AWA or Frontier???

[VABB]

Frontier doing well eh?

http://www.forbes.com/business/2005/03/29/cz_bn_0329frontier.html?partner=yahoo&referrer=

according to the above link, F9 isn't as cherry as you all make it out to be. On May 26, 2005, they are expected to report a loss of $25M or $0.80/share.

What was that someone said about F9 has only "good debt"? Let me educate you on that. When your company is LOSING money, NO DEBT IS GOOD DEBT. How do you pay the bills with a negative cash flow? The article goes on to say that the $25M F9 lost equates to about $0.80/share, and they expect it to drop another $0.20/share in 2006. i.e., F9 isn't going to see profits anytime soon. Which leads me to another topic:

I checked out airlinepilotpay.com and compared AWA and F9. For all practical purposes, the pay is about the same. A fifth year FO at F9 makes (based on guarantee) an extra $1404.00 in a YEAR than does a 5th FO at AWA. Ooooohhh!!! A 10th year captain at F9 yields an extra $13,284.00 in a year. Sounds like a lot, but when you factor in tax brackets, it's not all that much more.

Now, here is where it really gets good: AWA has a 7% B-plan and up to 3% matching on a 401K.

Frontier offers NO A-plan, NO B-plan, but, they do offer profit sharing. Oh boy, profit sharing.

Frontier guys, what do you do when the airline reports a loss? Do you not receive any money or do YOU write the company a check?

When contemplating where to go, you might want to look a little bit past the hourly pay. And, if you think you are going to make the big bucks flying for Frontier, you will earn mediocore bucks while flying your butt off.

I also found this interesting too. F9 has picked up more of the market share at Denver. Why? because UAL has pulled out some of its flying there. This is interesting because Frontier can only grow dependent upon others LEAVING. Frontier cannot go INTO a market and accomplish the same goal. Remember, F9 was started when Continental LEFT Denver. Give it time, more carriers are going to serve the abandoned UAL routes (mainly the regionals) and Frontier's only hope for expansion/growth will be the others leaving.

AWA is the ONLY post-deregulation airline to achieve Major status. They have been through a lot AND succeeded since then. They have proven they have what it takes to make it.

 

[VABB]

I really like VABB. He is really quit entertaining. Without him or people like him, I would not be on these message boards.

Keep us entertained with your "acted" ignorance, my dear and foolish friend.

Also Slugg--go to airlinepilotpay.com to see the pay comparison. VABB does not know what he is talking about. F9 pay is higher.

Cya,

P\

Higher, but not by very much. In fact, negligible. AnimalTale, how much is your B-fund going to be worth when you retire from Frontier someday? How much are they matching you on your 401K? Oh yes, I forgot. Frontier doesen't have any of that. But, you do have profit sharing though. Say, how much is that check going to be when Frontier is operating at a loss?

Hourly pay may be a little higher, but these F9 guys will have NOTHING from the company in terms of retirement.

 

[jetalc]

I can't believe I'm getting sucked into VABB's ignorant little rants, and I swear, every time I see him write "F9" I think he's truly talking about AWA. Yes, VABB, Frontier offers 401K matching. Pretending to know what you're talking about simply displays what an ignorant ass you are - you've made your points. Now, shut the hell up. I don't think anyone at F9 needs your "stamp of approval" and only time will tell which of the airlines is the strongest. In these times (i.e., when AWA lost almost $50 million last quarter), trying to argue about the issues you appear to want to argue about is absolutely fruitless. While I'm sorry YOU had a bad experience on F9 (supposedly), let me assure you that experience is highly atypical. And yes, unlike yourself, I DO know what I'm talking about.

Have a nice day, and please - go away.

 

[USMC319]

VABB,

Once again you have shown your ignorance by not knowing what you are talking about. Frontier not only has profit sharing, but they have 50% match on their 401K, and an ESOP stock program. Get a clue.

You are like Ted Kennedy or Jesse Jackson, the more you talk the more damage you do to your agruement and the stronger your opponent's view becomes. Now get back to class, otherwise you'll never get that ERU degree to hang on your wall. Also, please read the 10K before you post anymore financial info on F9, otherwise it just makes you look like an idiot. If you can't understand it, just don't post.

 

[jetalc]

LOL - I just about fell off of my seat laughing when I read this...when I viewed the posts by BLABB, I came across this little gem:


"I am an analyst, and one of my specialties is airlines."

Oh my God - VABB, you might want to find a different job, since you obviously suck at this one. I understand Home Depot is hiring janitors. Poor little bastard.

