AWA/USAir Deal Near

[Cactus73]

Why should it matter? Neither pilot group should be entitled to a windfall (ie, AA over TWA). Regardless it's still not known exactly what the nature of this union will be. Neither side can afford to buy anyone; it'll be up to the moneybags to determine what the combined entity will look like.

I agree neither side should be entitled to a windfall. But you can be sure that career expectations have to be accounted for. If this leads to (whay you consider) a windfall for the AWA pilots, so be it.

This is very different than the TWA deal. It can be argued that TWA was not going bankrupt and the TWA guys had career expectations that were quite different than the USAir guys have today. TWA was a prepackaged BK where the labor groups were forced to give up quite a bit under heavy threats from management.

USAir is already in BK court and is likely close to liquidation. Who cares what the transaction is called in the end and what the name of the airline will be after the transaction? The AWA pilots have career expectations that are substantially better than the USAir guys.

As Doug Parker has stated in the past, we will do just fine if we remain a stand alone operation and aren't merged.

Can the USAir guys claim the same?

I agree that both sides should be treated fairly. But this isn't a charity case, this involves people lives and families.

 

[seefive]

TWA Dude,
You sound a bit bitter. TWA was near bankruptcy at the time and the employees were lucky to be acquired by AA. Unfortunately, 9/11 changed everything. But.........if TWA was a standalone company now, it probably would be out of business. As it is, there are many furloughed pilots but at least they are still on the AA seniority list.

No offense intended, just my take.

 

[PHXFLYR]

Sea 5;


I wouldn't be so quick to draw that conclusion. Shortly before the AA/TWA massacre, AWA and TWA formed a comprehensive code share agreement. Prior to that,there were a lot of rumors of a possible merger.Sure there financials were pretty shakey, but to say that TWA would have folded...don't be so sure.


PHXFLYR

 

[TWA Dude]

I agree neither side should be entitled to a windfall. But you can be sure that career expectations have to be accounted for. If this leads to (whay you consider) a windfall for the AWA pilots, so be it.

I ask this rhetorically, but what are "career expectations" and what constitutes a windfall? Guess what, each side will define these things differently. At TWA/AA it didn't matter because the APA got to decide and impose its view. How will it be for AWA/US? ALPA merger policy ends up in binding arbitration.

 

[TWA Dude]

TWA Dude,
You sound a bit bitter.

Do I? Or perhaps you're just reading what you expect to read. My bottom line is that I don't believe the process was fair to the TWA pilots and should this AWA/US thing go through it's my sincere hope that it be a fair process. I'm honest enough to admit that my idea of a fair integration will differ from a US pilot.

 

[ironspud]

TWA Dude,
You sound a bit bitter. TWA was near bankruptcy at the time and the employees were lucky to be acquired by AA. Unfortunately, 9/11 changed everything. But.........if TWA was a standalone company now, it probably would be out of business. As it is, there are many furloughed pilots but at least they are still on the AA seniority list.

No offense intended, just my take.

My, my. You just can't fix "stupid".

 

[321 busdriver]

For starters, not everyone at U is excited about this either. Date of hire would obviously benefit U. Career exectations.. A 20 year f/o was not in my career plans either. As for the 5-6 year upgrade...we've seen that too. New aircraft..yep, seen it . The airline industry is a big pendulum, so your math could get fuzzy in a hurry. That said, being former Piedmont, I wouldn't want to merge with U either. I too once had a great job with a promising career. Let's not be too critical, management f....d this up, not the pilots. There are alot of great guys on the street struggling to feed their families. A little humility would not hurt you.

Two Words. Career expectations. NO windfalls. Right from ALPA's by-laws.

DOH was removed.

AWA- 5 to 6 year upgrade. More airbuses coming.

USAIR- More than likely out of business by year's end. (Maybe, well who knows.) 15 Year F.O's. Upgrade. Yeah, sure. Losing 10 more planes.

I am not a math professor, but seems rather clear.

 

[Yank McCobb]

For starters, not everyone at U is excited about this either. Date of hire would obviously benefit U. Career exectations.. A 20 year f/o was not in my career plans either. As for the 5-6 year upgrade...we've seen that too. New aircraft..yep, seen it . The airline industry is a big pendulum, so your math could get fuzzy in a hurry. That said, being former Piedmont, I wouldn't want to merge with U either. I too once had a great job with a promising career. Let's not be too critical, management f....d this up, not the pilots. There are alot of great guys on the street struggling to feed their families. A little humility would not hurt you.

A most excellent post that many would do well to read and heed.

 

[TheDonger]

For starters, not everyone at U is excited about this either. Date of hire would obviously benefit U. Career exectations.. A 20 year f/o was not in my career plans either. As for the 5-6 year upgrade...we've seen that too. New aircraft..yep, seen it . The airline industry is a big pendulum, so your math could get fuzzy in a hurry. That said, being former Piedmont, I wouldn't want to merge with U either. I too once had a great job with a promising career. Let's not be too critical, management f....d this up, not the pilots. There are alot of great guys on the street struggling to feed their families. A little humility would not hurt you.

Wait a minute. You "Piedmont" guys were quick to staple the Empire guys like me. Don't go there. The Piedmont/USAir agreements went to arbitration with the outcome being DOH - not slotting as Piedmont pilots wanted.

I agree with career expectations being suspect to interpretation. I for one don't want to see anybody at either company get shafted if this merger happens. Clear heads must prevail and forward thinking must rule the day. There is no looking back, things are never going to be the way they were. Let's all try to be civil and go with the flow because in the end we don't have a choice if these management weenies decide to merge.

 

[Soulfly]

321, Agreed.

Of course career expectations are subject to interpretation, thats where as you say, the math gets fuzzy. What may have been in the past should have no relevance. The present is what matters. IMHO.

One things for sure. This will NOT be the nations largest LCC. Not a chance. I'm not sure anyone will be able to get Airways cost down. Even Doug Parker. Surely, not from the employee groups. Can't get blood from a turnip. Where does the cost savings come from. Million dollar question?

If J.O. gets even a little bit of a hand in this new entity, none of us will wan't to work there anyway. This is from first hand experience, unfortunately.

Apparently, not to many other people see the logic in this as well.

Entertaining for SWA though. They will sit on the sidelines drinkin a little Wild Turkey waiting for the inevitable (along with some friendly competition of course). As we wade through 4 regionals, a SH%T ton of debt, and hundreds of more furloughs. Gheez, wonder why SWA does so well. It isn't magic.


Well, just me rambling again.