AWA hiring US Airways furloughed pilots?

[wingit]

I've heard through the grapvine that AWA will have to hire from the US Airways furloughed pilots before they bring on pilots from their pool. Does anyone know anything about this? The last I heard from AWA is that they were still planning on hiring from the pool in the near future. I know everything is subject to change. I just want to hear what people might know about the matter.

 

[JetMonkey]

Its not that they HAVE to, that's what both mec's and management decided was the best decision.

 

[pnjohn75]

Last I heard is that they are considering hiring furloughed USAir pilots prior to hiring from the pool, or that both MEC's, and the company are discussing it.

The downside is that if they do decide to hire furloughed pilots prior the individuals in the pool, the company will wait to hire until the integration is complete, to prevent training events. Last I heard is 80 in the spring with another 80 or so next fall. But there are still rumors about possible hiring this year, to drain the pool, along with a bid message maybe next month.

Everything is in a state of flux to say the least. I'm not sure if the "newco" has even finalized the fleet plans? That being said, the rumors range from a captain bid message, to pending possible furlough's, and everything else in between.

I am not in the "know", but this is the latest I've heard, all else has been relatively quite. The calm before the storm?

Good luck to us all!

 

[furloughfodder]

Will they be hiring these furloughed USAir guys as new hires? Or will they retain their seniority?

 

[JetMonkey]

Will they be hiring these furloughed USAir guys as new hires? Or will they retain their seniority?

Its a new company.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Its a new company.

Soooo, I guess you are saying that all pilots on the property start over at first year wages?

Valid question since many of the furloughees have 15 years in with U. Will they be slotted in with the merger or boned out of their 1.5 decades with the airline?

Possibly fences on the 330's and 767's? Given U history in the past few years granted that there is not much happening there, however they are bringing routes and equipment that AWA has never come close to being able to operate on their own.

 

[Guppiedriver]

Soooo, I guess you are saying that all pilots on the property start over at first year wages?

Valid question since many of the furloughees have 15 years in with U. Will they be slotted in with the merger or boned out of their 1.5 decades with the airline?

Possibly fences on the 330's and 767's? Given U history in the past few years granted that there is not much happening there, however they are bringing routes and equipment that AWA has never come close to being able to operate on their own.

Our MEC has reported that if furloughed airways pilots are hired, they will retain longevity, not seniority. Longevity for time on the property, not including furlough. Furloughee's will not be slotted. That is more than fair.

Don't forget, America West operated 747's to HNL and Japan.

 

[JetMonkey]

Soooo, I guess you are saying that all pilots on the property start over at first year wages?

I didn't say that. Senority is more than wages, if these guys get to keep their years towards pay purposes then hey that's great, I'd be happy for them. I'm just pointing out that its not your daddy's old's anymore, these guys and gals will not be returning to the same company they left. I'm not trying to make an issue out of this, besides the two companies will still have to stay separate for two years and we WILL bring on new hires during this time. Wanna take a guess as to which side of the fence they'll be coming to?

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Our MEC has reported that if furloughed airways pilots are hired, they will retain longevity, not seniority. Longevity for time on the property, not including furlough. Furloughee's will not be slotted. That is more than fair.

Don't forget, America West operated 747's to HNL and Japan.

As long as they keep their longevity for pay purposes I do not see a real issue. After all it is not about the seat your in, but the pay in the wallet anyhow.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Wanna take a guess as to which side of the fence they'll be coming to?

No way, seen too many mergers to make that call. Most of the time it is nothing like you expect it to be.

Is the plan still to keep the USAirways name? If so, that may throw a monkey wrench into the AWA guys plans about a merger policy. I would guess you will see some pretty long fences built up around the international flying, given the precidents set in the previous mergers.

Of course, all this is speculation.

 

[Prog 2/2]

No way, seen too many mergers to make that call. Most of the time it is nothing like you expect it to be.

Is the plan still to keep the USAirways name? If so, that may throw a monkey wrench into the AWA guys plans about a merger policy. I would guess you will see some pretty long fences built up around the international flying, given the precidents set in the previous mergers.

Of course, all this is speculation.

And not even well-informed speculation at that.

Yes, the combined airline will be called US Airways. No, it won't throw a monkey wrench in anything.

