Avantair

[52Vincent]

Has anyone heard from Avantair?

Yeah, Got the thanks but no thanks letter.

 

[johnsonrod]

Yeah, Got the thanks but no thanks letter.

I guess your Citation X experience far exceeded what they were looking for...

 

[wacoflyr]

Yeah, Got the thanks but no thanks letter.

That sucks. We are hiring something like six a month, and I know they are being very, very picky. Because they can be. I don't know what they are looking for, (they don't tell us) but it might not necessarily be endless experience. What we do is not for everybody, and I think they try to find people who they believe will like what we do.

Things are going to change. Southwest is supposed to hire a ton this year. Everybody is ramping up. Meanwhile, the schools in Florida are only teaching foreign students, because the banks won't loan young fools north of a hundred grand anymore for a job that starts way below what a bus driver makes. Age 65 hits in the middle of next year, and if Congress has its way, pilots will need 1500 hours to get on with the commuters. The NTSB is hot to change rest rules, which will require even more pilots. And the military is hanging on to their pilots, because they are going to lose money to train with.

Is there going to be a pilot shortage? This has been predicted so many times that it has become a joke, and I will not predict that. But I do think it will soon be easier to get a job.

I hope you land a spot at a good place. I like it here, but obviously there are better jobs out there. Best of luck.

 

[52Vincent]

I guess your Citation X experience far exceeded what they were looking for...

HAHA, Yeah who would have thought that.

That sucks. We are hiring something like six a month, and I know they are being very, very picky. Because they can be. I don't know what they are looking for, (they don't tell us) but it might not necessarily be endless experience. What we do is not for everybody, and I think they try to find people who they believe will like what we do.

Things are going to change. Southwest is supposed to hire a ton this year. Everybody is ramping up. Meanwhile, the schools in Florida are only teaching foreign students, because the banks won't loan young fools north of a hundred grand anymore for a job that starts way below what a bus driver makes. Age 65 hits in the middle of next year, and if Congress has its way, pilots will need 1500 hours to get on with the commuters. The NTSB is hot to change rest rules, which will require even more pilots. And the military is hanging on to their pilots, because they are going to lose money to train with.

Is there going to be a pilot shortage? This has been predicted so many times that it has become a joke, and I will not predict that. But I do think it will soon be easier to get a job.

I hope you land a spot at a good place. I like it here, but obviously there are better jobs out there. Best of luck.

Some good thoughts, funny thing is I did the fractional thing for a while and I do like it; but I do have an offer and start ground school on the 21st. I am quite excited especially cause I have not flown in over 2 years. Still not quite sure why I stuck it out.

 

[rettofly]

HAHA, Yeah who would have thought that.



Some good thoughts, funny thing is I did the fractional thing for a while and I do like it; but I do have an offer and start ground school on the 21st. I am quite excited especially cause I have not flown in over 2 years. Still not quite sure why I stuck it out.

:beer: Good on you!

 

[clueless]

Avantair is still an awesome place to work

Wrong. Southwest is an awesome place to work. Avantair is a barely tolerable holding pattern until you find someplace better. (8 & 6? With maybe getting home on day 9 only to turn around and do it again 5 days later? Sheesh.)

With 401(k) match and profit sharing, the laziest 2nd year FO on SWA's list earns more than a maxed out Avantair captain. With 18 days off a month and nothing longer than a 4 day trip.

Sorry for the reality check.

 

[AftCG182]

Wrong. Southwest is an awesome place to work. Avantair is a barely tolerable holding pattern until you find someplace better. (8 & 6? With maybe getting home on day 9 only to turn around and do it again 5 days later? Sheesh.)

A consistant, regular schedule is important to those of us with young families. Ask any family therapist; consistancy is better for the emotional development of our children. On another personal level, bidding month after month for a schedule is nothing short of ridiculous. I'd like to be able to plan more than two weeks out. 8 & 6? Big deal. Afraid of a little hard work?

With 401(k) match and profit sharing, the laziest 2nd year FO on SWA's list earns more than a maxed out Avantair captain. With 18 days off a month and nothing longer than a 4 day trip.

Enjoy it while it's working. Southwest's low-balling of fares has driven the industry into a shadow of what it used to be. Combine that with kids flying regional jets for welfare wages, and our "respectable professsion" has sunk to a low that we may never be able to recover from. Forget about cutting what few amenities are left, raise the fares to where they need to be.

Sorry for the reality check.

Rising fuel prices combined with the end of your fuel hedging are going to provide YOU with one hell of a reality check in the not-too-distant future, my friend. As we all know, aviation is one motherf-er of a cycle. Your next downturn might not be too pleasant.

