Avantair called

[brokeflyer]

Broke, I usually like your posts, but here you sound just like NJW. I don't know didly about Netjets. Citationair? Flex? Flops? I wish them all the best. But unless they worked here, they don't know crap about what goes on here, anymore than I know about what goes on at their outfits. Good luck wherever you work, Broke. I hope you have the working conditions you want. I do.

Is this a pattern? Is all of this chatter because we are actually hiring and dare I say it, growing? Is this jelousy?

well you cant print sarcasm. its fun to watch b19 get all flustered.

 

[Dilligaff]

I thought njw said she was going to keep her nose out of our business since she has no clue what happens here. I knew it was too good to be true that she would honor her word.

Glass, thanks for egging her on - it's truly appreciated, really. (like broke just said, you can't print sarcasm)

 

[netjetwife]

Broke, I strongly believe in doing all we can to get our true meaning to come across as we intend it to. In the spirit of some friendly advice... here are some tips:

= Sarcasm I also use it for frustration and general disbelief at what I'm hearing.

:erm: helps me show that I find something particularly odd, unsettling, etc.

is for teasing, or to share a private joke.

The rest are all pretty much self-explanatory. I believe they were designed to enhance communication and help avoid misunderstandings when our intent might not be as clear as we'd like. It might feel strange at first if you aren't used to them but I think you'd be pleased w/the results if you give the emoticons a try... NJW

 

[netjetwife]

Dill, as you have rightly noted, I responded to a request from Glass....and also to Waco during the course of setting the record straight after B19 posted false statements about me and my husband for the umpteenth time.

I'm quite certain almost everyone posting here reserves the right to counter false accusations. A few folks might not care about their reputation but they're probably a very small minority. Thus, I can well appreciate the Avantair group's desire to distance themselves from one as seemingly unbalanced and dishonest as B19, who has identified himself as being a member of the inner circle at Avantair. That is why I thought it was worth a try to pitch my idea to you guys after Waco offered his very UNhelpful.... suggestion for dealing with B19's obsessive attacks.

Yes, I totally agree that every group has its tools/rotten apples. But it is widely noted that people of integrity will stand up for decency and honesty. Most realize that you give the appearance of condoning attacks and deceit when you stand by silently and make no effort to stop it. I know that I would go to the aid of any FI member who was being lied about and harassed on the board. I would feel even more of an obligation to do so if the attacker was from NJ and was publicly casting NJ in a bad light in the process. I thought that perhaps some of the Avantair pilots would share that viewpoint.

It seems that I'm mistaken in thinking that and also in making a distinction between an occasional friendly chat/observation (especially when I was responding to dialog directed at me first...) and a much more involved agenda ....for example the way B19 is always on the NJ threads, running his smear campaign and spewing venom at the Union supporters.

I didn't realize you guys were so anti-social.... Or perhaps it's just a bit of "shoot the messenger" attitude regarding B19 and his connection to Avantair? :erm: Well...if Glass ever decides to question the veracity of my posts again you guys might want to tell him not to bother .... Unlike B19, I believe in posting accurately and truthfully. And if Waco suddenly has some brillant... idea involving me, you might want to ask him to keep it to himself if you don't want to hear me offer an alternative I find much more acceptable than being locked in a thread with the "rotten apple" manager who claims to work at Avantair. :erm:

Good luck!
NJW

 

[B19 Flyer]

Dill, as you have rightly noted, I responded to a request from Glass....and also to Waco during the course of setting the record straight after B19 posted false statements about me and my husband for the umpteenth time.

I'm quite certain almost everyone posting here reserves the right to counter false accusations. A few folks might not care about their reputation but they're probably a very small minority. Thus, I can well appreciate the Avantair group's desire to distance themselves from one as seemingly unbalanced and dishonest as B19, who has identified himself as being a member of the inner circle at Avantair. That is why I thought it was worth a try to pitch my idea to you guys after Waco offered his very UNhelpful.... suggestion for dealing with B19's obsessive attacks.

Yes, I totally agree that every group has its tools/rotten apples. But it is widely noted that people of integrity will stand up for decency and honesty. Most realize that you give the appearance of condoning attacks and deceit when you stand by silently and make no effort to stop it. I know that I would go to the aid of any FI member who was being lied about and harassed on the board. I would feel even more of an obligation to do so if the attacker was from NJ and was publicly casting NJ in a bad light in the process. I thought that perhaps some of the Avantair pilots would share that viewpoint.

It seems that I'm mistaken in thinking that and also in making a distinction between an occasional friendly chat/observation (especially when I was responding to dialog directed at me first...) and a much more involved agenda ....for example the way B19 is always on the NJ threads, running his smear campaign and spewing venom at the Union supporters.

