Avantair- from another source

[XTW]

Calling B19!



"The Event" Has Occured at Avantair Last month I told you to expect "The Event". Well, the union cards have arrived. Pilots are already recieving them and management has already told the pilots to consider the ramifications if they unionize. Well....the ramifications of NOT unionizing have been being forced onto an 8/6 schedule, getting fired for using your sick days.....well, you already know the price of not having a respectable contract. Good luck guys. Don't blow your one and only opportunity to get your 7/7 schedule back.



Any truth to this?



X

 

[glasspilot]

Yeah, cards are out. Thanks for quoting another forum post authored by a guy who is BANNED on FLightInfo.com for life.

 

[DAS at 10/250]

People can get banned from here?

 

[wacoflyr]

It seems that the best way to get banned is to discuss someone's else's true identity on the forum and then send insulting pm's to the moderators. Most of us refrain from such behavior, but at least one troll just couldn't help himself, so now he lurks under a less popular forum's bridge, so to speak, spreading what have now become complete lies. (he used to stick a little closer to the truth.) It has been a sad watching the moral descent of a fellow human being, but that's how it goes. By the tone of his posts, he seems miserable about his past, and failed dreams. I hope for his sake that someday he finds something positive to do with his days.

 

[countbat]

Congs to Avantair bros for trying to say a big NO to the CEO / mgmt abuses. And BTW that GlassDude sounds like a perfect management a$$kisser.

 

[sshrae]

Congs to Avantair bros for trying to say a big NO to the CEO / mgmt abuses. And BTW that GlassDude sounds like a perfect management a$$kisser.

Management will say whatever they can to prevent a union from coming on property. Then they will most likely make life very difficult for the union drivers, don't let them get away with that BS. You are definitely moving in the right direction with this drive. It will no doubt lead to a better qol for you guys. Even the most employee friendly aviation companies have unions, ie: SWAPA.

 

[glasspilot]

And BTW that GlassDude sounds like a perfect management a$$kisser.

Where the he'll did that come from?!?

I have a suggestion for an a$$ you can kiss.

 

[wacoflyr]

What did you do to piss off that bat thingy? Talk about his mother, or something?

 

[glasspilot]

Dunno.

 

[rsm]

Company's like this hire union buster firms. The firm will come in and offer suggestions like pay, working conditions, bases etc to keep the union out. Then all the kool aid drinkers and scardy cats say heck yea and vote the union out. Happens all the time. Sit back and watch!!

 

[FRACTRASH]

We at Citationir are starting to see some of the same issues. I have a feeling it won't be long before union cards are sent to our pilot group. I used to belong to ALPA and couldn't stand it. I really didn't wont to work for a union shop again, well my opinion has changed and I'm tired of our pay and benefits being chipped away via an E-mail, with so much as a reason why.

 

[glasspilot]

Those are the two choices uh? Scardy cat cool-aide drinker or union supporter.


Nice view.

 

[fracjack]

where is the bar now set?

Frac companies have now witnessed how low the bar can go with a FLOPS cba. Too bad IBT is the only choice. But then again one has to wonder why now do working conditions deteriorate at other fracs? Do any of you think conditions would worsen if flops had the industry leading contract? Timing was poor with the economy but the majority got tired of the fight and settled for less instead of getting a substantial agreement. Flops management is in a good position to compete but unfortunately Peter is being robbed to finance Paul (Nextant,Sojourn and whatever else Ricci has). Their reputation is so far tarnished that it will take years for any growth if ever. Solution? There is none, the bar was set,management knows pilots won't strike since the precedent was set. Hopefully the remaining non contract fracs won't self destruct. No one wins. NetJets got lucky and are able to weather the economic storm purely on size and now their management has figured out they have too many different fleets,let's not forget their deep pockets. I think we will see an increase in corporate activity above what would normally happen with an improving economy. Airlines continue to be a p.i.t.a. and only getting worse. One bad high profile frac crash will have clients wonder why they don't just charter or buy outright. The frac party has been over for 4 years now.

 

[hangarrat]

Frac companies have now witnessed how low the bar can go with a FLOPS cba. Too bad IBT is the only choice. But then again one has to wonder why now do working conditions deteriorate at other fracs? Do any of you think conditions would worsen if flops had the industry leading contract? Timing was poor with the economy but the majority got tired of the fight and settled for less instead of getting a substantial agreement. Flops management is in a good position to compete but unfortunately Peter is being robbed to finance Paul (Nextant,Sojourn and whatever else Ricci has). Their reputation is so far tarnished that it will take years for any growth if ever. Solution? There is none, the bar was set,management knows pilots won't strike since the precedent was set. Hopefully the remaining non contract fracs won't self destruct. No one wins. NetJets got lucky and are able to weather the economic storm purely on size and now their management has figured out they have too many different fleets,let's not forget their deep pockets. I think we will see an increase in corporate activity above what would normally happen with an improving economy. Airlines continue to be a p.i.t.a. and only getting worse. One bad high profile frac crash will have clients wonder why they don't just charter or buy outright. The frac party has been over for 4 years now.

Wow, what an outlook... we should all quit the industry now, while we stil have a chance. Maybe there is still time to get into real estate or perhaps the stock market. Thanks for the heads up fracdude.

 

[Praetorian]

Don't let him bother you. He's been posting the same kind of sky is falling, chicken littleish kind of thing on our own union board. He's a furloughed pilot with some kind of axe to grind. Seems to think that since he got furloughed the union should've taken the place down so we could all join him on the unemployment line. Very sad really. The real irony is his own efforts to undermine the union during end game barganing probably cost all the flops pilots at the table. Now he says it's the unions fault.

 

[realityman]

One bad high profile frac crash will have clients wonder why they don't just charter or buy outright.