Sorry for the reality check.

No offense to my friends at Southwest. They know that I have no intention of returning to the 121 lifestyle. It's just my opinion, anyway.

 

[johnsonrod]

SWA ain't perfect - especially for newbies

Plus, who wants an 18 year upgrade? Newbies at SWA will make some great coin (no doubt about that) but they will be sitting in that right seat for more than a decade and a half and they will hit the same destinations over and over and over (thankfully AirTran will add some new destinations to the mix). Some will jump at the opportunity but it isn't for everyone...

From what I hear, Avantair is unique but it probably isn't for everyone either. Great/fun airplane to fly, tremendous variation in destinations (see the entire country - on one tour!) and reasonable upgrade. I also hear they work pretty hard when on the road (i.e., 4-6 legs per day). Pay could certainly be better. Will be interesting to see if they eventually order a new Piaggio jet in a few years if one is produced. If you want variety and a fun airplane to fly - Avantair might work for you. At least, that's what I hear...

 

[Grizz]

I work so that I can afford to do the things I like to do on my time off. Anything that pays me more and has me working less, gets my vote every time. Ego may drive some of you guys but if I had to decide between being a left seater at Avantair or right seater at SWA for the next 18 years, it'd be an easy decision.

Hell, if I was 5 years younger or 500 numbers junior, I'd be looking to leave NetJets to head over there.

 

[johnsonrod]

I work so that I can afford to do the things I like to do on my time off. Anything that pays me more and has me working less, gets my vote every time. Ego may drive some of you guys but if I had to decide between being a left seater at Avantair or right seater at SWA for the next 18 years, it'd be an easy decision.

Hell, if I was 5 years younger or 500 numbers junior, I'd be looking to leave NetJets to head over there.

I don't disagree with your position. It's just too bad when people get jaded and lose their passion for flying (I am not there - YET). I guess you could go to SWA, earn some decent money, buy a Piper Cub and fly it on the side if you wanted to continue to have fun flying...

 

[sshrae]

There is one thing that is being left out, avantair doesn't make money. Their books are public. SWA on the other hand has obviously done very well, thus WAY more job security. Avantair's investors at some point are going to want to see a return on their investment. ie, no job security there. My guess is they get lucky and get bought out, or go belly up in the near future.


BTW aftcg, the fuel hedge does not run out. SWA has a lot of very intelligent people whose job is dedicated to nothing but buying futures. My guess is they will be very well hedged for the foreseeable future.

 

[rajflyboy]

What happened?

a year or two ago you Avantair puppies were on here boasting about how great this company was and how great of a company you work for and how great your ass backwards turboprop was???

WTF happened?

 

[BARNSTORM]

How can anyone compare Avantair to SWA? Its like comparing greatfruits to cumcuats

 

[BARNSTORM]

I like a good grapefruit!

 

[wacoflyr]

What happened?

a year or two ago you Avantair puppies were on here boasting about how great this company was and how great of a company you work for and how great your ass backwards turboprop was???

WTF happened?

Hmmm... I don't recall boasting. I think I've been very candid. As best I can recall, so has everybody else. This place ain't perfect. I'll be happy to concede that. What's happened is that the schedule is not what it used to be. The president of the company has told us that as of the end of June 7&7 will again be an option, although only one of several. We shall see. I like it here, but no one is claiming that it is paradise. I hope it improves. If we can make the shareholders happy, and make the employees happy, one and all, then we will be doing good. We are not quite there yet. I have faith that one day we will be.

 

[glasspilot]

What happened?

a year or two ago you Avantair puppies were on here boasting about how great this company was and how great of a company you work for and how great your ass backwards turboprop was???

WTF happened?

This puppy still thinks it great. It seems like it would be in poor taste to boast when the others are furloughing. So I guess that's what happened, everyone else furloughed. Why would you want to rub that in their face?

Try to not be a jerk, that's my motto.

 

[FastJP4]

I took a look at Avantair............once. Seeing their payscale was enough. Granted, it is probably better than being unemployed, but how does anyone with a family live off that scratch? Avantair will be hiring alot of folks in the next 1-2 years as the pilot market slowly rebounds.

BTW - it's hard to believe some are even remotely trying to compare Avantair to SW - but thanks for the laugh.