 

[VABB]

VABB,

Once again you have shown your ignorance by not knowing what you are talking about. Frontier not only has profit sharing, but they have 50% match on their 401K, and an ESOP stock program. Get a clue.

You are like Ted Kennedy or Jesse Jackson, the more you talk the more damage you do to your agruement and the stronger your opponent's view becomes. Now get back to class, otherwise you'll never get that ERU degree to hang on your wall. Also, please read the 10K before you post anymore financial info on F9, otherwise it just makes you look like an idiot. If you can't understand it, just don't post.

Go to airlinepilotpay.com and let the webmaster know about these incredible developments. A 50% match on your 401K? Is that only for the first couple of dollars?

Oh, and you obviously did not read the link I posted in my above post. Your company is losing money in 2005 and will more than likely lose even MORE money in 2006. So Einstein, how does your profit sharing work when your airline is LOSING money? Do you not get a check OR do you just have a payroll deduct for the loss.

ESOP? Yeah, that's a good program. Worked very well for UAL and Enron. Your stock just lost $0.80/share and analysts are predicting that it will drop a further $0.20/share next year. In case you can't add, that amounts to $1.00/share.

You seem to be in a state of denial over a lot of this. Frontier is going to issue a statement in May stating how they lost $25M. They don't expect to turn a profit even through 2006. Their fuel is very inadequately hedged too, and I don't see the cost of oil dramatically decreasing anytime soon.

Yeah, just the kind of place I want to own stock in or participate in profit sharing. Tell me again why the financials are so good?

Oh, and I did review the 10K. Not bad, but not real good either.

 

[VABB]

LOL - I just about fell off of my seat laughing when I read this...when I viewed the posts by BLABB, I came across this little gem:


"I am an analyst, and one of my specialties is airlines."

Oh my God - VABB, you might want to find a different job, since you obviously suck at this one. I understand Home Depot is hiring janitors. Poor little bastard.

I can't be a janitor at Home Depot, they will only hire you if you have been a previous Frontier pilot.

Why? Because who else would be well poised to clean toilets for low wages. Very similar to life at F9.

 

[ChinaClipper]

This is stupid.....

This the kinda smack ya get on the regional board; I know many man good folk at AWA, and MOST would be embarassed to acknowledge VABB as one of thier own. It very well may be that the best reason to go to Frontier is to never have to spend even one MILLISECOND in the presence of a stark raving Dirty Sanchez lovin' wanker named VABB! Anywho, the 401K match is 50% up to 10% gross pay, through Fidelity......BTW Another good reason to go to F9 is because we have never hired anyone from Freedumb Air!

 

[AnimalTale]

VABB,

I really like you. I really like AWA too! I am glad you fly for a better airline than F9. Enjoy it!

Knowing that I have no retirement (esop,profit sharing, 401k match, plus 125% overtimepay) and I work my A$$ off at F9(yah right, avg line 16.5 days off ), I have decided to make millions in real estate, so I dont have to worry about the airlines I fly for.
Besides VABB, I think at one time I was given the number P2136.
I was greedy and left for a retirement. I can tell you this (believe it or not)
F9 is the best place I have worked, did you get denied? Too bad.

For now and the near future my $$$$(money) is with F9. Although I do like AWA, a lot.

I will now go and pray for you and the anger/frustration you hold for F9. Let it go, enjoy AWA. Do not embaress your pilot group with your ignorant rants.

Cya Chap,

 

[VABB]

VABB,

I really like you. I really like AWA too! I am glad you fly for a better airline than F9. Enjoy it!

Knowing that I have no retirement (esop,profit sharing, 401k match, plus 125% overtimepay) and I work my A$$ off at F9(yah right, avg line 16.5 days off ), I have decided to make millions in real estate, so I dont have to worry about the airlines I fly for.
Besides VABB, I think at one time I was given the number P2136.
I was greedy and left for a retirement. I can tell you this (believe it or not)
F9 is the best place I have worked, did you get denied? Too bad.

For now and the near future my $$$$(money) is with F9. Although I do like AWA, a lot.

I will now go and pray for you and the anger/frustration you hold for F9. Let it go, enjoy AWA. Do not embaress your pilot group with your ignorant rants.

Cya Chap,

Is that the best you can do? "Oh, you're mad because they turned you down." Hah, you are that arrogant to assume that I actually applied to Frontier? I hate to burst your bubble, but I NEVER once applied to Frontier, EVER!!

My turn to ask a question. You think I'm bitter at Frontier because, as you say, "they turned me down." My question to you is are you at Frontier because NOBODY else would interview or hire you????