Eh. Obviously, a bad crash would be extremely bad news for the company that had it. But clients flocking away from fractionals completely? Not likely. Over the years, how many crashes have been with charter companies? What about corporate flight departments? While the individual companies that were involved with those crashes may have suffered, we haven't seen the demise of the charter industry, or corporate flight departments, because of them.

BTW, your statement about the airlines is dead on. Go TSA!!! Sure,it makes my life getting to and from work (and for personal travel), a lot less bearable, but man is it great advertising for all of business aviation! The way the airlines are going, I don't think the fractional business is going anywhere (maybe some of the individual companies won't survive, but the industry will).

 

[gunfyter]

I don't have my copy with me ... but AIN article this month shows accident rates of fractional, corporate, charter and airlines. I believe Airline and Fracs were about the same.

 

[fracjack]

Don't let him bother you. He's been posting the same kind of sky is falling, chicken littleish kind of thing on our own union board. He's a furloughed pilot with some kind of axe to grind. Seems to think that since he got furloughed the union should've taken the place down so we could all join him on the unemployment line. Very sad really. The real irony is his own efforts to undermine the union during end game barganing probably cost all the flops pilots at the table. Now he says it's the unions fault.

Wrong guy braniac, i don't work there

 

[Praetorian]

Wrong guy braniac, i don't work there

Yea, not anymore. But you are the same guy.

 

[fracjack]

Yea, not anymore. But you are the same guy.

Believe what you want. You can't refute facts and just can't stop patting yourself on the back for a union job well done. Alot more than you know have the same opinion about our special ops former airforce friend. Which leads me to believe you are on the union executive braniac committee. Perhaps you've spent too much time working for Uncle Sam and not enough in the real world of aviation. Our friend has done both and I believe he's well qualified to express his valuable opinion. The bar is low and the other fracs want to capitalize on it. That IS a fact. Flops is still the lowest paid and that's going to last a long time,provided the company does.

 

[DUATS]

I believe Airline and Fracs were about the same.

Have any of the major fractionals had a fatal crash?

(A real question - I don't know the answer.)

 

[dime line]

Have any of the major fractionals had a fatal crash?

(A real question - I don't know the answer.)

No........

 

[gunfyter]

I am just repeating what I saw in the article.

 

[Ludicrous Speed]

book

This is repeating what many others have posted:

Best thing for any pilot during a rodeo is to read "Confessions of a Union Buster" by Levitt. Available (rarely) in used bookstores & online.

 

[rajflyboy]

This is repeating what many others have posted:

Best thing for any pilot during a rodeo is to read "Confessions of a Union Buster" by Levitt. Available (rarely) in used bookstores & online.

I thought the best book for any pilot to read is this:

http://www.bookwormomaha.com/store/pc-68-2-pleased-but-not-satisfied.aspx

 

[gunfyter]

"...There are those who balk at the fight. They place their confidence in management instead of their fellow workers.

Management feeds on this weakness by handing out PROMISES like candy and quickly reneging if the workers lose the election.

But Management MUST be held Accountable.

As Teamsters we fight for what's right for working families."

-- Jimmy Hoffa --

This was my favorite message from the General President when we were Teamsters....

 

[avantairowner]

I believe the Avantair pilots are smarter than this. I have been very happy with the service and love the airplane. I lived thru the NetJets Union drive and it was terrible. They lost a lot of business as a result. I am not sure Avantair could live thru something like that. I really hope as an owner this doesn't happen at Avantair. Anyone who quotes Jimmy Hoffa really needs to look at the Teamsters history. By the way management is not the enemy that is a sad sentiment to have. Believe it or not, good, caring management does exist. Avantair has such management. This is a new, growing company and something like this, at this time, can destroy it. I hope the pilots at Avantair think carefully about this.

 

[dime line]

I believe the Avantair pilots are smarter than this. I have been very happy with the service and love the airplane. I lived thru the NetJets Union drive and it was terrible. They lost a lot of business as a result. I am not sure Avantair could live thru something like that. I really hope as an owner this doesn't happen at Avantair. Anyone who quotes Jimmy Hoffa really needs to look at the Teamsters history.

By the way management is not the enemy that is a sad sentiment to have.

Believe it or not, good, caring management does exist. Avantair has such management. This is a new, growing company and something like this, at this time, can destroy it. I hope the pilots at Avantair think carefully about this.

You must be friends with the CFO, (He is on here), the only reason a union is voted on at a company is bad management. Your funny.

 

[brokeflyer]

I believe the Avantair pilots are smarter than this. I have been very happy with the service and love the airplane. I lived thru the NetJets Union drive and it was terrible. They lost a lot of business as a result. I am not sure Avantair could live thru something like that. I really hope as an owner this doesn't happen at Avantair. Anyone who quotes Jimmy Hoffa really needs to look at the Teamsters history. By the way management is not the enemy that is a sad sentiment to have. Believe it or not, good, caring management does exist. Avantair has such management. This is a new, growing company and something like this, at this time, can destroy it. I hope the pilots at Avantair think carefully about this.

As an owner are you that cheap that you want your family flying on a broken airplane with a tired pilot just you can shave a $1000 off the price? You shop for the cheapest Doctor as well?

A company gets the union they deserve. This place makes the pilots work more days and adds in a pay cut on top of that.....then management gives themselves a raise.

Its sad that pilots need a union at all, but until management gets it together that is the only option available.

Safety is expensive

 

[avantairowner]

I have a lot of respect for what you guys do. I can't fly an airplane. I am telling you though the expense of a union organizing effort can ruin a new, growing company. If it's about pay or something else they should try to work with management. They are just to young to survive something like this. Just my opinion, but it is based on a whole lot of business experience. Stay away from the rhetoric and focus on what the issues are just a little advice from someone with a semi full head of grey hair.