AWA/AAA negotiations update

[PositiveRate]

Weasel....why the delete? Did you finally realize the East leadership is full of $hit?

I'll give you this....you made a good choice to not return from furlough.

This airline had more chances than any should to become good again. Dougweiser and your non furloughed union associates are doing their level best to ensure it remains a miserable place for years to come...it's all about spite now, and that's what makes it so pathetic.

 

[JT8D]

PositiveRate,

I don't know why you go thru such trouble to create elaborate graphics, schematics, and multiple colors in your three page posts..when it can all be summed in one statement...

NO WAY AWA!!!

 

[PositiveRate]

It's called cut and paste.

You're summation is a very good example of the pathetic road many are willing to walk.

The facts of the past months speak for themselves...

 

[weasel_lips]

Weasel....why the delete? Did you finally realize the East leadership is full of $hit?

I'll give you this....you made a good choice to not return from furlough.

This airline had more chances than any should to become good again. Dougweiser and your non furloughed union associates are doing their level best to ensure it remains a miserable place for years to come...it's all about spite now, and that's what makes it so pathetic.

These posts, for the most part, are emanating from West FO’s who are unhappy because their QOL, pay, and seniority are not improving. Were you thinking “merger today, upgrade and pay raise tomorrow”?

You blame your unhappiness on the East. You guys love to complain about those darn East pilots. How terrible they are. How you can’t stand them or their elected representation. Are you telling me that prior to the merger AWA was the envy of the industry?

The East pilot’s are using every legal means available to protect their interests. They are not running a popularity contest to win the affection of Mesa alumni now eyeing a fast upgrade. Do you really expect someone to give up 16+ years of seniority without a fight? Would you?

Why did the West MEC file a grievance to remove date of hire from non-rev boarding priority? Why did they go on record opposing the East pilots getting brought up to equal pay? Why do they refuse to discuss a fix for the seniority list? Point here is that it takes two to tango. It is like the pot calling the kettle black.

A likely outcome is two separate operations with the possibility of each division eventually being sold off.

 

[AutoBus]

These posts, for the most part, are emanating from West FO’s who are unhappy because their QOL, pay, and seniority are not improving. Were you thinking “merger today, upgrade and pay raise tomorrow”?

Actually, without the merger we would have upgraded long ago.

The East pilot’s are using every legal means available to protect their interests. They are not running a popularity contest to win the affection of Mesa alumni now eyeing a fast upgrade. Do you really expect someone to give up 16+ years of seniority without a fight? Would you?

Nobody is asking anyone to give up senority, your 16+ year east guy occupied the very bottom of the east senioirty list on the date of the merger, where do you think he belongs?

Why did the West MEC file a grievance to remove date of hire from non-rev boarding priority? .

The west's system was a first come first served system, that's what we were used too.

Why did they go on record opposing the East pilots getting brought up to equal pay? .

No one is opposed to equal pay, we are opposed to backroom deals that delays a joint contract. Plus while the EAST pay rates are less, other things in their contract make about equal in total cost.

Why do they refuse to discuss a fix for the seniority list? Point here is that it takes two to tango. It is like the pot calling the kettle black.

Because it's not broken, we had meetings, mediation, and finnaly arbitration. Both sides agreed to let someelse come up with the fix, it's seems one side can't deal with it.

 

[A350]

I hear the decert drive has over 50% of the group in....should be very interesting.

A350

 

[JT8D]

These posts, for the most part, are emanating from West FO’s who are unhappy because their QOL, pay, and seniority are not improving. Were you thinking “merger today, upgrade and pay raise tomorrow”?

You blame your unhappiness on the East. You guys love to complain about those darn East pilots. How terrible they are. How you can’t stand them or their elected representation. Are you telling me that prior to the merger AWA was the envy of the industry?

The East pilot’s are using every legal means available to protect their interests. They are not running a popularity contest to win the affection of Mesa alumni now eyeing a fast upgrade. Do you really expect someone to give up 16+ years of seniority without a fight? Would you?

Why did the West MEC file a grievance to remove date of hire from non-rev boarding priority? Why did they go on record opposing the East pilots getting brought up to equal pay? Why do they refuse to discuss a fix for the seniority list? Point here is that it takes two to tango. It is like the pot calling the kettle black.

A likely outcome is two separate operations with the possibility of each division eventually being sold off.

Good post weasel.

Nicely put and well thought out.