 

[AnimalTale]

Good morning,

Like I said, I pray for you. You only could wish to be hired at places that I have worked and been hired.

You wish the worst for everyone because envy gushes out of your veins. Believe me I know you dont work at AWA. They would never hire an idiot like you. Oh by the way what is your P number?

Also, get your facts right, One of the reasons I know you dont work at AWA is that you say that you dont work hard! My ARSE, your credit hours are in the 90s, with no overtime pay.

Get your facts straight, Im getting bored with you.

Cya

 

[Clyde]

This is truly one of the more amusing posts I've read in a while. Cut VABB some slack, it's probably just recess time at Romper Room and he's bored. I usually just ignore him.

I just wanted to add a small $0.02 contribution to this post. The latest newhire class here at Brown has people from different places, including Frontier. We've had some from AWA too.

Now, I know Frontier is a good place to work and the pay is good enough to make a very good living, and many Frontier pilots on the board say it's a great place. Just curious why someone would look to move on elsewhere, especially if your day begins at O-dark-thirty.

 

[AnimalTale]

Brown and Fed Ex are excellent places....Can you say PENSION!! PROFITS!! WIDEBODIES!! INTERNATIONAL!! More job security for now.

I think these are pretty good reasons to move to cargo if you are bottom of any seniority list, if you can muster the night flying.

cya

 

[jetalc]

I hate to burst your bubble, but I NEVER once applied to Frontier, EVER!!

Thank God - idiots like you don't belong here anyway. (And you call yourself an 'analyst' - bwaaaaaahhhh!!!)

Are you enjoying the attention, VABB?

 

[sluggo]

You have an excellent contact and the ball is rolling? So what? It takes a long time to even get an interview at AWA. If I was you I'd worry about GETTING an interview before you start thinking which airline you will go to. Sounds like you don't have a choice at this point. F9 hired you and AWA doesn't even know who you are. Hmmm.... tough choice.

I usually don't respond to idiots like you, but your the exception. Whats with the chip dude. I was just asking a question politely. It takes a long time to get an interview...Maybe 4 you gumby. This business is about contacts not about flight time. Every company I was interested in and applied, I had an interview at the first opportunity. know why, because I know how to make friends. You are probably like some of the jagoffs I hate to fly with. Get a life.

For all of the valid comments...Thanks! Best of luck to all. Sluggo

 

[Green]

Sluggo,

It is quite a long process to get hired by AWA even if you do have a good contact. Recently our HR announced that they have cancelled interviews untill summer at the earliest. I think we currently have a pool waiting for classdates. Of course things could change overnight but right now things are starting to slow down at AWA with regards to hiring.

 

[Guppiedriver]

BTW Another good reason to go to F9 is because we have never hired anyone from Freedumb Air!

Talk about regional board smack. Are you saying AWA has hired a Freedumb pilot?

 

[Frontier1]

I filled out an app with Frontier and am excited about their operation. Of course when I went to sent my online app I was left stuck because I needed a name of a Pilot, or employee there with their email address to push on any further. Anybody nice enough to give those golden nuggets out. I wish I new the pilots name on the list to see if maybe I actually do know something from F9. For now I have to hope a Frontier Pilot will jump on my flight so I can talk to him....Thanks for any info from F9 pilots....


PCE

Just walk the app in and tell them you are not there to make friends, or take names. Seems to work.

 

[Daddy]

I got called for an interview way back in September last year and I don't know anyone there at F9...there are others who have been called without any internal recs as well...good luck!

 

[jetalc]

I know of several people who have been hired at F9 without personal recs, Capt X. I believe the part about recommendations is in the "Supplements" section, isn't it? You should be able to send in you app without having filled that part out. Good luck, F9 is DEFINITELY worth waiting for - last of the Boeings goes away in one week, then it will be all Airbus. Good company, and prospects for profitibility are just as good if not better than any other airline out there. I would say 99% of the pilots are very content here!

 

[Hdawg]

Interviewed and placed in the pool in Aug 04, no internal rec.

 

[ultrarunner]

I have opportunities at both airlines...I've been hired at F9 & I hear class is ~1/2006. As far as America West, I have an excellent contact and the ball is rolling. If I we're to get hired at AWA....

Dude, you've got PLENTY of time on your hands. First of all, MUCH could happen in the airline industry in the 9 months before your class date. Secondly, you've got zip from AWA, and if you're lucky enough that Frontier makes good on their class date, you could well be on property there before you get anything from AWA.

My advice is don't quit your day job and worry choosing between two airlines once you have offers from both. And reassess the situation in 9 months.