Avantair- from another source

[brokeflyer]

I have a lot of respect for what you guys do. I can't fly an airplane. I am telling you though the expense of a union organizing effort can ruin a new, growing company. If it's about pay or something else they should try to work with management. They are just to young to survive something like this. Just my opinion, but it is based on a whole lot of business experience. Stay away from the rhetoric and focus on what the issues are just a little advice from someone with a semi full head of grey hair.

yeah, the alternative you suggest is much, much worse.

 

[wacoflyr]

Avantairowner, there is a lot of rhetoric flying around on websites like this. I've added my share. I wouldn't pay much attention. A very small percentage of Avantair pilots actually frequent this website. As for the union drive, I wouldn't sweat that either. We'll work it out, and no one that I've talked to wants to burn the place down. As with all the fractionals, the economy has hit us hard, but I believe we are beginning to see a little light.

Wacoflyr

 

[realityman]

I believe the Avantair pilots are smarter than this. I have been very happy with the service and love the airplane. I lived thru the NetJets Union drive and it was terrible. They lost a lot of business as a result. I am not sure Avantair could live thru something like that. I really hope as an owner this doesn't happen at Avantair. Anyone who quotes Jimmy Hoffa really needs to look at the Teamsters history. By the way management is not the enemy that is a sad sentiment to have. Believe it or not, good, caring management does exist. Avantair has such management. This is a new, growing company and something like this, at this time, can destroy it. I hope the pilots at Avantair think carefully about this.

I have no dog in this fight, but just would like to set the record straight. The union drive at Netjets was NOT where we had the tumultuous time. Netjets has had a union on property for a very long time now. We did go from Teamsters to an in-house union, but that was an internal matter within the union and didn't cause us to take any 'actions' against the owners or management.
I believe what you're referring to was the time when we were negotiating the contract that was signed in 2005. Things did get pretty rough in that time period, and it did cost us some business, no denying it. But that's a whole other storyline and you can point the finger at the union all you want, but the fact is that management had a great deal to do with that whole thing. Too much to talk about in one post.

Just wanted to mention that it wasn't an attempt to get a union on property that caused all the fuss.

 

[sshrae]

Very well said, some people love to blame unions for issues at airlines and fracs. The fact is very few people ever see the big picture that management has a lot more to do with labor issues than unions. As I have said before, even the best airlines and fracs have unions, NJA, SWA. Every large flight department should have a CBA in my opinion, having flown for companies with contracts and without I would always choose union representation.

 

[jonjuan]

I have a lot of respect for what you guys do. I can't fly an airplane. I am telling you though the expense of a union organizing effort can ruin a new, growing company. If it's about pay or something else they should try to work with management. They are just to young to survive something like this. Just my opinion, but it is based on a whole lot of business experience. Stay away from the rhetoric and focus on what the issues are just a little advice from someone with a semi full head of grey hair.

In a "new and growing company" the ceo doesn't give himself a pay increase to $900K/year after the 4th year-seriously. Look at the salary of gary kelly at southwest. It's LESS than that. Probably less than the ceo of nja as well.

 

[gret]

Gary C. Kelly-SWA

Compensation-

2009 $1.559 million
2008 $1.590 million
2007 $1.922 million
​

 

[jonjuan]

OK, my mistake. the ceo of a $10 billion market cap company with 30,000 employees makes $1.5 Million/year, while the ceo of a $60 million market cap company with 300 employees makes $900 Thousand/year. got it...

 

[gret]

No problem.

Kelly should make more, but $900K per year for a CEO is not that crazy. You have to pay to get talent and while nobody likes the boss, we need 'em.

 

[jonjuan]

No problem.

Kelly should make more, but $900K per year for a CEO is not that crazy. You have to pay to get talent and while nobody likes the boss, we need 'em.

I was being sarcastic $1MM is the average CEO pay for a S&P 500 position, you know a company worth a few Billion and multiple thousands of employees. A company that MAKES money and has a stock which trades on the nasdaq or nyse,,,,,,,,oh nevermind, you'll never figure it out.

 

[gunfyter]

... You have to pay to get talent ....

Thats what the pilots have been saying!

$900K. Thats probably close to what pilot's pay would be due to inflation since deregulation.

 

[gret]

"Vowing to keep tabs on the country's largest companies, the AFL-CIO today launched PayWatch.com, a website meant to track executive pay at the country's largest companies and monitor Wall Street lobbying.

According to the site, CEOs at the 292 S&P 500 companies for which there are data available were paid $9.25 million on average last year (including salary, bonus, stock, options and benefits), down 9 percent overall from the year prior."

 

[rettofly]

I was being sarcastic $1MM is the average CEO pay for a S&P 500 position, you know a company worth a few Billion and multiple thousands of employees. A company that MAKES money and has a stock which trades on the nasdaq or nyse,,,,,,,,oh nevermind, you'll never figure it out.

AAIR is still listed on NASDAC, isn't it?

It would be difficult to find the CEO's salary for a company that's not publicly traded, even a relative upstart.

 

[avantairowner]

I realize that CEO pay is always a big union rally cry. The reality is as an employee you want the best one and there are few who can do the job. I believe the Avantair CEO has the talent to run a multi billion dollar company. Many larger Companies have taken a run at him and he has turned them down. Keep in mind that at start ups like Avantair much of the CEO compensation is in stock and options. In new, fast growing companies the stock value can increase quickly and as a result the CEO compensation looks much higher than it truly is. The stock is only valuable when you sell it. A CEO has an extremely limited window in which to sell and generally they hold on to it until they leave the Company one way or another. I have sat on many public boards and you guys at Avantair are very lucky to have the CEO you have. Let me put it this way, has anyone been laid off? Thats how you can tell if the CEO has the right growth strategy.

 

[jonjuan]

"Vowing to keep tabs on the country's largest companies, the AFL-CIO today launched PayWatch.com, a website meant to track executive pay at the country's largest companies and monitor Wall Street lobbying.

According to the site, CEOs at the 292 S&P 500 companies for which there are data available were paid $9.25 million on average last year (including salary, bonus, stock, options and benefits), down 9 percent overall from the year prior."

Agreed-I only included the salary, not annual cash and stock bonuses, monthly living expenses, car allowance, retirement plan, etc.

 

[imacdog]

I realize that CEO pay is always a big union rally cry. The reality is as an employee you want the best one and there are few who can do the job. I believe the Avantair CEO has the talent to run a multi billion dollar company. Many larger Companies have taken a run at him and he has turned them down. Keep in mind that at start ups like Avantair much of the CEO compensation is in stock and options. In new, fast growing companies the stock value can increase quickly and as a result the CEO compensation looks much higher than it truly is. The stock is only valuable when you sell it. A CEO has an extremely limited window in which to sell and generally they hold on to it until they leave the Company one way or another. I have sat on many public boards and you guys at Avantair are very lucky to have the CEO you have. Let me put it this way, has anyone been laid off? Thats how you can tell if the CEO has the right growth strategy.

So you're willing to pay for the talent of a CEO, but not willing to pay for the best talent in the pilots that are flying you around?