AWA Pilots File Application For Preliminary Injunction

[Bringupthebird]

Then I guess the next obvious question is how are you going to lead the pilot group going forward? Is every issue going to be litigated since either side doesn't represent the other? You can't get a divorce so what are you going to do?

You can claim the marriage was a sham to begin with and let the battered party escape so that they can adequately legally defend themselves.

USAPA should be happy to help argue against the single-carrier status. They don't want to represent the west anyhow, why not let the west go back to ALPA and let things play out the way they were supposed to.

 

[Fly-n-hi]

We are where we are because ALPA "unionism" was by definition a fraudulent apparition. There was no unity, and worse ALPA ensured the most virulent disunity, among "members", that anyone could ever imagine. Buh Bye ALPA.

So you traded one fraud for another? I though the goal was to get something better, not status quo or worse.

 

[Turtle21]

Suppose you were forced to buy it even though you know it was made out of paper mache' and they also forced you to sign a service agreement that cost you thousands more than the car was worth, even if it was a real Corvette. Then you know how the west feels about USAPA.

News flash. There is no East and West. There is one union and each member in good standing gets to vote.

Cast your vote and grab a glass of beer to celebrate unionism.:beer:

 

[Fly-n-hi]

News flash. There is no East and West. There is one union and each member in good standing gets to vote.

Cast your vote and grab a glass of beer to celebrate unionism.:beer:

And you were serious when you wrote that!!!:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

 

[MK82Man]

Don't respond to turtlesville. He won't answer questions; he's just a flamer, ridiculous posts with no real input on the issue. There isn't a stand up East guy on this board that will defend the East's actions. You can't defend it when your are out to cheat others on an areement. Unfortunately, 161 Mainline AWA pilots will hit the street while East Furloughees remain employed out East. Some unionism ... no I won't drink to that.

 

[Turtle21]

Don't respond to turtlesville. He won't answer questions; he's just a flamer, ridiculous posts with no real input on the issue. There isn't a stand up East guy on this board that will defend the East's actions. You can't defend it when your are out to cheat others on an areement. Unfortunately, 161 Mainline AWA pilots will hit the street while East Furloughees remain employed out East. Some unionism ... no I won't drink to that.

MK82Man,

The reason for the disagreement is obviously a foundational disagreement about what defines what is "just" (or actually a union). Some are content with redefining the terms that amount to "just" if it suits them, without regard to others.

For a hint on who re-defines terms, one need not search further than to identify the ones who invent derogatory names (or unsernames) with partial semblance to reality..

Thanks for your addition.

As an aside, the Nic was not based upon any principles of unionism, which should have been abundantly obvious to even a casual observer, by now. To ALPA's credit it was but an fitting end to a long list of re-defining the terms to suit a few oligarchs who hated unionism.

Until everyone embraces the terms of unionism there will continue to be wasted efforts on lawsuits centered on selfish hate and discontent, justified by such ALPA-esque terms that confused a generation or more of union pretenders.

Drive on.

 

[Soulfly]

.................

 

[michael707767]

As an aside, the Nic was not based upon any principles of unionism, which should have been abundantly obvious to even a casual observer, by now.

No, Nic was not based on unionism, whatever that is. It was based on ALPA merger policy. As it should have been. As I read in interpret the policy, the Nic award was not perfect, but was pretty darn close to what I would have done.

The East pilots will not be able to overturn the Nic award. The best they can do is stall, and or keep the two companies seperate somehow.

 

[Turtle21]

If you, and the other East assklowns, via USAPA are the ones to define "unionism" as you call it, you really need to quit smoking weed for a while.

Thank you, Soulfly, for your illustrative response. Don't forget to cast your vote.

 

[Turtle21]

No, Nic was not based on unionism, whatever that is. It was based on ALPA merger policy. As it should have been. As I read in interpret the policy, the Nic award was not perfect, but was pretty darn close to what I would have done.

The East pilots will not be able to overturn the Nic award. The best they can do is stall, and or keep the two companies seperate somehow.

"unionism, whatever that is."

That sums it up nicely. There isn't even a desire to have an agreed terms of basis (so long as a pretend union group of oligarchs came up with something more personally beneficial).

Be that as it may, Nic received falsified seniority lists, quite innocently on his part. Even so there exists no desire to "overturn" Nic. It is quite sufficient to merely ignore such flawed and destructive propositions. Should a judge require that Nic be voted on as the negotiated position that it is (as AWAAPA has asked the judge to declare) then any good union member will be happy to vote on it, even if as former members of ALPA there exists hardly anyone accustomed to voting.

 

[Soulfly]

You folks won't be voting on anything for a long, long time.

I know Parker much better than you do, and you won't see a contract this decade. Period. There is nothing in it for Parker to get a TA on the table.

Thanks for being such a fair and impartial union and negotiating the Section 6 notice the west pilots filed prior the NMB election. Cynics......


And BTW, was DOH part of ALPA merger policy?

 

[Turtle21]

You folks won't be voting on anything for a long, long time.

I know Parker much better than you do, and you won't see a contract this decade. Period. There is nothing in it for Parker to get a TA on the table.

Thanks for being such a fair and impartial union and negotiating the Section 6 notice the west pilots filed prior the NMB election. Cynics......