 

[rajflyboy]

Hmmm... I don't recall boasting. I think I've been very candid. As best I can recall, so has everybody else. This place ain't perfect. I'll be happy to concede that. What's happened is that the schedule is not what it used to be. The president of the company has told us that as of the end of June 7&7 will again be an option, although only one of several. We shall see. I like it here, but no one is claiming that it is paradise. I hope it improves. If we can make the shareholders happy, and make the employees happy, one and all, then we will be doing good. We are not quite there yet. I have faith that one day we will be.

Nice post Waco

Hopefully it will work out for you and all of your co workers! I wish you the best.

 

[AftCG182]

BTW - it's hard to believe some are even remotely trying to compare Avantair to SW - but thanks for the laugh.

Whatever it is that you fly MUST be a single-pilot aircraft. With that ego there can't possibly be room for anyone else.

 

[sshrae]

Whatever it is that you fly MUST be a single-pilot aircraft. With that ego there can't possibly be room for anyone else.

Because he says the comparison is laughable he has too big an ego to fly with anyone else? Interesting.

 

[AftCG182]

Because he says the comparison is laughable he has too big an ego to fly with anyone else? Interesting.

The comparison between Avantair and Southwest is not laughable. Southwest did not start as the powerhouse that it is now. Southwest had it's share of speed-bumps on it's way to the top. I have two good friends that fly for Southwest, and his condescending attitude is not typical of the pilots at Southwest. Universally, every Southwest pilot that I've ever spoken with wishes Avantair well in our struggle to grow.

I don't know who that guy is, or who he flies for. I'll stuck by my previous statement. His post is insulting to me as an Avantair pilot.

 

[sshrae]

The comparison between Avantair and Southwest is not laughable. Southwest did not start as the powerhouse that it is now. Southwest had it's share of speed-bumps on it's way to the top. I have two good friends that fly for Southwest, and his condescending attitude is not typical of the pilots at Southwest. Universally, every Southwest pilot that I've ever spoken with wishes Avantair well in our struggle to grow.

I don't know who that guy is, or who he flies for. I'll stuck by my previous statement. His post is insulting to me as an Avantair pilot.

More insulting than the comparison between the companies was the payscale. The payscale is extremely insulting. You work 7 days in a row and get paid regional pilot wages, that is insulting. As a former fractional pilot I know how demanding that job is and I feel the compensation is not close to standard.
I do wish Avantair luck, however, I feel that if you are going to survive you are going to get bought out. In reviewing the finances of AAIR it does not look promising.

 

[Tenspot]

The comparison between Avantair and Southwest is not laughable. Southwest did not start as the powerhouse that it is now. Southwest had it's share of speed-bumps on it's way to the top. I have two good friends that fly for Southwest, and his condescending attitude is not typical of the pilots at Southwest. Universally, every Southwest pilot that I've ever spoken with wishes Avantair well in our struggle to grow.

I don't know who that guy is, or who he flies for. I'll stuck by my previous statement. His post is insulting to me as an Avantair pilot.

Let me clue you in junior. You are a meat based airplane part to the folks that really make the decisions at Avantair. The sooner that you start to understand that you only have one obligation; that is to yourself and your family, the better off you'll be. You need to stop worrying about "Avantair's struggle to grow" and work on getting a job that actually pays you for your professional services.

You sir - are a perfect example of why the piloting profession has gone downhill like a rocket sled on rails. It actually make me ill to read posts like yours where pilots make excuses for the crap that is dished out at low-rent places like Avantair.

 

[glasspilot]

88,654. That's the number on my W-2. I'm okay with it. Who the hell are you or anyone else to tell me that's not enough? Maybe we should ask some of the NetJet guys...maybe some of the 495?

No dis-respect to NetJets, just saying some people have it MUCH worse. To make fun of my pay is like making fun of a womans wedding ring for being too small or a guys house for being in a crap neighborhood. Its bad form. I'm happy you fly a shiney jet for a kabillion dollars.

I fly a silly turbo prop at FL410 at 400 kts on 90 gallons an hour and make more than furloughed pilots AND Flight Options pilots. Go rank on them for awhile before you come digging on Avantair.

 

[Tenspot]

Glass,

The shame is that you don't see that if I was putting in the amount of hours you are, I'd be making double that. I still consider myself under-paid even at that rate.

 

[sshrae]

88,654. That's the number on my W-2. I'm okay with it. Who the hell are you or anyone else to tell me that's not enough? Maybe we should ask some of the NetJet guys...maybe some of the 495?

No dis-respect to NetJets, just saying some people have it MUCH worse. To make fun of my pay is like making fun of a womans wedding ring for being too small or a guys house for being in a crap neighborhood. Its bad form. I'm happy you fly a shiney jet for a kabillion dollars.