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

Nice post? I crap nicer posts than that....

 

[PlaneDrvr]

Good post weasel.

Nicely put and well thought out.

Ditto!! Good post weasel.

 

[PositiveRate]

Serious?

His post spouts the typical propoganda.

Pay parity - please...more like attempt to gain contractual benefits outside of the Transition Agreement and allow for indefinite delay tactics and possibly separate ops. Typical scumbag move to get what you want, because it is all about YOU...Total disregard for anything that does not directly and fully benefit the East.

Non-rev - We filed a grievance because we were previously on a first come first serve system and our contract specifically states we shall not have benefits degraded from the status quo. Here's to enjoying the only LOS award you're going to get out of this merger. This was a typical management blunder in order to calm the screaming child.

Their soft handed techniques have allowed our divisions to grow and take full root.

Discuss a 'fix' to the seniority list?? Are you for real? The East leadership doesn't want a "fix" - they want it invalidated and are searching for a way to force their own vision of "fair" down the West's throat...right now that means hijacking the JNC process.

If you had chosen to be reasonable and honorable instead of trying to stick it to us before and after NEGOTIATIONS, MEDIATION, AND ARBITRATION, we wouldn't be having this discussion.

AWA being the envy of the industry?? Please. Never implied that or even came close. See, we don't have the self confidence issues that are typical of arrogant people. We chose to work for AWA - for various reasons. It was a nice place to be - now it is not. I blame this on DOUG PARKER failing to lead - by trying to please all, he has pleased no one. I next place blame on the EAST LEADERSHIP for holding an unreasonable and offensive hard line throughout. It is getting harder and harder to not blame the EAST PILOTS - you can only hear so much spew from their leadership without retort before you believe this is actually what the majority want/believe.

 

[bigtexpilot]

I have decided. Once all this sh!t is straightened out, if it gets straightened out, I'm bidding the biggest aircraft I can hold on the east coast. Just for spite.
Oh yea, I hope ALPA gets decertified pretty quick so they can hurry-up and hand over that list.

 

[Green]

Easy, killer. I said "negotiate", which means a give-and-take as opposed to unilateral concessions. Without a gun to our head we can talk. Of course, conducting negotiations is no guarantee of success.

And what could the East POSSIBLY offer us???? I can't think of a thing. Sounds like typical AWA negotiating against ourselves tactics. It's no surprise we have always been paid crap wages and are currently asking for crap wages as an opener. Time to stand up and act like a major airline for once. We don't negotiate with terrorists and we don't give away an arbitrated award. Do you think for a MINUTE that if the East had stapled our airline they'd be willing to offer us a godda#n thing? heck no...

 

[AA717driver]

Can the West MEC not file a DFR against ALPA for refusing to submit a legal list to the company?

If the decert is successful and no list is in place, I'd start moving flying west. Sorry, but AWA has an airline to run. The arbitration was done by the book. Life goes on. TC

P.S.--I understand TWAdude's desire for a peaceful resolution but you've got to unleash the dogs at some point.

 

[TWA Dude]

And what could the East POSSIBLY offer us???? I can't think of a thing.

Nor can I. That's not the point. The point is getting them to follow the rules rather than trying to circumvent them.

Can the West MEC not file a DFR against ALPA for refusing to submit a legal list to the company?

Yes. We can't do it yet because technically they don't have to present it yet. Stay tuned.

P.S.--I understand TWAdude's desire for a peaceful resolution but you've got to unleash the dogs at some point.

Just to be clear, I seek no "peaceful resolution" until the East drops the suit, drops the decert drive, and accepts the Nic Award. After that the civilized talks can begin.

 

[PositiveRate]

The real intent of this thread was to point out that managment is turning a corner from apathy to actively pushing for forward progress.

I believe most of the fuel for the East dribble has come from our half-witted management team keeping their distance. Everyone knows this was played by the book - allowing the East to run with their lies has led them to start believing themselves. As our managment tighten the reigns and pushes for negotiations (AS AGREED UPON IN THE TRANS AGREEMENT), this will all start going away.

My prediction - a TA to vote on by Christmas. The one thing that will save us from civil war is that we are all pretty entrenched in our bases. It will be many years before you see much voluntary mixing of sides.

 

[JetMonkey]

Exactly. My hope is years from now when the east sees just how many pilots actually bidded and went to an east coast base (which won't be many) hopefully they'll see the stupidity of their actions and realize how much of a total waste of time it all was.

