Avantair Monkey Radio

[myrealnameis]

Someone wondered how could the managment be so reactionary? All I've ever heard about the managment there is that being reactionary is the one thing that is consistant about them all, and its been like that for years.

I've heard some of the stories about the lower skilled FO's and it wouldn't suprise me that something like this could happen, they should have had more rigorous training, supervision and elimination when they were first hired. Even if it wasn't pilot error this time or the FO's fault, Avantair has had a habit of throwing some real dense FO's into the right seat. And now with this new rule, if I were the captain and let an FO fly a leg managment has not approved, and if something happened, I would be in a extremely vulnerable position.

Why avantair can't manage, improve upon, and regulate the quality of their FO's is beyond me, their pilots are the backbone of their company, yet they do nothing to improve their proficiency, not that this incursion is necessarily an FO error.

They have life long Mx problems that are never resolved, the stories I've heard about how some of the aircraft have been thrown together, it's a wonder the tail section hasn't fallen off a particular aircraft yet.

Stupid is as stupid does, and management is very consistant in their stupidity.

Manage the quality of the FO's??! What the hell you talking about, have you actually seen the hiring minimums at this company? Have you ever flown with some of the FO's of this company? Let me assure you and the world that there is no problem with the quality of FO's or Captains for that matter. Maybe you are trying to say that no other company other than Avantair has ever hired, as you call it a "real dense" FO. I can assure you that this crew were not in that minority. Besides you still have to cut the mustard at Flight Safety, just ask that veteran group of FOs that couldnt make it through training and are out on their asses. I'm not defending management for this absolutely stuipid response to an accident that seems to blame the entire pilot group. I do take measure with your rather broad painting of the quality of pilots that fly for this organization. Its just plain wrong. The only thing for certain is crews make mistakes and equipment fails and its gonna happen to every company, eventually.

 

[Dilligaff]

myrealnameis,

Well said!

 

[lemtjones]

Aborted Takeoff KGCN?

Anyone from Avant heard about a an aircraft aborting takeoff at KGCN? There's a Piaggio in the weeds off the end of the runway, rumor mill says it was Avant, but the tail no.'s are covered up. Anyone know the accel/stop distance for the Piaggio?

 

[glasspilot]

Anyone know the accel/stop distance for the Piaggio?

Depends how fast you get before you try to stop. Also contributing is elevation, temperature, humidity, pilot reaction time, brake wear, tire wear, prop wear, engine wear...etc. etc. etc.


SARCASIM OFF

 

[angryoneincher]

Wow, I see AvantScare is still at it. By IT I mean general stupidity. What all you people have to understand is that this company will never be a respectable company as long it's run by the people it is now. Period. End of story. When liars run a company, ******************** automatically runs downhill.

 

[HSDriver]

Oh no... Does this mean the SIC was flying again?

HS

 

[redd]

Hey Myrealname and Dilligaf alias managment or close to it, you are acting really defensive, there have been some FO's that were kept on the line way too long, think about the ones that aren't working there anymore....if the shoe fits.....

 

[se1776]

if the Captain was Flying you guys better start looking for another job because no one will be able to fly that Airplane too bad you guys don't have flight attendants

 

[Dilligaff]

Redd,

I am many things, but management I am not - not even close. If you actually read all my posts in this thread you'd clearly see that I think the knee-jerk reactions by our leaders are stupid. However, I agree with Myrealname when he defended the FO's when they were unjustifiably generalized by someone who 'heard' something.

 

[myrealnameis]

Hey Myrealname and Dilligaf alias managment or close to it, you are acting really defensive, there have been some FO's that were kept on the line way too long, think about the ones that aren't working there anymore....if the shoe fits.....

Do you actually read before you post, or are you just ignorant? I bet both. If you would read my previous post, you would see that your observation of my status would be wrong. I doubt managment gives 2 ********************s about what is said on the forum. I am simply speaking up for the good pilots that work at my organization. Defensive you say, I bet that if you saw someone getting wacked over the head that didn't deserve it, you would be the one to stand around with a thumb up your ass and watch.

 

[brewerdog]

i was told long ago that SS said the capt was to fly all the pax legs, maybe not everybody got that word but it was out there, if every other leg is a repo...half the flying is empty, and as I heard it the gear failed

 

[NotFurloughed]

Funny...

Besides you still have to cut the mustard at Flight Safety....

If I may....

I'm not so sure that "cut the mustard" accurately describes what one must do do complete FSI training.

In my limited experience in a few A/C types, I can assure you that those marginal attendees were spoon-fed and hand-held enough to complete their GS, 61.157, 61.58 and 135 checks.

I don't necessarily agree with it but FSI coddles "customers" more than they should in some instances.

So I wouldn't use the FSI seal of approval for my method of attrition for hiring.

More often than not, I think you'll find that company training and check airman will have to give the final axe to those who lack the skills necessary to be an effective crew member.

Just speaking from experience...

