Avantair- from another source

[FRACTRASH]

We at Citationir are starting to see some of the same issues. I have a feeling it won't be long before union cards are sent to our pilot group. I used to belong to ALPA and couldn't stand it. I really didn't wont to work for a union shop again, well my opinion has changed and I'm tired of our pay and benefits being chipped away via an E-mail, with so much as a reason why.

 

[glasspilot]

Those are the two choices uh? Scardy cat cool-aide drinker or union supporter.


Nice view.

 

[fracjack]

where is the bar now set?

Frac companies have now witnessed how low the bar can go with a FLOPS cba. Too bad IBT is the only choice. But then again one has to wonder why now do working conditions deteriorate at other fracs? Do any of you think conditions would worsen if flops had the industry leading contract? Timing was poor with the economy but the majority got tired of the fight and settled for less instead of getting a substantial agreement. Flops management is in a good position to compete but unfortunately Peter is being robbed to finance Paul (Nextant,Sojourn and whatever else Ricci has). Their reputation is so far tarnished that it will take years for any growth if ever. Solution? There is none, the bar was set,management knows pilots won't strike since the precedent was set. Hopefully the remaining non contract fracs won't self destruct. No one wins. NetJets got lucky and are able to weather the economic storm purely on size and now their management has figured out they have too many different fleets,let's not forget their deep pockets. I think we will see an increase in corporate activity above what would normally happen with an improving economy. Airlines continue to be a p.i.t.a. and only getting worse. One bad high profile frac crash will have clients wonder why they don't just charter or buy outright. The frac party has been over for 4 years now.

 

[hangarrat]

Frac companies have now witnessed how low the bar can go with a FLOPS cba. Too bad IBT is the only choice. But then again one has to wonder why now do working conditions deteriorate at other fracs? Do any of you think conditions would worsen if flops had the industry leading contract? Timing was poor with the economy but the majority got tired of the fight and settled for less instead of getting a substantial agreement. Flops management is in a good position to compete but unfortunately Peter is being robbed to finance Paul (Nextant,Sojourn and whatever else Ricci has). Their reputation is so far tarnished that it will take years for any growth if ever. Solution? There is none, the bar was set,management knows pilots won't strike since the precedent was set. Hopefully the remaining non contract fracs won't self destruct. No one wins. NetJets got lucky and are able to weather the economic storm purely on size and now their management has figured out they have too many different fleets,let's not forget their deep pockets. I think we will see an increase in corporate activity above what would normally happen with an improving economy. Airlines continue to be a p.i.t.a. and only getting worse. One bad high profile frac crash will have clients wonder why they don't just charter or buy outright. The frac party has been over for 4 years now.

Wow, what an outlook... we should all quit the industry now, while we stil have a chance. Maybe there is still time to get into real estate or perhaps the stock market. Thanks for the heads up fracdude.

 

[Praetorian]

Don't let him bother you. He's been posting the same kind of sky is falling, chicken littleish kind of thing on our own union board. He's a furloughed pilot with some kind of axe to grind. Seems to think that since he got furloughed the union should've taken the place down so we could all join him on the unemployment line. Very sad really. The real irony is his own efforts to undermine the union during end game barganing probably cost all the flops pilots at the table. Now he says it's the unions fault.

 

[realityman]

One bad high profile frac crash will have clients wonder why they don't just charter or buy outright.

Eh. Obviously, a bad crash would be extremely bad news for the company that had it. But clients flocking away from fractionals completely? Not likely. Over the years, how many crashes have been with charter companies? What about corporate flight departments? While the individual companies that were involved with those crashes may have suffered, we haven't seen the demise of the charter industry, or corporate flight departments, because of them.

BTW, your statement about the airlines is dead on. Go TSA!!! Sure,it makes my life getting to and from work (and for personal travel), a lot less bearable, but man is it great advertising for all of business aviation! The way the airlines are going, I don't think the fractional business is going anywhere (maybe some of the individual companies won't survive, but the industry will).

 

[gunfyter]

I don't have my copy with me ... but AIN article this month shows accident rates of fractional, corporate, charter and airlines. I believe Airline and Fracs were about the same.

 

[fracjack]

Don't let him bother you. He's been posting the same kind of sky is falling, chicken littleish kind of thing on our own union board. He's a furloughed pilot with some kind of axe to grind. Seems to think that since he got furloughed the union should've taken the place down so we could all join him on the unemployment line. Very sad really. The real irony is his own efforts to undermine the union during end game barganing probably cost all the flops pilots at the table. Now he says it's the unions fault.

Wrong guy braniac, i don't work there

 

[Praetorian]

Wrong guy braniac, i don't work there

Yea, not anymore. But you are the same guy.

 

[fracjack]

Yea, not anymore. But you are the same guy.

Believe what you want. You can't refute facts and just can't stop patting yourself on the back for a union job well done. Alot more than you know have the same opinion about our special ops former airforce friend. Which leads me to believe you are on the union executive braniac committee. Perhaps you've spent too much time working for Uncle Sam and not enough in the real world of aviation. Our friend has done both and I believe he's well qualified to express his valuable opinion. The bar is low and the other fracs want to capitalize on it. That IS a fact. Flops is still the lowest paid and that's going to last a long time,provided the company does.