AWA/USAir Deal Near

[321 busdriver]

Hey Donger, I couldn't agree with you more. I, for one, think you did get shafted. Empire, as small as it was, deserved to get slotted as a worse case scenerio. You were screwed! And I'm not saying that anyone will get shafted, I'm just simply responding to the fact that that a fair and equitable " merging" of the lists, if this thing comes to pass, is the only right way. I took offense to the other gentlmens feelings that since AWA seems to be on the way up, and U down, then let's put them where they belong. Best of luck to all of us.

Wait a minute. You "Piedmont" guys were quick to staple the Empire guys like me. Don't go there. The Piedmont/USAir agreements went to arbitration with the outcome being DOH - not slotting as Piedmont pilots wanted.

I agree with career expectations being suspect to interpretation. I for one don't want to see anybody at either company get shafted if this merger happens. Clear heads must prevail and forward thinking must rule the day. There is no looking back, things are never going to be the way they were. Let's all try to be civil and go with the flow because in the end we don't have a choice if these management weenies decide to merge.

 

[321 busdriver]

I'm just rambling, too. It's a stressful situation, no matter what happns. I have certain beliefs about what should happen to the lists, as you do, but I will accept and honor whatever the decision. If " career expectations" is the way it goes, then I will assume the role of our Braniff guys and show up as your FO and give you 100%. Best of luck to all of us.

321, Agreed.

Of course career expectations are subject to interpretation, thats where as you say, the math gets fuzzy. What may have been in the past should have no relevance. The present is what matters. IMHO.

One things for sure. This will NOT be the nations largest LCC. Not a chance. I'm not sure anyone will be able to get Airways cost down. Even Doug Parker. Surely, not from the employee groups. Can't get blood from a turnip. Where does the cost savings come from. Million dollar question?

If J.O. gets even a little bit of a hand in this new entity, none of us will wan't to work there anyway. This is from first hand experience, unfortunately.

Apparently, not to many other people see the logic in this as well.

Entertaining for SWA though. They will sit on the sidelines drinkin a little Wild Turkey waiting for the inevitable (along with some friendly competition of course). As we wade through 4 regionals, a SH%T ton of debt, and hundreds of more furloughs. Gheez, wonder why SWA does so well. It isn't magic.


Well, just me rambling again.

 

[Cactus73]

Hey Donger, I couldn't agree with you more. I, for one, think you did get shafted. Empire, as small as it was, deserved to get slotted as a worse case scenerio. You were screwed! And I'm not saying that anyone will get shafted, I'm just simply responding to the fact that that a fair and equitable " merging" of the lists, if this thing comes to pass, is the only right way. I took offense to the other gentlmens feelings that since AWA seems to be on the way up, and U down, then let's put them where they belong. Best of luck to all of us.

What is "fair and equitable?"

Your definition is going to be very different than most AWA pilots definition. This is why this is almost certain to end up in arbitration if this comes to pass.

Career expectations help define fair and equitable. They are not everything.

Just as it would be grossly unfair for an AWA guy to be able to bid over an A330 guy, it would be unfair for a USAir guy to come back from the street to displace and AWA guy.

The problem remains, we will probably never agree on what is fair.

But IMHO, career expectations are important here. I was not in much danger of getting furloughed until my CEO decided to look into merging with a bankrupt airline.

 

[Yank McCobb]

I was not in much danger of getting furloughed until my CEO decided to look into merging with a bankrupt airline.

WTF?!?

Did the local Mega Lo Mart have a sale on rose-colored glasses this week?

Anytime you start to believe that you are "not in much danger of getting furloughed", especially working for a carrier that has been back and forth on the edge of bankruptcy itself, then you need a reality check. Bad.

This business lends itself to anyone and everyone constantly in danger of furlough, or worse. You are certainly not immune.

 

[TheDonger]

321 busdriver, thanks man. I think we US Airways pilots know more than most what's involved in a merger. We pilots might like to think we have control, but the reality is we're along for the ride like everyone else. The thing we all need to remember is to be fair. I am sure there will be a thousand interpretations as to what "fair" means or is going to mean. Lastly, if there is a merger everybody has got to stop looking back that they were this airline or that airline. I am still sick of hearing about Piedmont 15 years later...it's really irrevelant at this stage of the game. Whatever happens let's all be civil and do what's best for our entire profession. Good luck all!

TheDonger

"Dong, Dong...where is my AUTOMOBILE...?"

Hey Donger, I couldn't agree with you more. I, for one, think you did get shafted. Empire, as small as it was, deserved to get slotted as a worse case scenerio. You were screwed! And I'm not saying that anyone will get shafted, I'm just simply responding to the fact that that a fair and equitable " merging" of the lists, if this thing comes to pass, is the only right way. I took offense to the other gentlmens feelings that since AWA seems to be on the way up, and U down, then let's put them where they belong. Best of luck to all of us.