I didn't realize you guys were so anti-social.... Or perhaps it's just a bit of "shoot the messenger" attitude regarding B19 and his connection to Avantair? :erm: Well...if Glass ever decides to question the veracity of my posts again you guys might want to tell him not to bother .... Unlike B19, I believe in posting accurately and truthfully. And if Waco suddenly has some brillant... idea involving me, you might want to ask him to keep it to himself if you don't want to hear me offer an alternative I find much more acceptable than being locked in a thread with the "rotten apple" manager who claims to work at Avantair. :erm:

Good luck!
NJW

I dunno...


This looks to me like somebody bailed of out of AMR because they didn't like what the union negotiated. All this was in the contract, right? He could have stayed.. he chose not to. Those words you wrote below.. "He declined" are pretty powerful words.

I consider that bailing out when he didn't get what he though he should have. So, once again..what is false about what I said?


This looks like a union problem, not a managment problem. Your CBA supposed to protect you right?

Looks to me like a voluntary hitting of the silk to me...

All I did was post my interpretation based on your own words:

"I definitely agree, and experienced this firsthand when my husband was laid off from AA right after 9-11. He declined to go into the Eagle side of the airline not only because of the lower pay (he'd just recently completed training), but also because he was hearing that the Eagle pilots didn't want the regular AA guys there--too many hard feelings over the wide pay gap.


http://forums.flightinfo.com/showpost.php?p=414999&postcount=27

 

[netjetwife]

To set the record straight...

My husband interviewed with and was hired by American Airlines, a major carrier--not by the regional one, Eagle. The American pilots' Union, APA, made up only of AA pilots, had nothing to do with the job offer at Eagle. That was strictly a management idea...a ploy my husband and many others firmly believe...to move the higher paid pilots off the AA payroll and onto the chump-change salary scale at Eagle. When I posted that he "declined" the offer, I was too polite. (I was new here then...) Actually, we were both disgusted and my husband rejected management's insult without a moment's hesitation.

To reiterate, my husband holds no ill-will for the APA Union; he fully supports their cause, and would be part of their Volunteer cadre today had AA management not furloughed him against his will. As most of you know, a Union can only negotiate the rules governing a furlough and a recall. My husband no more "bailed" or left as a "voluntary" decision than any of the frac pilots who have been sadly and unwillingly furloughed. Our experience being a victim of managers' mismanagement and poor financial decisions is one of the reasons we have a lot of empathy for furloughed pilots and their families.

I strongly encourage any FI member who reads a questionable and/or suspicious interpretation of my words to ask me for a clarification of my post. Be advised that B19 has a history of twisting the words of the Union supporters he is constantly trying to discredit. Case in point, the post he quoted (and has twisted) was a general discussion of the pay differences between the majors and the regionals, and between the PICs and SICs at NJA at that time. There was nothing in it to justify the warped version he has posted on this thread and another one, as a direct comparison will show:

My post: I definitely agree, and experienced this firsthand when my husband was laid off from AA right after 9-11. He declined to go into the Eagle side of the airline not only because of the lower pay but also because he was hearing that the Eagle pilots didn't want the regular AA guys there--too many hard feelings over the wide pay gap. We understood that. Flying is flying---are you any more careful when you have 100 passengers as opposed to 10? ... The wide pay disparity between FOs and Captains disturbs me as well, esp at NJets where the FO is typed as a Cpt, too. I, too, think that it would be good for all pilots across the board, if the gaps in pay were narrowed. Without a doubt, it would be much better for all the wives and children out there!

B19's warped rewrite of history from post #59 on the 1st Qtr Results--NJ thread: NJW openly stated that her husband bailed out of AMR when they didn't like what the union did there when they were low on the seniority list. Now that they are safe and high on the list it's easy for her to go ahead and give her rhetoric because they can't be touched. If they were low on the list today and in danger of being screwed like what the union was doing to them at AMR, you can bet your butt that she wouldn't be quite so loving of the union life. After all, they bailed last time.. so it's clear she speaks from both sides of her mouth.

HA!!! That post was from 2004, my 27th!! I've been speaking out about the affect of management decisions on the wives and children of pilots --clearly and consistently for 6 years! I'll put my track record for open, honest posting up against B19's any day. For example, is he or isn't he still in management at Avantair? Ask him and standby for more tap-dancing...

In short, if you value fairness and accurate posting, don't believe anything B19 posts about me or my husband. Or any other Union supporter, for that matter. As many have noticed, he has an apparent hatred/obsession where Unions are concerned. :erm:

I will now be placing him back on my ignore list. I had only taken the word-twister off of it to do the research required to demonstrate that I had accurately reported his connection to Avantair. I fully support my fellow FI members who have called for a boycott on reading B19's posts because of his typical and obviously (to us) unethical behavior you see demonstrated in this thread. NJW

Their families and their profession are better off when pilots have a seat at the table.....
Please give that careful consideration.

 

[learflyer]

so...Do you guys support SEIU and all of their antics then?

 

[HazMat]

Actually, I think it's even more important to have your pay, schedule, benefits, etc protected during bad economic times when management may be even more tempted to do the easy thing and just slash those. Under the demand of trying to balance competing interests, management will not be considering things from the pilotgroup's perspective first...:erm: At times like that you are very lucky to have a legally binding contract speaking for you.