And BTW, was DOH part of ALPA merger policy?

"You folks won't be voting on anything for a long, long time."


We folks.. We folks would be so much more.. unionlike.

As far as asking if DOH was part of ALPA merger policy.. you may as well ask if DOH is planned to be part of the new ALPA merger policy.. While both questions may have some entertainment value neither has any relevance.

Without an ALPA membership number I suspect ALPA wouldn't even be willing to discuss the difference between the two questions, unless of course it was in the context of a sales pitch to organize for ALPA. So objective and altruistic (err, unionesque?), they are.

 

[Bringupthebird]

I'm not sure where the turtle comes up with all this talk of "votes". Bradford has created a dictatorship that prevents votes on such important matter as base reps (or whatever USAPA has decided to call the equivalent) until he deems the time right. So while he derides the "Oligarchs" (poor choice of terms by the way) who actually accomplished alot for many pilots over the years, he defends the dictator of the junta that is USAPA and has yet to accomplish anything. The votes they did have on, west membership, they screwed up. It was simple enough for them to just follow their own Constitution, but alas they couldn't be bothered.

Without USAPA, there would be two separate sides and the west would be free to pursue their self-interests and comply with the original terms of the TA. However a flawed Single Carrier determination paved the way for the east to grab power.

USAPA is more akin to a street gang than a union, unfortunately they are legally compelled to serve the interests of their prey, an obligation they have successfully abrogated for 6 months. And like a street gang, they are marginalized even though they crave attention. No one takes them seriously, but dealing with them eats up precious resources.

Maybe enough on the east will get past their buyers remorse and oust Bradford et.al. and install real leaders who recognize the value of west participation in achieving their mutual goals. More likely a judge will see through USAPA's shenanigans and force them to carry out their legal responsibilities. The end of USAPA will surely follow.

 

[FR8mastr]

I think I saw some USAPA guys stealing milk from a baby over on the C concourse the other day. Luckily, for all of humanity, some humble and caring West pilots were helping out at a nearby orphanage during their lunch break. Upon hearing the news of this horrific act by those terrorists, they quickly finished up at the orphanage and ran out to a nearby farm, where they purchased some milk and rushed it back to the airport. I heard a rumor that they were being put up for a medal of valor from the city.

I figured if it was story time I could help out with some fiction of my own.

 

[Turtle21]

Bradford has created a dictatorship

"Oligarchs" (poor choice of terms

defends the dictator of the junta that is USAPA

a flawed Single Carrier determination paved the way for the east to grab power.

USAPA is more akin to a street gang than a union,

And like a street gang, they are marginalized even though they crave attention.


the value of west participation


The end of USAPA will surely follow.

If your entire proposition is an attempt to reject reality by redefining all the terms.. perhaps the issue is a habit of denial.

Don't forget to vote. And before you do consider that your vote is just one, like everyone else's.. Unless you are a privileged member of an oligarch. :laugh:

 

[Deadalus]

If your entire proposition is an attempt to reject reality by redefining all the terms.. perhaps the issue is a habit of denial.

Don't forget to vote. And before you do consider that your vote is just one, like everyone else's.. Unless you are a privileged member of an oligarch. :laugh:

Reject reality? Isn't that what you guys are good at when you don't get your way?

 

[Deadalus]

I think I saw some USAPA guys stealing milk from a baby over on the C concourse the other day. Luckily, for all of humanity, some humble and caring West pilots were helping out at a nearby orphanage during their lunch break. Upon hearing the news of this horrific act by those terrorists, they quickly finished up at the orphanage and ran out to a nearby farm, where they purchased some milk and rushed it back to the airport. I heard a rumor that they were being put up for a medal of valor from the city.

I figured if it was story time I could help out with some fiction of my own.

Hey if you're creating fiction, why didn't you throw in DOH.

 

[hateairlines]

Can't you all get along

 

[FDJ2]

"unionism, whatever that is."

That sums it up nicely. There isn't even a desire to have an agreed terms of basis (so long as a pretend union group of oligarchs came up with something more personally beneficial).

What was agreed upon was the process by which a seniority list would be obtained. Both the East and West agreed to the process. The East even got their first choice of arbitrators, Nicolau.

What happened was the East pilots didn't like the result of the arbitration and decided to form a sham union, not based on any common goals or principles, but in to attempt to evade an award they had agreed to be bound by. Its shameless, gross mob rule and everyone knows it.

BTW, unionism is about working together for a common goal and honoring your committments to your fellow union member.

 

[Turtle21]

What was agreed upon was the process by which a seniority list would be obtained. Both the East and West agreed to the process. The East even got their first choice of arbitrators, Nicolau.

What happened was the East pilots didn't like the result of the arbitration and decided to form a sham union, not based on any common goals or principles, but in to attempt to evade an award they had agreed to be bound by. Its shameless, gross mob rule and everyone knows it.

BTW, unionism is about working together for a common goal and honoring your committments to your fellow union member.

Quick, tell the NMB they messed up by certifying a sham. Let us know when they are gonna fix world hunger too.

And yes, unionism is about working together for a common goal (that is defined by a vote). If a "union" attempts to cram down something that was determined outside of the union then it isn't "common".

Exercise your vote!