Avantair Monkey Radio

[Diesel]

I think its funny how the DO is hiding behind the "lawyer told me to." if he had a set he would have thrown the lawyer out. Thats if the lawyer even made the rule which i highly doubt he did.

All the other companies in the world that have crashes don't all of a sudden say no FO's can't fly.

 

[se1776]

I think its funny how the DO is hiding behind the "lawyer told me to." if he had a set he would have thrown the lawyer out. Thats if the lawyer even made the rule which i highly doubt he did.

All the other companies in the world that have crashes don't all of a sudden say no FO's can't fly.

that's the easy way out to blame the co'pilot

 

[Mr. Pebbles]

I think its funny how the DO is hiding behind the "lawyer told me to." if he had a set he would have thrown the lawyer out. Thats if the lawyer even made the rule which i highly doubt he did.

All the other companies in the world that have crashes don't all of a sudden say no FO's can't fly.

D.O.? That place doesn't have a DO- only someone posing as a DO. He's done nothing but kiss ass since way back when he was an FO. Any DO with ANY balls whatsoever, or who calls himself a pilot, would have thrown down over this, and walked out if he had to.

 

[P180puke]

Guys, it's more simple than "the lawyer said" and "the D.O. has no nuts" (which he doesn't).

That airplane was used extensively as a trainer as well as a parts whore. Anybody at avantair with some history can attest as they witnessed it sitting in the hanger for months on end in various displays of disarray and sweated through their initial and recurrents in it.

The crew swears (CVR should back it up) that the landing was normal-not hard. Assume for now it was.

Bag the crew (FO because he was flying) and redirect the focus from possible mx issues to that of the all-encompassing "pilot error" and the whole thing goes away. Strike preemptively by instituting ridiculous rules for FOs flying the line and jump start the focus.

Who's to say this wasn't the subject of a compilation of hard landings (training, etc.) that decided to finally evolve while this crew was flying?

Probably can't prove it, but it's a much better option for management to hang the crew out to dry than endure the scrutiny of a mx deficiency and subsequent investigation.

Or maybe they just landed hard. REAL hard.

 

[CherryBomb]

Guys, it's more simple than "the lawyer said" and "the D.O. has no nuts" (which he doesn't).

That airplane was used extensively as a trainer as well as a parts whore. Anybody at avantair with some history can attest as they witnessed it sitting in the hanger for months on end in various displays of disarray and sweated through their initial and recurrents in it.

The crew swears (CVR should back it up) that the landing was normal-not hard. Assume for now it was.

Bag the crew (FO because he was flying) and redirect the focus from possible mx issues to that of the all-encompassing "pilot error" and the whole thing goes away. Strike preemptively by instituting ridiculous rules for FOs flying the line and jump start the focus.

Who's to say this wasn't the subject of a compilation of hard landings (training, etc.) that decided to finally evolve while this crew was flying?

Probably can't prove it, but it's a much better option for management to hang the crew out to dry than endure the scrutiny of a mx deficiency and subsequent investigation.

Or maybe they just landed hard. REAL hard.

That was a very insightful post... Well said
CB

 

[Noodles]

When I worked for Avantair, it was policy that they prefered the FO's not fly legs with passengers, but it was Captains discretion. Knowing the management, I'm sure they've already determined the crew was at fault, no matter what actually happened. Everything is the crew's fault, and you are assumed guilty until you can prove yourself innocent.

I've seen that aircraft with so many parts missing for so long, it's a wonder they got it back together correctly. Everyone was surprised, at the time, that they would move the flight training airplane over to hauling passengers full time. Wonder if they'll blame this on the mechanics now also.....

 

[Jack Mehoff]

so by this mindset if in the future a captain gets one stuck in the mud or some other incident, will the pax have to fly the plane??

 

[Mr. Pebbles]

When I worked for Avantair, it was policy that they prefered the FO's not fly legs with passengers, but it was Captains discretion. Knowing the management, I'm sure they've already determined the crew was at fault, no matter what actually happened. Everything is the crew's fault, and you are assumed guilty until you can prove yourself innocent.

I've seen that aircraft with so many parts missing for so long, it's a wonder they got it back together correctly. Everyone was surprised, at the time, that they would move the flight training airplane over to hauling passengers full time. Wonder if they'll blame this on the mechanics now also.....

What a wise man you are, Noodles.

 

[flyboy'sfriend]

Someone wondered how could the managment be so reactionary? All I've ever heard about the managment there is that being reactionary is the one thing that is consistant about them all, and its been like that for years.