Reference a previous post of yours, nobody is getting "boned" out of anything. Unfortunately, many of the US Airways furloughees have a substantial number of years with the company, but there is no applicable merger precedent that would bring back a furloughee to replace a working pilot.

As for fences, they work both ways. AWA will begin service to Hawaii in December, should the US Air guys be fenced off that by virtue of the fact that they don't go there now? It has been my past experience with mergers that fences cause more long-term heartburn than almost any other aspect of integration methodology.

Not trying to pick on you, but your choice of the word "boned" was a bad one and you could do with a little better understanding of the factors at play.

 

[LearLove]

No way, seen too many mergers to make that call. Most of the time it is nothing like you expect it to be.

Is the plan still to keep the USAirways name? If so, that may throw a monkey wrench into the AWA guys plans about a merger policy. I would guess you will see some pretty long fences built up around the international flying, given the precidents set in the previous mergers.

Of course, all this is speculation.

What the he11 is this guys talking about?

 

[Fly-n-hi]

For the furloughed AAA pilots to get a job at the bottom of the list with previous longevity is more than generous. Maybe they've been at AAA for 15 years...but that includes 5 to 6 years or more of being furloughed.

As for US Airways flying A330's and 767's...so what??? They can keep 'em. Put fences up...I don't care. We'll be flying the A350's when they come anyways.

Everyone needs to understand this: America West is stonger of the two carriers. US Airways is not going to dictate terms to us.

 

[Formula1]

The question is "How many of the furloughed USAir guys and gals will come back when offered the job at the new USAir?" If there are supposedly 2000 or so on furlough- then will half of them even want the job?


Just curious,

 

[Fly-n-hi]

BTW,

We are going to offer the AAA pilots first crack at any new jobs. It will not be a recall. They have no rights at the new airline. If they don't want to be here, or if they think it's unfair that they don't get their original seniority, blah, blah, blah, they can simply find a job somewhere else.

I know quite a few guys from the regionals who would like to work here.

 

[BenderGonzales]

Very respectfully sir, I think its honorable that you will make that offer to the US Airways furloughees -- but...

... they are still US Airways pilots and, as such, will be integrated as per the arbitrator's decision.

I dont believe a furloughed pilot will replace one who is currently flying, but none of us can say right now if an arbitrator will grant anything for previous time in service.

Why dont we just wait and see. In the meantime though, thanks for at least THINKING of the furloughees -- its more than US Airways managent or ALPA has done.

 

[Hawkered]

Arrrgh.. the USAirways..you owe me..attitude bites again!!!

Weren't you the guys running around with date of hire sh!t when you were jumpseating on United a few years ago saying those captains on shiny metal would be "beneath you", when Wolfe completed his United beat up?

Don't you guys ever friggin' get it?!!

You're broke, always have been and always will be.

Your safety record sucks, the attitude of your staff sucks, you've operated about 17 different aircraft types in the last ten years and changed management like socks. You don't have a defined route structure anywhere West of Pittsburgh and you all cry about how hard life is.

How 'bout you guys learn a lesson in life called humility and thank Parker for even considering contemplating the nightmare he is bringing on himself and his entire staff at AWA?

The alternative is, "Would you like fries with that?"

 

[TWA Dude]

It will not be a recall. They have no rights at the new airline.

The new airline does not abrogate their recall rights. That's a false rumor. The furloughees will be recalled when we start hiring again. The Transition Agreement will dictate the terms but I would expect them to receive longevity pay and a seniority number at the bottom. When the combined seniority list integration is complete it's theoretically possible that their number could be adjusted but I don't anticipate that happening.

Just some points in general to both sides: no pilot here is "entitled" to any job. The airline owns the flying, not the pilots. None of us deserves anything less than the best we can negotiate. If a USA guy says he wants a DOH integration I take no offense because that's merely a bargaining position. AWA is the financially better-off carrier but as I preached during the TWA/AA integration I don't believe a pilot's worth is determined by the financial health of his employer. Recognizing that each side has very different opinions as to what constitutes fairness I suspect it will come down to the arbitrator and come what may we'll have to accept it. As always the bitterness will last forever for some but most of us will deal with it and move forward.

 

[KeroseneSnorter]

Not trying to pick on you, but your choice of the word "boned" was a bad one and you could do with a little better understanding of the factors at play.

I understand much more than I care to believe me.