I fly a silly turbo prop at FL410 at 400 kts on 90 gallons an hour and make more than furloughed pilots AND Flight Options pilots. Go rank on them for awhile before you come digging on Avantair.

As a 495er I made 20 grand more this year flying a mustang 10 days per month than you did flying 7 and 7. I thought I was underpaid. That is pathetic. This is the problem with the industry, there is always someone who will do it for less. Cheap labor. Guess it will not matter though, take a look at the finances of AAIR on yahoo finance. You need more capital or your company will be done soon.

 

[AftCG182]

I'll use a different color to make my responses easier to read. NYJets green will do the trick...

The internet forum format might just be the greatest idea ever. Normally we'd be having this discussion over a beer someplace. In lieu of that, here's my final post of the evening.

I'm going to respond to you with a post that's free of insults, digs, and comes complete with responses that come straight from my heart.

Let me clue you in junior. Being 43, I'm not old, but not what you'd call a Spring Chicken, either. Not sure that calling me "junior" works here.

You are a meat based airplane part to the folks that really make the decisions at Avantair. This is where you're mistaken, on a philosophical level. But, your point highlights one of the things that set us apart from every other Frac operator out there. We're not (the pilot group), just "meat" that's necessary in order for the butttons to get pushed. We're people, and the Management around here knows that. Read on for an example.

The sooner that you start to understand that you only have one obligation; that is to yourself and your family, the better off you'll be. Touchy subject there, my friend. My daughter (which, actually, is the entire composition of my family) is my number one obligation. Our Pilot Services department bends over backwards to make sure that I'm home from WHEREVER in order to pick her up from school on Monday, in time to bring her home with me so that she can come over and live at my home during my off-week. Still sound like a company that only cares only about themselves?

You need to stop worrying about "Avantair's struggle to grow" and work on getting a job that actually pays you for your professional services. I did my time in the 121 world and decided that somewhere out there were greener pastures someplace. I'm not knocking the 121 folks, it just turned out to be what I wasn't looking for. There are so many aspects of Frac life that are awesome; seemingly tailored me, that I am here to stay. And yes, with Avantair.

You sir - are a perfect example of why the piloting profession has gone downhill like a rocket sled on rails. Thank you for calling me "Sir". However, I have nothing to do with why our career field has slid down the $hitter. In fact, I think the Frac industry is directly responsible for bringging us back to a level of respectability. Well, at least getting us headed in the right direction.

It actually make me ill to read posts like yours where pilots make excuses for the crap that is dished out at low-rent places like Avantair.

You're confusing Avantair for a "low-rent" operator. Again, we're still a relatively new company that's trying to establish itself in an incredibly competitive market. And, it's not exactly a stabile market. Even as we try to adapt to the carrent market, it changes into something different, even before our modifications can even be put into place.

I really need to go to bed now. Thanks for the discussion. I'll take a look at the thread in the morning and see what's popped up.

 

[rajflyboy]

Let me clue you in junior. You are a meat based airplane part to the folks that really make the decisions at Avantair. The sooner that you start to understand that you only have one obligation; that is to yourself and your family, the better off you'll be. You need to stop worrying about "Avantair's struggle to grow" and work on getting a job that actually pays you for your professional services.

You sir - are a perfect example of why the piloting profession has gone downhill like a rocket sled on rails. It actually make me ill to read posts like yours where pilots make excuses for the crap that is dished out at low-rent places like Avantair.

Dude

That is so F***king true

 

[rettofly]

88,654. That's the number on my W-2. I'm okay with it. Who the hell are you or anyone else to tell me that's not enough? Maybe we should ask some of the NetJet guys...maybe some of the 495?

No dis-respect to NetJets, just saying some people have it MUCH worse. To make fun of my pay is like making fun of a womans wedding ring for being too small or a guys house for being in a crap neighborhood. Its bad form. I'm happy you fly a shiney jet for a kabillion dollars.

I fly a silly turbo prop at FL410 at 400 kts on 90 gallons an hour and make more than furloughed pilots AND Flight Options pilots. Go rank on them for awhile before you come digging on Avantair.

...and I'll bet that's that's net of the 401(k) contribution.

If I hadn't retired, I'd be pushing 100K.

 

[wacoflyr]

Wow. Yup, this is Flightinfo.

Okay, let's sum this up.
Those of us from Avantair who post here, like our jobs.(mostly)
Some who are not from Avantair wish we were paid more. Great! So do I!
And as our company grows, we will work on that.

I'm glad we could all reach a consensus based agreement on the topic at hand.