Avantair- from another source

[realityman]

One bad high profile frac crash will have clients wonder why they don't just charter or buy outright.

Eh. Obviously, a bad crash would be extremely bad news for the company that had it. But clients flocking away from fractionals completely? Not likely. Over the years, how many crashes have been with charter companies? What about corporate flight departments? While the individual companies that were involved with those crashes may have suffered, we haven't seen the demise of the charter industry, or corporate flight departments, because of them.

BTW, your statement about the airlines is dead on. Go TSA!!! Sure,it makes my life getting to and from work (and for personal travel), a lot less bearable, but man is it great advertising for all of business aviation! The way the airlines are going, I don't think the fractional business is going anywhere (maybe some of the individual companies won't survive, but the industry will).

 

[gunfyter]

I don't have my copy with me ... but AIN article this month shows accident rates of fractional, corporate, charter and airlines. I believe Airline and Fracs were about the same.

 

[fracjack]

Don't let him bother you. He's been posting the same kind of sky is falling, chicken littleish kind of thing on our own union board. He's a furloughed pilot with some kind of axe to grind. Seems to think that since he got furloughed the union should've taken the place down so we could all join him on the unemployment line. Very sad really. The real irony is his own efforts to undermine the union during end game barganing probably cost all the flops pilots at the table. Now he says it's the unions fault.

Wrong guy braniac, i don't work there

 

[Praetorian]

Wrong guy braniac, i don't work there

Yea, not anymore. But you are the same guy.

 

[fracjack]

Yea, not anymore. But you are the same guy.

Believe what you want. You can't refute facts and just can't stop patting yourself on the back for a union job well done. Alot more than you know have the same opinion about our special ops former airforce friend. Which leads me to believe you are on the union executive braniac committee. Perhaps you've spent too much time working for Uncle Sam and not enough in the real world of aviation. Our friend has done both and I believe he's well qualified to express his valuable opinion. The bar is low and the other fracs want to capitalize on it. That IS a fact. Flops is still the lowest paid and that's going to last a long time,provided the company does.

 

[DUATS]

I believe Airline and Fracs were about the same.

Have any of the major fractionals had a fatal crash?

(A real question - I don't know the answer.)

 

[dime line]

Have any of the major fractionals had a fatal crash?

(A real question - I don't know the answer.)

No........

 

[gunfyter]

I am just repeating what I saw in the article.

 

[Ludicrous Speed]

book

This is repeating what many others have posted:

Best thing for any pilot during a rodeo is to read "Confessions of a Union Buster" by Levitt. Available (rarely) in used bookstores & online.

 

[rajflyboy]

This is repeating what many others have posted:

Best thing for any pilot during a rodeo is to read "Confessions of a Union Buster" by Levitt. Available (rarely) in used bookstores & online.

I thought the best book for any pilot to read is this:

http://www.bookwormomaha.com/store/pc-68-2-pleased-but-not-satisfied.aspx

 

[gunfyter]

"...There are those who balk at the fight. They place their confidence in management instead of their fellow workers.

Management feeds on this weakness by handing out PROMISES like candy and quickly reneging if the workers lose the election.

But Management MUST be held Accountable.

As Teamsters we fight for what's right for working families."

-- Jimmy Hoffa --

This was my favorite message from the General President when we were Teamsters....

 

[avantairowner]

I believe the Avantair pilots are smarter than this. I have been very happy with the service and love the airplane. I lived thru the NetJets Union drive and it was terrible. They lost a lot of business as a result. I am not sure Avantair could live thru something like that. I really hope as an owner this doesn't happen at Avantair. Anyone who quotes Jimmy Hoffa really needs to look at the Teamsters history. By the way management is not the enemy that is a sad sentiment to have. Believe it or not, good, caring management does exist. Avantair has such management. This is a new, growing company and something like this, at this time, can destroy it. I hope the pilots at Avantair think carefully about this.

 

[dime line]

I believe the Avantair pilots are smarter than this. I have been very happy with the service and love the airplane. I lived thru the NetJets Union drive and it was terrible. They lost a lot of business as a result. I am not sure Avantair could live thru something like that. I really hope as an owner this doesn't happen at Avantair. Anyone who quotes Jimmy Hoffa really needs to look at the Teamsters history.

By the way management is not the enemy that is a sad sentiment to have.

Believe it or not, good, caring management does exist. Avantair has such management. This is a new, growing company and something like this, at this time, can destroy it. I hope the pilots at Avantair think carefully about this.

You must be friends with the CFO, (He is on here), the only reason a union is voted on at a company is bad management. Your funny.

 

[brokeflyer]

I believe the Avantair pilots are smarter than this. I have been very happy with the service and love the airplane. I lived thru the NetJets Union drive and it was terrible. They lost a lot of business as a result. I am not sure Avantair could live thru something like that. I really hope as an owner this doesn't happen at Avantair. Anyone who quotes Jimmy Hoffa really needs to look at the Teamsters history. By the way management is not the enemy that is a sad sentiment to have. Believe it or not, good, caring management does exist. Avantair has such management. This is a new, growing company and something like this, at this time, can destroy it. I hope the pilots at Avantair think carefully about this.

As an owner are you that cheap that you want your family flying on a broken airplane with a tired pilot just you can shave a $1000 off the price? You shop for the cheapest Doctor as well?

A company gets the union they deserve. This place makes the pilots work more days and adds in a pay cut on top of that.....then management gives themselves a raise.

Its sad that pilots need a union at all, but until management gets it together that is the only option available.

Safety is expensive

 

[avantairowner]

I have a lot of respect for what you guys do. I can't fly an airplane. I am telling you though the expense of a union organizing effort can ruin a new, growing company. If it's about pay or something else they should try to work with management. They are just to young to survive something like this. Just my opinion, but it is based on a whole lot of business experience. Stay away from the rhetoric and focus on what the issues are just a little advice from someone with a semi full head of grey hair.