Avantair Monkey Radio

[johnsonrod]

I guess I am trying to understand what the big deal is here. Not trying to flame.

If the Avantair FOs fly all of the empty legs or repositioning flights, wouldn't that still add up to maybe a leg or two per day? Sure, that's not ideal because you would want the flexibility to fly the aircraft when you want but still not too bad considering you are training on the aircraft - somebody has to man the radios... If upgrade time is running at 1-2 years, you wouldn't have to wait too long to fly the majority of the flights - right? I guess as long as I would be flying most of the empty legs or repositioning flights I personally would be OK with it so long as the upgrade time was not too long (I could compensate with more than enough legs when I upgrade to PIC).

I guess I am surprised that many FOs would be so upset as to consider quitting in the near term given the relatively quick upgrade time... What is the ugrade time running nowadays?

 

[BoeingBaller]

I guess I am trying to understand what the big deal is here. Not trying to flame.

If the Avantair FOs fly all of the empty legs or repositioning flights, wouldn't that still add up to maybe a leg or two per day? Sure, that's not ideal because you would want the flexibility to fly the aircraft when you want but still not too bad considering you are training on the aircraft - somebody has to man the radios... If upgrade time is running at 1-2 years, you wouldn't have to wait too long to fly the majority of the flights - right? I guess as long as I would be flying most of the empty legs or repositioning flights I personally would be OK with it so long as the upgrade time was not too long (I could compensate with more than enough legs when I upgrade to PIC).

I guess I am surprised that many FOs would be so upset as to consider quitting in the near term given the relatively quick upgrade time... What is the ugrade time running nowadays?

No pax legs plus no legs in a metro area empty or not.So how do you tell a guy that flew a 767, 777, 747 at some major airline(like many FOs there have) that he is not allowed to fly this empty leg into ATL because it is a metro airport.In a airplane that does not require a type no less!!!

 

[CherryBomb]

The minimums at Avantair are some of the highest in the industry.

A friggin 300 hour regional FO can fly an RJ with 50 plus people on board, but we cant fly and d@mn tuboprop with 6 people?!?!?!?

This is an insult at the utmost....

 

[Flybet3]

The minimums at Avantair are some of the highest in the industry.

A friggin 300 hour regional FO can fly an RJ with 50 plus people on board, but we cant fly and d@mn tuboprop with 6 people?!?!?!?

This is an insult at the utmost....

Yes it is, especially when the recent new hires have not had less than 2500TT!! shoot, I remember that in my class i was the lowest time guy (2800TT with a bunch of turbine!), 1 3800 hour guy, 2 ex ACA guys with around 6000 hours, 1 ex marine with 5500 hours, 1 Beech 1900 driver with around 7000 hours, and a retired MD11 guy with like 18000 hours! and you're telling me that these guys can't fly the pax legs or metro areas b/c they might not know how to handle a slow peace of SH*T turboprop. PLEASE!!! yeah it's a fast prop in cruise! and true airspeed, but down low or in a climb that thing makes me want to cut my wrists!! man I love the Lear!

 

[johnsonrod]

If enough FOs leave I am betting that the lawyers get a "change of heart" directed by senior management. Yeah, I agree that the new rule would be ridiculous...

 

[se1776]

I guess I am trying to understand what the big deal is here. Not trying to flame.

If the Avantair FOs fly all of the empty legs or repositioning flights, wouldn't that still add up to maybe a leg or two per day? Sure, that's not ideal because you would want the flexibility to fly the aircraft when you want but still not too bad considering you are training on the aircraft - somebody has to man the radios... If upgrade time is running at 1-2 years, you wouldn't have to wait too long to fly the majority of the flights - right? I guess as long as I would be flying most of the empty legs or repositioning flights I personally would be OK with it so long as the upgrade time was not too long (I could compensate with more than enough legs when I upgrade to PIC).

I guess I am surprised that many FOs would be so upset as to consider quitting in the near term given the relatively quick upgrade time... What is the ugrade time running nowadays?

for example my friend was the monkey radio for 9.0 hrs yesterday and and out of those hrs he was only allowed to fly .5 tell me is thats a lot of BULL

 

[johnsonrod]

for example my friend was the monkey radio for 9.0 hrs yesterday and and out of those hrs he was only allowed to fly .5 tell me is thats a lot of BULL

Yeah, that sucks. Well, let's hope that management listens to "reason" for once. If enough people leave then management will have to listen I would guess...

I really don't understand why FOs wouldn't be able to fly an empty aircraft into a "metro" area like ATL or LAX. That's ridiculous if that's true... Can someone explain the lawyers' rationale for that one? What have the lawyers or management team members said about that?

 

[Mr. Pebbles]

......

If I was in that small cockpit for nine hours a day, and got to fly for .5, I'd need one of these.:uzi:

 

[x402]

for example my friend was the monkey radio for 9.0 hrs yesterday and and out of those hrs he was only allowed to fly .5 tell me is thats a lot of BULL

Can we find a quicker way to tire a crew?
It's a stupid idea with little or no basis in Human Factors. Can the management at Advil Air really be that reactionary? I thought only NJA wrote SOP's while the ink was drying on the NTSB report.
2 man cockpit, 2 man responsibilities. Any PIC pointing at his FO, needs to return a stripe.

 

[EatSleepFly]

Guess I can scratch communist Avantair off my list of places I might like to work.
What do they consider a "metro" area anyways? Who defines it and how?

 

[se1776]

there some F/O more experienced then captains, in avantair.
and you telling me they cant fly. an a airplane only weight 11,500 pounds.
how stupid is that company.....dont go there pilots there more bether places outthere then that.

 

[G100driver]

So lemme get this straight, an F/O was at the controls when an airplane geared up and now F/O's cannot fly? Perhaps the policy should say that captains are not allowed to moniter the PF as they might forget to confirm that the gear is down.

 

[Dilligaff]

G100, you got it wrong. The gear was down and locked. Allegedly it collapsed as a result of pilot technique - investigation is still under way. Also, FO's are allowed to fly, just under certain circumstances.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not defending the lawyers' decision to restrict FO's flying. Actually, I think it's a worthless knee-jerk reaction.

 

[G100driver]

Thanks for setting the record straight. An early post lead me to believe the airplane was geared up.

Good luck there.

 

[CherryBomb]

I agree with Dilligaf, I think it is a very poor reaction on the lawyers part. However, I can see the reasoning in their panic type move.

Avantair is a one crash company. One airplane goes down and the company is done, period. The Avanti is such an odd looking, high profile airplane, it would be very easy to give it a bad reputation. I just doesnt blend in among the citations, lears, etc...

I have faith that management will work this stuff out. The incident couldnt have come at a worse time being that the company just went public.

Overall it was a slap in the face to me and my fellow pilots, but I sort of understand the "panic" on the part of the lawyers. Like I said, I have faith that management will work things out. However thats not to say I wont keep my resume updated...