As to the "boned".........They had 15 years in, their flying was replaced by kids in RJ's that were willing to fly it for nothing, their entire retirement was removed from them with no vote or input of anykind (several BILLION mind you), and their CEO gutted the company and took off with millions to line his own pocket. Now they would be a "newhire" at their own company (It is a merger, so it is both of your companies now).

I think boned is a pretty good word for their situation.

I doubt that any of them care about what seat they are in or what senority number they have, Longevity for pay is most likely what is important to them since many are in their late 40's.

Not trying to start a war here, just looking at the situation.

 

[Cactus73]

The new airline does not abrogate their recall rights. That's a false rumor. The furloughees will be recalled when we start hiring again. The Transition Agreement will dictate the terms but I would expect them to receive longevity pay and a seniority number at the bottom. When the combined seniority list integration is complete it's theoretically possible that their number could be adjusted but I don't anticipate that happening.

Just some points in general to both sides: no pilot here is "entitled" to any job. The airline owns the flying, not the pilots. None of us deserves anything less than the best we can negotiate. If a USA guy says he wants a DOH integration I take no offense because that's merely a bargaining position. AWA is the financially better-off carrier but as I preached during the TWA/AA integration I don't believe a pilot's worth is determined by the financial health of his employer. Recognizing that each side has very different opinions as to what constitutes fairness I suspect it will come down to the arbitrator and come what may we'll have to accept it. As always the bitterness will last forever for some but most of us will deal with it and move forward.

TWA Dude, We can always count on you for a voice of reason when the argument gets heated. I agree with absolutely everything you said!!

For the others,

How many times do we have to say that the name of the company means NOTHING. There are no wrenches, curve balls, etc...by calling our new company USAirway's. The name is actually being assigned to the merger of America West Holdings and the Barbell Corporation which holds custodialship over the USAirway's Group in this transaction. If you are bored, they just put out a few hundred page prospectus on the merger that you can read. It explains the transaction in great detail.

The Company and both MEC's have agreed to hire pilots from the US Airway's furlough list before taking from the pool. The terms aren't public but our MEC did put out a blastmail stating that the off the street pool guys are basically out of luck. There will be NO true new hires at US Airway's or AWA for many years.
The details of the furloughed pilots return is unknown by us line people, and any statements regarding pay, seniority, etc...are pure speculation.

It seems that the AAA guys forgot that AWA operated 747's for a few YEARS. I have flown with many captains that flew the 747's. To say that these guys never had a hope of flying wide bodied equipment again is just pure speculation again. You would have to be a fly on the wall of the AWA BOD to truly know future fleet plans.
Should you be fenced off 757 Hawaii flying because you didn't bring it to the table?

Fences can be dangerous. Careful what you wish for. Most guys don't want your 330/767 flying.

Back to the original topic. The furloughed pilots of AAA will be considered at the newco before any poolies or off the street hires. That is all we know.

 

[AA717driver]

The new airline does not abrogate their recall rights. That's a false rumor. The furloughees will be recalled when we start hiring again. The Transition Agreement will dictate the terms but I would expect them to receive longevity pay and a seniority number at the bottom. When the combined seniority list integration is complete it's theoretically possible that their number could be adjusted but I don't anticipate that happening.

Just some points in general to both sides: no pilot here is "entitled" to any job. The airline owns the flying, not the pilots. None of us deserves anything less than the best we can negotiate. If a USA guy says he wants a DOH integration I take no offense because that's merely a bargaining position. AWA is the financially better-off carrier but as I preached during the TWA/AA integration I don't believe a pilot's worth is determined by the financial health of his employer. Recognizing that each side has very different opinions as to what constitutes fairness I suspect it will come down to the arbitrator and come what may we'll have to accept it. As always the bitterness will last forever for some but most of us will deal with it and move forward.

BAH! Where did you get that attitude? Certainly not from me. I clearly failed you in your apprenticeship as an airline pilot. Where's the rancor, the bitterness, the drive to screw your fellow pilots?

At this point, I don't even think you CAN be rehabilitated. A sad loss--so much potential, wasted. TC

 

[Guppiedriver]

I would guess you will see some pretty long fences built up around the international flying, given the precidents set in the previous mergers.

Of course, all this is speculation.

Why does everybody make such a big deal about the international widebody flying? Hmmm....if it paid better than $144 an hour it might be interesting.........nope it would still suck.

 

[NorskAir]

Fly-n-hi and Hawkered.

