AWA or Frontier???

[USMC319]

I would be a little worried about F9 slugging it out with UAL while they are still in ch. 11. If UAL had to play in the real world I'd give F9 a better chance. I might not have all my facts in line but I don't think that F9 has made a profit in over a year.

On to another topic... what airline do you think Frontier is going to merge with?

I think F9 is in a great position in spite of UAL's BK status and irrational business practices. F9's balance sheet is strong and the trends vs UAL are positive. Keep in mind, all the hype about TED gaining marketshare in DEN is smoke and mirrors because they are taking that marketshare primarily from their own mainline. Watch the next couple of quarters. Things are about to get exciting.

Now, on to the more interesting topic. I don't think F9 is interested in any merger activity, however, I think they will participate in one or more code-share agreements with some International carriers. When the consolidation time comes some good partners might be AirTran , jetBlue, or Alaska, in terms of corporate culture and route structure.

 

[Cactus73]

I could see F9 buying out AWA but not the other way around AWA is in really bad shape. They will be bankrupt by years end possibly.

Wow Jimdandy I better start looking for a job now. Our latest press release about our best March ever had BK written all over it.

As for someone buying AWA, you obviously never heard of TPG. They hold veto power shares at AWA, and it isn't likely that a buyer is going to be able to satisfy their needs in this economy.

As for debt. Yup, were loaded with it. This is why we aren't growing that much while Southwest, Jetblue, and Airtran are growing like crazy. Though it could be argued that the only reason Airtran is growing so fast is that they made committments for airplanes in better times and they have to take them. The good news for them is that they got a good deal on them but they are still having problems finding places to fly them.

During the ATA debacle, many banks offered us cash, so it isn't likely that we will be in BK court. Managment really has no reason to go into BK court as long as we can load up with more debt out of court. We don't have expensive contracts and pension plans that they want to bust.

 

[Dave Benjamin]

lot of people ask me who they should fly on when they go somewhere out west. I give them a few carriers to think about. It's not that I don't mention Frontier, but I go out of my way to tell them to AVOID FRONTIER.

You must not have flown F9 lately. I commute on them frequently and I've always been fairly impressed with the operation. Inflight staff does a very nice job. Pax enjoy the TV's. The flight crews have always been friendly and courteous about extending the jumpseat privilege. I've never had a bad experience on F9. Never.

From reading your post all I can conclude is F9 either turned you down for a job or one of the F9 guys or gals stole your girlfriend. Lots of vitriol but no substance in your rants VABB.

 

[On Your Six]

Maybe this has been covered already, but is it true that the deal with Horizon at F9 is not going well? I have heard some chatter but nothing has been verified to me... Did F9 want to reduce its use of CR7s?

 

[Dave Benjamin]

From what's been published in the press it sounds like Horizon's revenue per ASM is down on account of the F9 codeshare which would lead me to believe that if anything Horizon might want out. Horizon is a quality provider of 70 seat feed so I think F9 might not want to lose their services.

 

[crashpad]

Of the 11 million lost in the last quarter, 3 million (or roughly 27%) came from Express. Given they only do about 18% of our flying, one would imagine the 'why' is being looked at closely.
Horizon is a quality provider, but it must be utilized properly to profit both companies. Filling the caps to established cities only serves to undermine the customer who expects a big plane with TV and food.
Opening new cities and growing the customer base to support larger planes, is one way everyone will come out ahead.

 

[AnimalTale]

I truly love Horizon, their product and their pilots! They are a class act. I just think, in general, the CRJ is an expensive airplane.

Cya

 

[QCappy]

Maybe this has been covered already, but is it true that the deal with Horizon at F9 is not going well? I have heard some chatter but nothing has been verified to me... Did F9 want to reduce its use of CR7s?

Things are going great from all indications at Horizon.

No. I was told by a senior management person here at Horizon that we tried to get one of our RJ's back from the Frontier side because their utilization was at the minimum specified by the contract. However, Frontier said NO!

 

[QCappy]

From what's been published in the press it sounds like Horizon's revenue per ASM is down on account of the F9 codeshare which would lead me to believe that if anything Horizon might want out. Horizon is a quality provider of 70 seat feed so I think F9 might not want to lose their services.

Horizon's revenue per ASM is down due to the much longer stage lengths F9 is using our RJ's vs. what Horizon was using them previously. We love the agreement becuase we make a profit in pimping ouselves to F9. They may lose money but that is no concern to Horizon. It is guaranteed revenue. Tust me, the air group loves guaranteed revenue. That's why you don't see Alaska Air Group expand very fast. They are one of the most fiscally conservative companys there is.

Furthermore, we can only get out under certain stipulations in the contract.