I've heard some of the stories about the lower skilled FO's and it wouldn't suprise me that something like this could happen, they should have had more rigorous training, supervision and elimination when they were first hired. Even if it wasn't pilot error this time or the FO's fault, Avantair has had a habit of throwing some real dense FO's into the right seat. And now with this new rule, if I were the captain and let an FO fly a leg managment has not approved, and if something happened, I would be in a extremely vulnerable position.

Why avantair can't manage, improve upon, and regulate the quality of their FO's is beyond me, their pilots are the backbone of their company, yet they do nothing to improve their proficiency, not that this incursion is necessarily an FO error.

They have life long Mx problems that are never resolved, the stories I've heard about how some of the aircraft have been thrown together, it's a wonder the tail section hasn't fallen off a particular aircraft yet.

Stupid is as stupid does, and management is very consistant in their stupidity.

 

[Flybet3]

Someone wondered how could the managment be so reactionary? All I've ever heard about the managment there is that being reactionary is the one thing that is consistant about them all, and its been like that for years.

I've heard some of the stories about the lower skilled FO's and it wouldn't suprise me that something like this could happen, they should have had more rigorous training, supervision and elimination when they were first hired. Even if it wasn't pilot error this time or the FO's fault, Avantair has had a habit of throwing some real dense FO's into the right seat. And now with this new rule, if I were the captain and let an FO fly a leg managment has not approved, and if something happened, I would be in a extremely vulnerable position.

Why avantair can't manage, improve upon, and regulate the quality of their FO's is beyond me, their pilots are the backbone of their company, yet they do nothing to improve their proficiency, not that this incursion is necessarily an FO error.

They have life long Mx problems that are never resolved, the stories I've heard about how some of the aircraft have been thrown together, it's a wonder the tail section hasn't fallen off a particular aircraft yet.

Stupid is as stupid does, and management is very consistant in their stupidity.

ouch!!!!!!

 

[myrealnameis]

Someone wondered how could the managment be so reactionary? All I've ever heard about the managment there is that being reactionary is the one thing that is consistant about them all, and its been like that for years.

I've heard some of the stories about the lower skilled FO's and it wouldn't suprise me that something like this could happen, they should have had more rigorous training, supervision and elimination when they were first hired. Even if it wasn't pilot error this time or the FO's fault, Avantair has had a habit of throwing some real dense FO's into the right seat. And now with this new rule, if I were the captain and let an FO fly a leg managment has not approved, and if something happened, I would be in a extremely vulnerable position.

Why avantair can't manage, improve upon, and regulate the quality of their FO's is beyond me, their pilots are the backbone of their company, yet they do nothing to improve their proficiency, not that this incursion is necessarily an FO error.

They have life long Mx problems that are never resolved, the stories I've heard about how some of the aircraft have been thrown together, it's a wonder the tail section hasn't fallen off a particular aircraft yet.

Stupid is as stupid does, and management is very consistant in their stupidity.

Manage the quality of the FO's??! What the hell you talking about, have you actually seen the hiring minimums at this company? Have you ever flown with some of the FO's of this company? Let me assure you and the world that there is no problem with the quality of FO's or Captains for that matter. Maybe you are trying to say that no other company other than Avantair has ever hired, as you call it a "real dense" FO. I can assure you that this crew were not in that minority. Besides you still have to cut the mustard at Flight Safety, just ask that veteran group of FOs that couldnt make it through training and are out on their asses. I'm not defending management for this absolutely stuipid response to an accident that seems to blame the entire pilot group. I do take measure with your rather broad painting of the quality of pilots that fly for this organization. Its just plain wrong. The only thing for certain is crews make mistakes and equipment fails and its gonna happen to every company, eventually.

 

[Dilligaff]

myrealnameis,

Well said!

 

[lemtjones]

Aborted Takeoff KGCN?

Anyone from Avant heard about a an aircraft aborting takeoff at KGCN? There's a Piaggio in the weeds off the end of the runway, rumor mill says it was Avant, but the tail no.'s are covered up. Anyone know the accel/stop distance for the Piaggio?

 

[glasspilot]

Anyone know the accel/stop distance for the Piaggio?

Depends how fast you get before you try to stop. Also contributing is elevation, temperature, humidity, pilot reaction time, brake wear, tire wear, prop wear, engine wear...etc. etc. etc.


SARCASIM OFF

 

[angryoneincher]

Wow, I see AvantScare is still at it. By IT I mean general stupidity. What all you people have to understand is that this company will never be a respectable company as long it's run by the people it is now. Period. End of story. When liars run a company, ******************** automatically runs downhill.