 

[TheDonger]

Catus73, you're acting like US Airways isn't bringing anything to the merger table on this. If that was the case we wouldn't even be talking "merger." You might be surprised at your career expectations should this merger occur. Again, don't be so hasty, let's just wait and see.

What is "fair and equitable?"

Your definition is going to be very different than most AWA pilots definition. This is why this is almost certain to end up in arbitration if this comes to pass.

Career expectations help define fair and equitable. They are not everything.

Just as it would be grossly unfair for an AWA guy to be able to bid over an A330 guy, it would be unfair for a USAir guy to come back from the street to displace and AWA guy.

The problem remains, we will probably never agree on what is fair.

But IMHO, career expectations are important here. I was not in much danger of getting furloughed until my CEO decided to look into merging with a bankrupt airline.

 

[ash5855]

WTF?!?

Did the local Mega Lo Mart have a sale on rose-colored glasses this week?

Anytime you start to believe that you are "not in much danger of getting furloughed", especially working for a carrier that has been back and forth on the edge of bankruptcy itself, then you need a reality check. Bad.

This business lends itself to anyone and everyone constantly in danger of furlough, or worse. You are certainly not immune.

I'm sorry yank. I'm gonna have to agree with cactus on this one.

While I totally agree that nobody in this industry is immune from furlough or worse. The fact remains that AWA made a 30+ million dollar profit last quarter and would probably wind up 2005 cash positive. They still have 20 or so more airbus deliveries coming over the next two years and were on track to hire 200+ this year. Any mention of furlough is only in the same breath as the word merger.
Doug Parker has stated many times that we could walk away from this deal and remain strong as a stand alone carrier. Can U management make the same claim?

'm sorry, but as far as career expectations and relative company health, any attempt to spin these two companies as anywhere near equal is comical.

please don't get me wrong. I don't advocate a staple or any ratio that would displace USair pilots out of their current seats. I do, however, feel that even one pilot coming out of furlough to displace a gainfully employed AWA pilot would be one too many.

 

[321 busdriver]

No sweat. I for one am sick about hearing about Piedmont! And I am Piedmont! I can hardly remember who I flew with last week. 1989 is a long time ago. I have great memories ( I think) of Piedmont, I think we would be in a totally diferent situation right now, but reality is what it is. Let's move on. No matter what, I will treat any FO with AWA with the respect that comes with being a professional, just as I will if I am an FO for any AWA Captain.

321 busdriver, thanks man. I think we US Airways pilots know more than most what's involved in a merger. We pilots might like to think we have control, but the reality is we're along for the ride like everyone else. The thing we all need to remember is to be fair. I am sure there will be a thousand interpretations as to what "fair" means or is going to mean. Lastly, if there is a merger everybody has got to stop looking back that they were this airline or that airline. I am still sick of hearing about Piedmont 15 years later...it's really irrevelant at this stage of the game. Whatever happens let's all be civil and do what's best for our entire profession. Good luck all!

TheDonger

"Dong, Dong...where is my AUTOMOBILE...?"

 

[Cactus73]

Catus73, you're acting like US Airways isn't bringing anything to the merger table on this. If that was the case we wouldn't even be talking "merger." You might be surprised at your career expectations should this merger occur. Again, don't be so hasty, let's just wait and see.

Where am I being hasty?

I'm acting like USAir isn't bringing anything to the merger? Where did I say this?

I was arguing career expectations, not the merits of the new route system.
These two are quite different.

Our COO told a recurrent class to today that our revenue is above previous projections and our cash postion is also right on target. We continue to take new Airbus at a rate of about one per month. N675AW, N676AW, and N835AW just joined the fleet in the past month.
He was clear that AWA is doing just fine as a stand alone entity and the "merger" would be a strategic long term move.

He also cautioned that if a deal is reached, it will probably look nothing like any of us expect and to ignore the media stories.

To Yank McCobb,

No I don't have rose colored glasses. I could get furloughed tomorrow if another 911 happens. We have little control over this.

I'm just strictly comparing career expectations to a current AWA pilot and a current USAir pilot- nothing else.

As I said before, we will never agree to what is fair.

 

[Hpilot]

putting on the parachute

I agree with Cactus. Prior to the merger talks I wasn't that concerned about a furlough. Although I was partially set up ie. no debt but my house. Since the talks started I've sold one of my toys(911) just to have the extra 20 grand cash and have started networking in preparation. Parker must know something I don't because to me it seems a really bad idea to merge. Best of luck to both sides.