Oh yeah, and there's no 61.157 type ride for the Piaggio, so all that needs to be completed is the 91K/135 PIC or SIC checks....

Granted it's a new A/C for FSI, but it is what it is....

 

[se1776]

I am sure you guy are going to be hiring a lot of co-pilots soon

 

[BoeingBaller]

I am sure you guy are going to be hiring a lot of co-pilots soon

If they can find any...

 

[starvingcfi]

Depends how fast you get before you try to stop. Also contributing is elevation, temperature, humidity, pilot reaction time, brake wear, tire wear, prop wear, engine wear...etc. etc. etc.


SARCASIM OFF

you misspelled 'sarcasm'

 

[se1776]

just don't work there SAY NO TO AVANTAIR

 

[oneeye_169]

maybe i'm slow..i don't know. but what does having "more piaggio experience" have to do with landing at intl airports. i seriously think that somebody thought that sounded good. if the FO's are experienced, which mgmt has said themselves, but lack piaggio experience compared to the captains....then wouldn't you think that the proper place for the FO's to get comfortable with the airplane would be airports which they have frequented before. airports which have an average of 10000' in length and 175' in width. an airport where the captains can easily back up the FO and handle the radio congestion at the same time. as opposed to say....bermuda dunes. a place which shares about the same width as my sidewalk. and of course, short. seriously I DO NOT GET IT. i feel sorry for the FO's who sit there having to bite their tongues and sit on their hands. And just a pet peeve of mine, which i see some, but not alot of FO's do, and saw alot of CAs when i was an FO is..................WHEN YOU ARE AT A BIG AIRPORT LIKE ORD EWR IAD PHX, ETC,....YOU DON'T HAVE TO CALL TOWER AND TELL THEM YOU ARE READY FOR TAKEOFF.....THEY KNOW!!!!! which is why ATC responds with, "UH UH thanks." i would think with all that piaggio experience, we would all know that by now. sorry, i don't mean to be mean. i just had to get it out.

 

[HSDriver]

maybe i'm slow..i don't know. but what does having "more piaggio experience" have to do with landing at intl airports. i seriously think that somebody thought that sounded good. if the FO's are experienced, which mgmt has said themselves, but lack piaggio experience compared to the captains....then wouldn't you think that the proper place for the FO's to get comfortable with the airplane would be airports which they have frequented before. airports which have an average of 10000' in length and 175' in width. an airport where the captains can easily back up the FO and handle the radio congestion at the same time. as opposed to say....bermuda dunes. a place which shares about the same width as my sidewalk. and of course, short. seriously I DO NOT GET IT. i feel sorry for the FO's who sit there having to bite their tongues and sit on their hands. And just a pet peeve of mine, which i see some, but not alot of FO's do, and saw alot of CAs when i was an FO is..................WHEN YOU ARE AT A BIG AIRPORT LIKE ORD EWR IAD PHX, ETC,....YOU DON'T HAVE TO CALL TOWER AND TELL THEM YOU ARE READY FOR TAKEOFF.....THEY KNOW!!!!! which is why ATC responds with, "UH UH thanks." i would think with all that piaggio experience, we would all know that by now. sorry, i don't mean to be mean. i just had to get it out.

On that note... Also!!!! You don't have to tell the controller your heading or routing every time you change frequencies, they already know!!!! Stop doing that!!! You don't even have to tell them the altitude you are climbing, or descending thru when you change frequencies UNLESS the frequency change is to a NEW FACILITY (just say XXX climbing to FLxxx). For example, changing from Miami Center to Jax Center, or from a Departure to Center, you have to tell them passing altitudes so they can verify the information they have. If you are changing from ATL to ATL, for example, you don't have to tell them, they already have verified the Mode C. So stop checking in with a laundry list every time...

HS

 

[RoughAir]

HSDriver

You are only partially correct about freq changes.

Read AIM 5-3-1.

Not lets get back on topic instead of radio phraseology.

 

[Dilligaff]

maybe i'm slow..i don't know. but what does having "more piaggio experience" have to do with landing at intl airports. i seriously think that somebody thought that sounded good. if the FO's are experienced, which mgmt has said themselves, but lack piaggio experience compared to the captains....then wouldn't you think that the proper place for the FO's to get comfortable with the airplane would be airports which they have frequented before. airports which have an average of 10000' in length and 175' in width. an airport where the captains can easily back up the FO and handle the radio congestion at the same time. as opposed to say....bermuda dunes. a place which shares about the same width as my sidewalk. and of course, short. seriously I DO NOT GET IT.

Oneeye,

I agree with everything you said here but you must realize that the new policy has absolutely nothing to do with enhancing safety. This is a knee-jerk reaction by our CEO (who is also a lawyer) so he can say "look what we did!" to our owners and invstors. I have yet to meet a pilot at our company (including mgmt and instructor pilots) who think this is a smart idea but I have talked to several pilots (both ca's and fo's) who are looking for other jobs because of it.

Dilligaff