 

[Capt. X]

Filled out an APP...but

I filled out an app with Frontier and am excited about their operation. Of course when I went to sent my online app I was left stuck because I needed a name of a Pilot, or employee there with their email address to push on any further. Anybody nice enough to give those golden nuggets out. I wish I new the pilots name on the list to see if maybe I actually do know something from F9. For now I have to hope a Frontier Pilot will jump on my flight so I can talk to him....Thanks for any info from F9 pilots....


PCE

 

[VABB]

Frontier doing well eh?

http://www.forbes.com/business/2005/03/29/cz_bn_0329frontier.html?partner=yahoo&referrer=

according to the above link, F9 isn't as cherry as you all make it out to be. On May 26, 2005, they are expected to report a loss of $25M or $0.80/share.

What was that someone said about F9 has only "good debt"? Let me educate you on that. When your company is LOSING money, NO DEBT IS GOOD DEBT. How do you pay the bills with a negative cash flow? The article goes on to say that the $25M F9 lost equates to about $0.80/share, and they expect it to drop another $0.20/share in 2006. i.e., F9 isn't going to see profits anytime soon. Which leads me to another topic:

I checked out airlinepilotpay.com and compared AWA and F9. For all practical purposes, the pay is about the same. A fifth year FO at F9 makes (based on guarantee) an extra $1404.00 in a YEAR than does a 5th FO at AWA. Ooooohhh!!! A 10th year captain at F9 yields an extra $13,284.00 in a year. Sounds like a lot, but when you factor in tax brackets, it's not all that much more.

Now, here is where it really gets good: AWA has a 7% B-plan and up to 3% matching on a 401K.

Frontier offers NO A-plan, NO B-plan, but, they do offer profit sharing. Oh boy, profit sharing.

Frontier guys, what do you do when the airline reports a loss? Do you not receive any money or do YOU write the company a check?

When contemplating where to go, you might want to look a little bit past the hourly pay. And, if you think you are going to make the big bucks flying for Frontier, you will earn mediocore bucks while flying your butt off.

I also found this interesting too. F9 has picked up more of the market share at Denver. Why? because UAL has pulled out some of its flying there. This is interesting because Frontier can only grow dependent upon others LEAVING. Frontier cannot go INTO a market and accomplish the same goal. Remember, F9 was started when Continental LEFT Denver. Give it time, more carriers are going to serve the abandoned UAL routes (mainly the regionals) and Frontier's only hope for expansion/growth will be the others leaving.

AWA is the ONLY post-deregulation airline to achieve Major status. They have been through a lot AND succeeded since then. They have proven they have what it takes to make it.

 

[VABB]

I really like VABB. He is really quit entertaining. Without him or people like him, I would not be on these message boards.

Keep us entertained with your "acted" ignorance, my dear and foolish friend.

Also Slugg--go to airlinepilotpay.com to see the pay comparison. VABB does not know what he is talking about. F9 pay is higher.

Cya,

P\

Higher, but not by very much. In fact, negligible. AnimalTale, how much is your B-fund going to be worth when you retire from Frontier someday? How much are they matching you on your 401K? Oh yes, I forgot. Frontier doesen't have any of that. But, you do have profit sharing though. Say, how much is that check going to be when Frontier is operating at a loss?

Hourly pay may be a little higher, but these F9 guys will have NOTHING from the company in terms of retirement.

 

[jetalc]

I can't believe I'm getting sucked into VABB's ignorant little rants, and I swear, every time I see him write "F9" I think he's truly talking about AWA. Yes, VABB, Frontier offers 401K matching. Pretending to know what you're talking about simply displays what an ignorant ass you are - you've made your points. Now, shut the hell up. I don't think anyone at F9 needs your "stamp of approval" and only time will tell which of the airlines is the strongest. In these times (i.e., when AWA lost almost $50 million last quarter), trying to argue about the issues you appear to want to argue about is absolutely fruitless. While I'm sorry YOU had a bad experience on F9 (supposedly), let me assure you that experience is highly atypical. And yes, unlike yourself, I DO know what I'm talking about.

Have a nice day, and please - go away.

 

[USMC319]

VABB,

Once again you have shown your ignorance by not knowing what you are talking about. Frontier not only has profit sharing, but they have 50% match on their 401K, and an ESOP stock program. Get a clue.

You are like Ted Kennedy or Jesse Jackson, the more you talk the more damage you do to your agruement and the stronger your opponent's view becomes. Now get back to class, otherwise you'll never get that ERU degree to hang on your wall. Also, please read the 10K before you post anymore financial info on F9, otherwise it just makes you look like an idiot. If you can't understand it, just don't post.

 

[jetalc]

LOL - I just about fell off of my seat laughing when I read this...when I viewed the posts by BLABB, I came across this little gem:


"I am an analyst, and one of my specialties is airlines."

