He was so disappointed with himself that he called his wife and said "I landed, THEN I flared!"

 

[WSurf]

One of my boys was waiting to take-off out of DCA (Windy Day) when this guy that sounded like the United Captain kept asking for wind checks. My Buddy was like, 'What a nub to be asking for so many wind checks'. Then this United 727 bounces off the runway so high that by the time it starts to settle down on the runway there is a chance that they might run out of pavement. At just the point of it coming down a big ball of black fire comes out the engines and plane wollows into the air, just as the gear is coming up on the go around, the tower asked, "wow, united guess you are going around". Then my bud said a teenage girl sounding voice says, "Yes, United going around". Dope!!

 

[skidbuggy]

Back in the day when Comair Academy was running their "Hired" ads in the magazines....

We were holding short of RWY 4 at LGA, single runway ops, on a lousy weather day with high winds a Comair CRJ porpoised on landing. While these guys were busy at settling down their errant ride somone spoke up on frequency with the comment "Hired".

 

[SkyBoy1981]

All that changed when I flew with a 50+ yr old grandmother who happened to be a check airman at our company. I pulled off one of my amazing greasers and on the taxi in she said to me in her distinct southern drawl "that was the worst landing I've seen in a long time" What!?

She was kind enough to pull me aside and educate me that landing 2000 ft past the touchdown zone was unprofessional and unsafe despite what the passengers may have said. She said the mark of a true pro is to put the airplane into the touchdown zone every time regardless of how smooth or hard the landing felt. A little old granny with a two-pack a day Marlboro habit had reduced superpilot back to a subconscious student who could barely muster a sentence. And she was 100% right.

Excellent post. I have heard of the Check Airman that you speak of, and I agree with her 100%. I certainly don't claim to be the next Chuck Yeager, but I try to put more emphasis on flying a good, stable approach followed by a landing within the touchdown zone at the proper speed. I don't understand why some folks put twice as much effort into greasing their landings as they do flying a proper approach. A firm touchdown may get you a few smirks from the passengers as they deplane...but flying a bad approach may get you on the front page of the next day's paper.

 

[mrnolmts]

I'd say as long as you are in one piece, and stay within the runway limits, everything is A-ok. Talking about staying within runway limits: Here's a guy that didn't:
http://www.aviationexplorer.com/md11_kai_tak_crosswind.htm

 

[WSurf]

You know you had a hard landing in a Dash 8 when half the overhead bins come down, and you have a couple of the caution panal lights stuck in you teeth!!

 

[sleddriver77]

The first time I ever did the Expressway visual into LGA, I banged 'er on pretty good, and bounced around for awhile. In my defense, it *WAS* a gusty crosswind, I was still really new in the 145, and had NO feel for a stabilized visual approach. At the exact time we impacted, the tower controller opened his mike and started to clear somebody for something, and as I was bouncing along trying to keep it right side up and on the runway I could CLEARLY hear somebody in the background in the tower say "Holy Sh1T!! Did you see that?" I wish I could say they've improved. They haven't.

 

[mrnolmts]

...and as I was bouncing along trying to keep it right side up and on the runway I could CLEARLY hear somebody in the background in the tower say "Holy Sh1T!! Did you see that?" I wish I could say they've improved. They haven't.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:
:beer:

 

[pianoman]

There's definitely a difference between a bad landing and a SCARY landing. Getting within about 5 feet and then slamming it in- uncomfortable, something to laugh about, but not scary. 100 ft flare at idle floating along with no airspeed- that's scary.

 

[acaTerry]

Here's a classic; a case study example of poor CRM, poor airmanship, and an attempt to "get away with it" afterwards.
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_id=20011030X02159&ntsbno=NYC02LA013&akey=1

 

[UZAInstructor]

"The captain was asked why she closed the throttles prior to touchdown, as the airplane was slow on the approach. She reported that she closed the throttles because it was company procedure to close the throttles at 50 feet."

That's good stuff...........the airplane is well below Vref and no doubt sinking like crazy, and she pulls the throttles to idle because "it's company procedure".

 

[Kaman]

Hello,
I've seen alot of DASH-8s land and have flown on them both in the cabin and jumpseat. It seems like a pretty tough airplane to get a consistently smooth touchdown in. However, I don't grade professional pilots for a living, but if I was to design a grading system it would have the smooth touchdown way down the list. Being on-speed, on-profile touching down in the TDZ and on centerline is much more important.
A popular saying comes to mind when relating landing stories. "Those that have and those that will". I'll attest to that for some pretty crappy landings in the 1900 I've made.

Regards,

ex-Navy Rotorhead

 

[Sig]

I'd say as long as you are in one piece, and stay within the runway limits, everything is A-ok. Talking about staying within runway limits: Here's a guy that didn't:

DANG! It looks like the FO was over the centerline... cuhrazee.

 

[mrnolmts]

Here's a classic; a case study example of poor CRM, poor airmanship, and an attempt to "get away with it" afterwards.
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief2.asp?ev_id=20011030X02159&ntsbno=NYC02LA013&akey=1

While it is obvious she messed up, it's also very easy for us to be Monday Morning Quarterbacks here. I'd be surprised if either one of you can honestly say they've never made a mistake in their flying career. How many of you have had firm landings without reporting it? Question is, how hard does it have to be before a report is warranted? I'm not sure I know where the line is, are you? All I know is, I'd report it if I personally felt it was beyond "the norm", but it would still be a subjective assessment. Yours may vary greatly from mine. I am by no means saying she was correct in making the decision to not report it, because obviously she should have. However, could it be as simple as her train of thought being "It was a hard landing allright, but we inspected the aircraft, and found no visible damage, so I guess it's ok"? Flawed as it turned out to be, I can see a few guys making the very same decision.
Obviously, they should have noticed the tailstrike damage on the postflight inspection. However, notice that at least one other crew preflighted and flew the airplane without noticing, so maybe the damage wasn't that obvious? I don't know. Also, there were at least one positive here: She did inform the pilot taking the airplane the following day, who by the way, was a company check airman (!!!), and did not take the time to check the airplane out, nor did the crew who wound up actually flying the airplane out.
I'm just having a hard time dealing with people putting other people down, when they were not there, and were not the ones making the decisions.
:beer:

 

[flatspin7]

I was a pretty new F/O in the ERJ coming into IAH on a pretty windy day... IAH always seems to have a wind shift during the last 50 feet.especially 26R.. Any one who flys in and out of there expects it... I didnt..

Caught a wind shift and had to kick in the power... I put too much power in (speed runs away) and then pulled waaaaaay to much power out...

The airplane did a Wylie Coyote fall from about 5 feet... The masks stayed up but the baby changing table in the back feel down. I kind looked at my Capt (great guy) asking "what in the hell did I just do??" And he simply remarked that I pulled the power out a little early... and that was it.

We get to the gate and the FA opens the door with a rousing greeting of "What in the Hell was that, I think I have to pull my underware out of my teeth!" and a few passengers made rude comments as they got off the plane... At this point I was pretty de-moralized when the wise CA looked at me and said.....
"I will never rag on an FO for a bad landing.... The FA and the pax always do a much better job"

Wise words... 100% true...

In reality we all manage to grease on a few and we also have all left dents in the runway... Landing an aircraft is not a science sometimes you get it right and other times you look like a one armed monkey in a Uniform!

We all screw up....No need to play Mr. Superpilot!!!