Awa Merger

[PHXFLYR]

PHXFLYR,

Maybe I came off the wrong way here, but this thread has turned into a furloughee battle ground.

I didn't make the above up. The above change in language concerned the AWA communications chair enough to make a statement about it. Reps I have talked to also noticed the change and believe that they may want to include these guys as active pilots - not furloughees. This change in language also concerned a pilot enough to ask Doug Parker about it at Wednesday's brown bag. Parker is very clear when it comes to furloughed vs. active status.

I didn't really do much homework, but I didn't just post this out of thin air either.

I would take what our illustrious Communication Chair says with a grain of salt.I
believe what they MAY be concerned about is the pilots at MidAtlantic Airlines that ARE NOT furloughed USAir pilots coming over in the event this merger should be approved. Those pilots never had a senority number at USAir and if the USAir MEC is trying to "Get THEM On Board" to paraphrase a familiar saying,then that is just plane wrong. But then again, it IS the USAir MEC we are talking about,is it not.....????

PHXFLYR

 

[PHXFLYR]

Blah, Blah blah....ya furlough battle ground. Whatever... Obviously the Jr. at AWA are pulling at straws, as the furlough number was adjusted to reflected those which have reached age 60/resigned/or deceased. I belive the original number was 1876. And the mention of the 400 or so, is the number of individuals that have taken a j4j position. Which was basically a flow back, in which most of us are flying and shown as ACTIVE on the AAA certificate, or flying for a wholly owned, which agreed to the J4J program, which created a CEL list consisting of all the WO pilots which now have the ability to flow UPWARDS to mainline. Ohhh wait..let me guess....the AWA want to cut all of them off to take advantage of the 1600-1900 retirements in the next 10 yrs or so??????
Yeah right... The furloughees deserve their position, as do the CEL pilots. These two groups are the ones that have paid the most out of this deal.

Crzipilot;

Again, by this post you show all who have the poor misfourtune of reading your
nonsense that you truly live up to your name. I agree wholeheartedly with you that the furloughees from Mainline currently flying at MDA or a J4J carrier deserve a place on the combined the senority list provided THEY DID NOT RESIGN THEIR USAIR SENIORITY NUMBER. Where on that list will be determined by an arbitrator ,which I find disappointing, but hey ,it is what it is. But to come out and say that the MDA pilots on the CEL list deserve a spot on the combined seniority list?? UH-UH..... NO WAY !!!! Those guys and gals NEVER HAD A USAIR SENORITY NUMBER A DAY IN THEIR LIFE. You know that as well as I do. And if you and your buddies are trying to push for that, rest assured that we on our end will push our MEC to make sure that that idea will never see the light of day . Before you start flaming away,keep in mind that I am a former 10 year employee at one of the CEL carriers and have many fine friends that have taken "advantage" of flowing thru to MDA...NOT mainline like you claim. Anyway, I think I had enough of all you web board experts for now. We now return to our originally scheduled program.....


PHXFLYR

 

[PHXFLYR]

Many FOs are 20 years plus for QOL.
I was just trying to get the facts out there and did
not intend to upset anybody. I know its a very stressful period.
I have no horse in this race, resigned long ago.
Best of luck to all of you.

You are a wise man, Kemosabee !!


PHXFLYR

 

[Filkster]

At the expense of how many Senior Mesa RJ F/O's........?


PHXFLYR

Yeah whatever.... I won't argue this since 1. it's Mesa and not worth the effort. 2. If you can't do the math with the J4J program and added airframes versus upgrades that would never happen anyway. Well it would not benefit either of us.

Besides the original point was to compare AWA's "way of doing things" with Mesa's.

RF

 

[BeCareful!]

I agree wholeheartedly with you that the furloughees from Mainline currently flying at MDA or a J4J carrier deserve a place on the combined the senority list provided THEY DID NOT RESIGN THEIR USAIR SENIORITY NUMBER.

Hey, cool......we agree. A few weeks ago you guys were saying I deserved nothing. Now, I deserve a spot. Thanks.

But to come out and say that the MDA pilots on the CEL list deserve a spot on the combined seniority list?? UH-UH..... NO WAY !!!! Those guys and gals NEVER HAD A USAIR SENORITY NUMBER A DAY IN THEIR LIFE.

Darn it. I wish you hadn't said that, because I really don't want to throw gas on your fire and all, but, in reality (the real one) those guys did get USAir seniority numbers in the deal. They are junior to all the J4J's, but they do have numbers. It's funny how, on this board, often, when someone posts something in all caps, it really is something they only think they are really, really sure of.

