AWA/USAir Deal Near

[Wiskey Driver]

What is "fair and equitable?"

Your definition is going to be very different than most AWA pilots definition. This is why this is almost certain to end up in arbitration if this comes to pass.

Career expectations help define fair and equitable. They are not everything.

Just as it would be grossly unfair for an AWA guy to be able to bid over an A330 guy, it would be unfair for a USAir guy to come back from the street to displace and AWA guy.

The problem remains, we will probably never agree on what is fair.

But IMHO, career expectations are important here. I was not in much danger of getting furloughed until my CEO decided to look into merging with a bankrupt airline.

Ok let me clear this up for you guys one last time. USAirways MEC thru LOA93 sealed the fate of all AAA pilots not on the property ie furloughed pilots in the event of a merger. In layman's terms furloughed AAA pilots remain furloughed with NO that's right boys and girls NO RIGHTS towards displacing current pilots on the property!!!! Here endth todays lesson...

WD.

 

[On Your Six]

Furloughed USAirways pilots displacing current/flying AWA pilots would just be wrong in my opinion - and I am a furloughed pilot (ex-UAL).... I know how the ALPA rules work, but it just seems wrong...

This would be a very thorny integration no doubt, but AWA pilots could argue that USAirways might disappear altogether without a merger (kinda reminds me of TWA and AA). I don't envy anyone on either side.

 

[TheDonger]

This was on another board

TO: US Airways MEC

FROM: Bill Pollock, Chairman, US Airways MEC

DATE: May 12, 2005

SUBJECT: Special MEC Meeting Notice – May 19 and 20, 2005

In accordance with Article IV, Section 3 D (1) of the ALPA Constitution and By-Laws, MEC Chairman Bill Pollock hereby notifies the MEC that a Special MEC Meeting has been called for Thursday, May 19, 2005, at 9:30 a.m., and will adjourn Friday, May 20, 2005 at 5:00 p.m., or at the completion of business.

The Special MEC Meeting will be held at the Pittsburgh Crowne Plaza Hotel, 1160 Thorn Run Road, Coraopolis, PA 15108, Phone: 412-262-2400, fax: 412-264-9373.

The agenda for the meeting is:

1) Briefing by the Negotiating Committee and MDA Working Group regarding MDA issues.
2) Consideration of selection of a merger counsel.
3) Consideration of selection of an investment banker.
4) Consideration of the staffing of the Merger Committee and potential election of a Merger Committee member or members.
5) Discussion of the need for an assessment of the membership regarding merger expenses.

 

[PositiveRate]

It's no secret that both MEC's are getting ramped up for what may come. It would be foolish not to prepare for what is going to be a long, tedious process.

Also, it seems pretty clear that the junior AWA guys/gals are pretty safe with respect to the being replaced by furloughed USairways pilots...the main fear here towards the bottom of the list is the rumor of 60 airplanes going away with a completed deal.

It's likely fair to say that the 10 planes just announced would count towards the floated '60' number. It's also more likely that the carrier in BK will be able to shed airplanes easier than AWA (as well as bear the brunt of the furloughs)...you can also "maybe" count the A/C AWA has on delivery (15ish??). Even after all that (assuming USair sheds another 15 a/c or so), if the 60 number is true, there's still an excess of 20+ planes. I think in this situation, you might start to see furloughs from AWA, but that would be some time down the road.

Just talked to Cactus73 and he said that the Chief Pilots office told him that the voluntary leaves being offered have nothing to do with the merger and everything to do with a previously planned reduction in flying (particularly the 737) over the summer...this is also why new hire classes were pushed back to late summer, early fall.

At first glance, though, it all seems related, but I try to take conspiracy theories with a grain of salt.

FWIW.