Oh my God - VABB, you might want to find a different job, since you obviously suck at this one. I understand Home Depot is hiring janitors. Poor little bastard.

 

[VABB]

VABB,

Once again you have shown your ignorance by not knowing what you are talking about. Frontier not only has profit sharing, but they have 50% match on their 401K, and an ESOP stock program. Get a clue.

You are like Ted Kennedy or Jesse Jackson, the more you talk the more damage you do to your agruement and the stronger your opponent's view becomes. Now get back to class, otherwise you'll never get that ERU degree to hang on your wall. Also, please read the 10K before you post anymore financial info on F9, otherwise it just makes you look like an idiot. If you can't understand it, just don't post.

Go to airlinepilotpay.com and let the webmaster know about these incredible developments. A 50% match on your 401K? Is that only for the first couple of dollars?

Oh, and you obviously did not read the link I posted in my above post. Your company is losing money in 2005 and will more than likely lose even MORE money in 2006. So Einstein, how does your profit sharing work when your airline is LOSING money? Do you not get a check OR do you just have a payroll deduct for the loss.

ESOP? Yeah, that's a good program. Worked very well for UAL and Enron. Your stock just lost $0.80/share and analysts are predicting that it will drop a further $0.20/share next year. In case you can't add, that amounts to $1.00/share.

You seem to be in a state of denial over a lot of this. Frontier is going to issue a statement in May stating how they lost $25M. They don't expect to turn a profit even through 2006. Their fuel is very inadequately hedged too, and I don't see the cost of oil dramatically decreasing anytime soon.

Yeah, just the kind of place I want to own stock in or participate in profit sharing. Tell me again why the financials are so good?

Oh, and I did review the 10K. Not bad, but not real good either.

 

[VABB]

LOL - I just about fell off of my seat laughing when I read this...when I viewed the posts by BLABB, I came across this little gem:


"I am an analyst, and one of my specialties is airlines."

Oh my God - VABB, you might want to find a different job, since you obviously suck at this one. I understand Home Depot is hiring janitors. Poor little bastard.

I can't be a janitor at Home Depot, they will only hire you if you have been a previous Frontier pilot.

Why? Because who else would be well poised to clean toilets for low wages. Very similar to life at F9.

 

[ChinaClipper]

This is stupid.....

This the kinda smack ya get on the regional board; I know many man good folk at AWA, and MOST would be embarassed to acknowledge VABB as one of thier own. It very well may be that the best reason to go to Frontier is to never have to spend even one MILLISECOND in the presence of a stark raving Dirty Sanchez lovin' wanker named VABB! Anywho, the 401K match is 50% up to 10% gross pay, through Fidelity......BTW Another good reason to go to F9 is because we have never hired anyone from Freedumb Air!

 

[AnimalTale]

VABB,

I really like you. I really like AWA too! I am glad you fly for a better airline than F9. Enjoy it!

Knowing that I have no retirement (esop,profit sharing, 401k match, plus 125% overtimepay) and I work my A$$ off at F9(yah right, avg line 16.5 days off ), I have decided to make millions in real estate, so I dont have to worry about the airlines I fly for.
Besides VABB, I think at one time I was given the number P2136.
I was greedy and left for a retirement. I can tell you this (believe it or not)
F9 is the best place I have worked, did you get denied? Too bad.

For now and the near future my $$$$(money) is with F9. Although I do like AWA, a lot.

I will now go and pray for you and the anger/frustration you hold for F9. Let it go, enjoy AWA. Do not embaress your pilot group with your ignorant rants.

Cya Chap,

 

[VABB]

VABB,

I really like you. I really like AWA too! I am glad you fly for a better airline than F9. Enjoy it!

Knowing that I have no retirement (esop,profit sharing, 401k match, plus 125% overtimepay) and I work my A$$ off at F9(yah right, avg line 16.5 days off ), I have decided to make millions in real estate, so I dont have to worry about the airlines I fly for.
Besides VABB, I think at one time I was given the number P2136.
I was greedy and left for a retirement. I can tell you this (believe it or not)
F9 is the best place I have worked, did you get denied? Too bad.

For now and the near future my $$$$(money) is with F9. Although I do like AWA, a lot.

I will now go and pray for you and the anger/frustration you hold for F9. Let it go, enjoy AWA. Do not embaress your pilot group with your ignorant rants.

Cya Chap,

Is that the best you can do? "Oh, you're mad because they turned you down." Hah, you are that arrogant to assume that I actually applied to Frontier? I hate to burst your bubble, but I NEVER once applied to Frontier, EVER!!

My turn to ask a question. You think I'm bitter at Frontier because, as you say, "they turned me down." My question to you is are you at Frontier because NOBODY else would interview or hire you????