You know that as well as I do.

No....sorry PHXFLYR, apparently you know it better than everyone else who actually knows what's really transpired and what a mess it really is. I'm not happy about any of it, really, but it is kind of funny watching all the mis-information fly around, what with all the lord-almighty conviction in everyone's cyber-voices. Funny....haha....

Before you start flaming away,keep in mind that I am a former 10 year employee at one of the CEL carriers

Ah. Well that expalins a lot.

Anyway, I think I had enough of all you web board experts for now. We now return to our originally scheduled program.....

Me too. And hey, with facts and "expertise" such as your's blathered here daily, you've done quite enough. Take a well deserved rest, Sir......

 

[Marko Ramius]

Wow!

Don't you guys see the big picture? Of course Doug Parker said that his interpretation was furloughed is furloughed-it's to his advantage and inherently not to yours in most cases. Doug and the boys are dying to sell MDA to Republic. Personally I think the reason it wasn't announced with the deal itself is because this is easily the most important and explosive labor issue going forward. You guys are pissing all over yourselves about the rights or non-rights of MDA pilots which only a ruling by ALPA national or an arbitrator can ultimately decide instead of focusing on getting those birds on the property. With B6 about to launch an EMB-190 armada later this year, the new mantra will be that everyone has to have those aircraft. While you guys are throwing seniority rocks at each other, the 170's and the 190's will have left the barn along with alot more 737's and jobs. Parker just hopes pilots on both sides are too dumb to notice, and so far so good. Also it seems to me that too many HP pilots view this deal as solely a AAA issue. It's much bigger than that. The 170's/190's will spread west just like Parker's plans to move some of YV's CR9's to the east and more 737's may be toast. Even some of the older 320's with the old -A1 engines might be gone too as their desired capacity can be maintained with EMB's and CR9's. With no big new deliveries planned until '09 it could get alot uglier-and you can forget about a fence protecting you from all of this. I sincerely doubt any arbitrator is going to put up an operational fence of the magnitude desired by many. Equipment and initial bid restrictions for sure, but it's not going to be run like two separate companies behind some Great Wall of China fence just to appease DOH on one side and percieved advantage on the other.

P.S. From Jan.05 to Dec. 06 the combined airlines fleet of 737's will drop from 150 to 87 with only 4 additions(319's/320's) to the narrowbody fleet. Care to wager how many more 737's fall off the fleet and how quickly once the 190's come? At least you can look forward to reading articles about the 'synergies' achieved from having basically two fleets: 319/320/321/330 and 757/767.

 

[FR8mastr]

Marko,

You hit the nail on the head!

 

[BeCareful!]

Marko,

Fantastic, big-picture post. What labor should be doing right now is trying to get as many people on the mainline property as possible, from both sides, and not quibbling about who gets to be based in PHX or who gets to fly here at all. The immaturity of all that will kill many of our careers.

So here we are, wrapped up in Seniority Squalor, while the real windfall is going to CHQ.

stuipd!

 

[Cactus73]

Marko,

Excellent post!

I think we are well aware of the 90 seat growth explosion going on. Every day it seems we announce a new destination or flight and it's with a 86 seat 900 flown by MESA.

I think we should fight for all this flying to be put under our control with guys on the combined seniority list. Unfortunately, we have little control over this.

This is a huge issue.

 

[PHXFLYR]

Hey, cool......we agree. A few weeks ago you guys were saying I deserved nothing. Now, I deserve a spot. Thanks.





Darn it. I wish you hadn't said that, because I really don't want to throw gas on your fire and all, but, in reality (the real one) those guys did get USAir seniority numbers in the deal. They are junior to all the J4J's, but they do have numbers. It's funny how, on this board, often, when someone posts something in all caps, it really is something they only think they are really, really sure of.





No....sorry PHXFLYR, apparently you know it better than everyone else who actually knows what's really transpired and what a mess it really is. I'm not happy about any of it, really, but it is kind of funny watching all the mis-information fly around, what with all the lord-almighty conviction in everyone's cyber-voices. Funny....haha....





Ah. Well that expalins a lot.



Me too. And hey, with facts and "expertise" such as your's blathered here daily, you've done quite enough. Take a well deserved rest, Sir......

And 321 Bus driver wonders why I think so highly of the USAir folks. Oh well.......


PHXFLYR