 

[JT8D]

P.S.--I understand TWAdude's desire for a peaceful resolution but you've got to unleash the dogs at some point.

This one made my day.

What "dogs"?

Have you any idea the history of AWA pilot negotiations?...even in GOOD TIMES?

Weak sisters is putting it mildly.

The "dog" of which you speak is a miniature poodle named "Fluffy' with ribbons tied to its ears.

 

[ironspud]

This one made my day.

What "dogs"?

Have you any idea the history of AWA pilot negotiations?...even in GOOD TIMES?

Weak sisters is putting it mildly.

The "dog" of which you speak is a miniature poodle named "Fluffy' with ribbons tied to its ears.

You're wrong. "Poodledum" is for Chippy and the GAG.

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

And soon, fluffy will poop all over you...

 

[JT8D]

And soon, fluffy will poop all over you...

Bring it don't sing it.

 

[cactusboy53]

No. We are COMPLETELY fed up with Jack's antics. YOUR MEC and Merger Committee signed on for BINDING ARBITRATION after you couldn't negotiate for date of hire (because it IS NOT IN THE MERGER POLICY...didn't you read it?). What's so difficult to understand about that?

What's truly laughable, is that Jack is costing your group a HUGE amount of money and benefits...all for that blessed East coast left seat. Is PHL really that GREAT, that you would think that we would rush to the East just to be king? Life is too short for that my friend. It's truly a case of failing to see the forest for the the trees.

Go ahead. Keep delaying. We have upgrades and are going to do new hires here in the west. Better pay, more vacation and better scheduling section.

 

[reepicheep]

TEST: January. Take a walk outside, look around. How's the weather? Are you in PIT? PHL? NY? BOS? Is there much difference?

TEST: January. Take a walk outside, look around. How's the weather? Are you in PHL? or PHX, or LAS? Any difference?

Still think west pilots are going to commute or move in droves 2,000 miles to scrape salt and sleet off their shoes just so they can fly between PHL and ALB all day in a ratty old 737-300?

I would guesstimate you're looking at 50-75 AWA pilots who live in the east and are brave enough to wade into that quagmire. OTOH, there are still loads of PSA and others at Airways who still commute from the west or would move back at the drop of a hat if there was a domicile. In fact, it'd be kind of a...windfall. Maybe as many as 300 or so, I'd bet.

Separate lists/contracts? Yes please!

 

[Golden Falcon]

Now you see why HP is what it is, and why USAir was what it was..the rusties ruined Piedmont...now they are trying again!!!

 

[grog_sit_reserv]

I'll put it in the mail for you... PM me your addy.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

This one made my day.

What "dogs"?

Have you any idea the history of AWA pilot negotiations?...even in GOOD TIMES?

Weak sisters is putting it mildly.

The "dog" of which you speak is a miniature poodle named "Fluffy' with ribbons tied to its ears.

Hahahahah:laugh: :laugh: Wow that is as funny as LOA 93.

WD.

 

[Wiskey Driver]

I hear the decert drive has over 50% of the group in....should be very interesting.

A350

Really??? From what I hear they have only collected just over 1000 cards barely a 1/3 of what they need! I am only guessing here but I bet those mortgage,car and student loans payments are starting to get stuck in the back of their minds. Throwing away thousands of dollars a month is really hurting huh???

WD

 

[AA717driver]

This one made my day.

What "dogs"?

Have you any idea the history of AWA pilot negotiations?...even in GOOD TIMES?

Weak sisters is putting it mildly.

The "dog" of which you speak is a miniature poodle named "Fluffy' with ribbons tied to its ears.

Uh, they've got a higher pay scale than U do...

You're living in the past. Ed's long gone. USAir is "the airline that Seth built". U better take what it's got and be happy. TC

 

[AutoBus]

Uh, they've got a higher pay scale than U do...

You're living in the past. Ed's long gone. USAir is "the airline that Seth built". U better take what it's got and be happy. TC

Don't forget Steve's and Rakesh's "Airline of substance, style and international reach"

GhettoJet, Operation High Ground, Business Select (my favorite)

 

[Boeing747Driver]

Don't forget Steve's and Rakesh's "Airline of substance, style and international reach"

GhettoJet, Operation High Ground, Business Select (my favorite)

Getto jet. No one fought for equal pay on that one.