 

[321 busdriver]

Good afternoon. Two observations here. 1) Our furloughed guys, as far as I know, have no protection. The last round of givebacks addressed fragmentation rights. It makes me ill to think that these guys who have given so much, and have been thrown to the wolves, will have no rights whatsoever. 2) U is generally out of pilots by the 3rd or 4th of the month. I'm pretty sure that I read that there would not be any furloughs as a result of returned aircraft. For once, I believe them. Scheduling calls all hours of the day and night trying to get coverage. Since Mr. Parker said he began looking into this over a year ago, and was just waiting for the unions to capitulate, then it seems to me that maybe all this has been orchastrated for some time and the streamling of the two airlines would not result in any additional furloughs. Of couse, I sleep during most of my trips now, and could be wrong. Best of luck to you. ( And for the guy who had to sell his porsche, let me give you the address of a friend of mine who shot himself because he could no longer handle the stress. ) I'm sure his kids will be in therapy forever. Positive rate, I know that wasn't your post, but I'm sure he'll be reading it anyway. Again, gl.

It's no secret that both MEC's are getting ramped up for what may come. It would be foolish not to prepare for what is going to be a long, tedious process.

Also, it seems pretty clear that the junior AWA guys/gals are pretty safe with respect to the being replaced by furloughed USairways pilots...the main fear here towards the bottom of the list is the rumor of 60 airplanes going away with a completed deal.

It's likely fair to say that the 10 planes just announced would count towards the floated '60' number. It's also more likely that the carrier in BK will be able to shed airplanes easier than AWA (as well as bear the brunt of the furloughs)...you can also "maybe" count the A/C AWA has on delivery (15ish??). Even after all that (assuming USair sheds another 15 a/c or so), if the 60 number is true, there's still an excess of 20+ planes. I think in this situation, you might start to see furloughs from AWA, but that would be some time down the road.

Just talked to Cactus73 and he said that the Chief Pilots office told him that the voluntary leaves being offered have nothing to do with the merger and everything to do with a previously planned reduction in flying (particularly the 737) over the summer...this is also why new hire classes were pushed back to late summer, early fall.

At first glance, though, it all seems related, but I try to take conspiracy theories with a grain of salt.

FWIW.

 

[ultrarunner]

If AWA were smart, they just pick up what they want at the U liquidation sale. It's gonna happen.

 

[321 busdriver]

Wish I had a dime for every Nostradamas out there. It certainly ccould happen, but if it doesn't, I'll look for your retraction. Oh, that's right. There won't be any as you'll put some sort of spin on this post.

If AWA were smart, they just pick up what they want at the U liquidation sale. It's gonna happen.

 

[TWA Dude]

If AWA were smart, they just pick up what they want at the U liquidation sale. It's gonna happen.

That's what they all said about TWA -- but it didn't happen. If you're so good at predicting the future you should have no trouble getting rich off your investments.

Edit:
321 beat me to it. I guess we're amongst the few who are smart enough to not make predictions.

 

[ultrarunner]

Hey, I'm just playing the odds. You think U is a viable investment, more power to ya!

 

[Fly4hire]

If AWA were smart, they just pick up what they want at the U liquidation sale. It's gonna happen.

There may be more to that than just hyperbol. What some others are saying:

http://www.indystar.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20050513/BUSINESS/505130440/1003

"..Both airlines fly Airbus and Boeing jets and probably would use a merger to reduce the number of older planes......Ashcroft said Southwest not only would be a fierce competitor on fares and service, but might also try to spoil an America West-US Airways deal by bidding on US Airways assets......The most optimistic thing that Roger King, an airline analyst with CreditSights, could say about combining the airlines is that it could be a "way of liquidating US Airways in an orderly fashion..."

From Planebeusiness.com (subscriber) newsletter:

Is AWA deal for US Airways Going to Fall Apart?
Finally, we had an interesting note this week from one of our favorite subscribers -- who wrote a thought-provoking email.

And I quote:

"When Doug Parker walked away from the ATAH deal, I thought he must be pretty sharp. It's hard when you get into the negotiation for these deals, to just walk away. He did, and I was impressed.


No question but that this deal is a disaster for AWA if he goes through with it. Then again, and stick with me because you might find this a stretch... if he pulls the plug at the very last minute, likely US Airways will have few options left. It would bring to fruition what every airline CEO goes to bed praying for each night.

So, the question is...Is Doug Parker this smart, or will he prove to be that dumb?

If I were an airline CEO hoping upon hope that my competitor would fail or I needed a competitor's assets so that I can survive, I might just bring him to the altar, only to dump him at the very point of inflection by which he would meet his demise.

But hey... that's just me."


​