Why so bitter? Don't let your attitudes ruin your next 20 years; this is only a job. Most of the AAA guys/gals have no control over this process, and neither have you. Spewing venom on this board does absolutely nothing to make this merger successful.

 

[TWA Dude]

I clearly failed you in your apprenticeship as an airline pilot.

TC: I thought you were in Rangoon or Ouagadougou or sumthin with that shiny G-VII jet. Sat-phone dial-up internet must be great. It's only after two years of intensive Michael Moore therapy that I'm fully recovered from your indoctrination, er, apprenticeship. You had me convinced that you were the original "compassionate conservative" and the Dubya had stolen the label from you. I just don't know what to believe anymore. Time for another Yuengling. Peace up, bro.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

Why does everybody make such a big deal about the international widebody flying? Hmmm....if it paid better than $144 an hour it might be interesting.........nope it would still suck.

Funny, I was thinking the same thing. I thought flying widebody Int'l would be the ticket until I did a 7hr JFK to SAN FRAN last winter and realized that my A$$ has a six hour capacity sticker on it . Absolutly no desire to be in a a/c that long, I don't care if you do have bunkies it just too dam long...

WD.

 

[BenderGonzales]

Unless the combined airline does something miraculous to produce a profit with oil at $65-$70/barrel many of us may choose not to come back.

I wish everyone the best, but unless the new US Airways is setting the world on fire I have no interest in being someone else's furlough insurance again.

I really hope you guys are able to pull it off and kick some butt!!!

(for those of you in the pool, don't lose hope. The number of people who accept a recall from the new US Airways may be much, much smaller than you imagine)

 

[Prog 2/2]

BAH! Where did you get that attitude? Certainly not from me. I clearly failed you in your apprenticeship as an airline pilot. Where's the rancor, the bitterness, the drive to screw your fellow pilots?

At this point, I don't even think you CAN be rehabilitated. A sad loss--so much potential, wasted. TC

Wait, I think I can bring him back from the touchy-feely abyss.........

TWA Dude, just chant with me....

"APA is my union"........"K-Mart and Nordstroms"......."Hot Dog vendors"................"Two great airlines, one great future".......

Does that bring it all back for you?

 

[Fly-n-hi]

Fly-n-hi and Hawkered.

Why so bitter? Don't let your attitudes ruin your next 20 years; this is only a job. Most of the AAA guys/gals have no control over this process, and neither have you. Spewing venom on this board does absolutely nothing to make this merger successful.

There is no hatred.

Just the other day, when the new US Airways plane was flying thru LAS/PHX we had some US Airways FO start telling us how he was looking forward to bidding into PHX and upgrading, etc...no lie. He wasn't being mean spirited, I don't think. The CA and a couple of other AAA pilots wouldn't even acknowledge that we were there. Maybe you should be talking to these guys.

Now I don't get a chance to talk to too many AAA guys, and I don't believe they are all like these particular ones, but my message goes out to those types.

I'm not spewing venom. The truth is that any type of job offer with original longevity is completely generous. You don't think so?? Is this a hateful attitude??

Also the truth is that AWA is in much better shape than US Airways. AWA would most likely be fine without the merger. The same cannot be said for US Airways. This is common sense. So for a US Airways pilot to tell me how things should be is a bit rediculous. Having said that...I don't know any AWA pilot who wants to "hose" the US Air pilots (yes there might be a few out there).

Don't let my attitude ruin the next 20 years?? I have 30 years left and I don't want to those 30 years to to be dreadful. I do a fine job keeping this stuff at home and out of the cockpit. Besides, be it right or wrong, I can tell you that there will be a US Airways/AWA division for the next 20 years. Just ask the Piedmont, PSA, Republic, TWA, Western, National, and Pan Am people.

I can honestly say that I have prayed that US Airways, along with other struggling airlines, would find a way to survive (You can ask God when you meet him to see if that's true). I don't want people, especially those with families, loose their jobs. I don't hate US Airways, but I don't want their survival to come at my expense, and there is absolutely nothing wrong with this attitude.

 

[Dangerkitty]

"APA is my union"........"K-Mart and Nordstroms".......

Actually, it was K-Mart and Saks

 

[rudderdog]

Actually, it was K-Mart and Saks

Double check that old union rep generated message.....It really was K-Mart and Nordstroms.