Best wishes to the FltOps pilots and families,
NJW

Really, sounds like a company other than Avantair where there was no furlough, FO,s got a pay raise and we all just got stock options and from what I hear there is more good news on the horizon. Thanks for your trust worthy insight though. Go back to your love affair with b19 now. By the way it does appear that he caught you in a lie. The fact that you wrote two novels on different threads just shows you know you got busted

 

[wacoflyr]

...Thus, I can well appreciate the Avantair group's desire to distance themselves from one as seemingly unbalanced and dishonest as B19, who has identified himself as being a member of the inner circle at Avantair....

This statement is present tense. The thread you brought forward was from 2006, four years ago. As has been pointed out to you, exactly two members of the current management team at Avantair date from that time. Do you have information about his present place of employment that I don't have? No? You know that you demand accurate statements from others, or you call them on it. Hypocrisy, or oversight? I'm curious. Please respond.

 

[wacoflyr]

well you cant print sarcasm. its fun to watch b19 get all flustered.

Broke, my apologies.

 

[wacoflyr]

No response from NJW, although she has posted on other matters. Your silence speaks volumes, just as B19's does when his mistakes get pointed out.

 

[netjetwife]

This statement is present tense. The thread you brought forward was from 2006, four years ago. As has been pointed out to you, exactly two members of the current management team at Avantair date from that time. Sorry, I didn't realize that you could narrow it down that closely. But what does that mater? The employee who posts here would be the one to answer the question. Do you have information about his present place of employment that I don't have? I have his documented posts and I'm allowing him the courtesy of answering that himself (hint, hint...) without me twisting his posts in any way. That said, we only have one place of employment on file (post bank) for him, and minus an update, one could reasonably surmise that it is still applicable, especially considering the many opportunities pilots have given him to update his volunteered info. You know that you demand accurate statements from others, or you call them on it. Hypocrisy, or oversight? I'm curious. Please respond.

Sure: It's a work in progress, still in collection mode. I'm trying to use B19's own words...not a history rewrite, not a skewed paraphrasing like he did regarding my husband's AA time on the line, brought forward from 2001, 9 years ago--which easily justifies a 4 yr look back... I have invited him to set the record straight, frankly, a lot fairer and and much politer than he spoke to me. I agree that the questions are being posed currently. If he will just answer it (now we have future tense, too..) then we'll all have a very clear understanding of B19's connection to the frac industry in 2006 and presently. To make it formal: B19 Flyer, we are updating your file. Please answer the following questions in the type size of your choice...

1) You have identified yourself as being a management employee of AvantAir in 2006, though not a pilot. What was the position, title, job, etc you had?

2) Are you still currently employed by AvantAir? If so, what is the position, title, job, etc you hold there?

3) If not, when did you leave, and is your current job in the fractional industry? If so, which company?


Upon completion of customary answering, the question of your employment will be immediately clarified and all Flight Info Members will be advised to use the current information to henceforth avoid confusion.

 

[wacoflyr]

I appreciate you making it clear that you understand that you do not know where B19 works. So all that stuff about Avantair being "embarrased" is not relevant. Any more than... No. I won't stoop down to that level.

Oh. and we both know he is not going to answer your questions, anymore than I would. Are you going to tell us your street address? (don't) So what's the point?

 

[netjetwife]

No response from NJW, although she has posted on other matters. Your silence speaks volumes, just as B19's does when his mistakes get pointed out.

The only "secret" behind my posting is that I'm a very bad typer...:blush: and I spend a lot of time on the format, trying to make my post look good. Everything spell-checked. Additionally, I take questions seriously and give my answers a lot of thought. Which often leads to changes...and given the above scenario... I'm much slower than you jet jocks... That was used just for fun and if you guys find it offensive I'm sure I'll hear about it.

 

[wacoflyr]

...........

 

[netjetwife]

I appreciate you making it clear that you understand that you do not know where B19 works. You must have skipped right over this statement: I have his documented posts and I'm allowing him the courtesy of answering that himself (hint, hint...) without me twisting his posts in any way. That said, we only have one place of employment on file (post bank) for him, and minus an update, one could reasonably surmise that it is still applicable, especially considering the many opportunities pilots have given him to update his volunteered info.
Oh. and we both know he is not going to answer your questions, anymore than I would. Are you going to tell us your street address? (don't) So what's the point? One is very specific, not shared. The job info is general and is common knowledge for many,if not most, posting here.

I do not concur. Many FI members have shared their job/connection to the industry to establish credibility, either immediately as I did, or in response to the first time asked. Given the fact that B19 has repeatedly twisted my words, posted false info about me, and has demanded lots of answers from my self and others just to pursue his personal agenda, it would be very unfair...to the point of being suspicious, not to mention hypocritical...for him to withhold the same knowledge he regularly uses in his smear campaign. Case in point, my husband's career history and service in the Union.

 

[Dilligaff]

Dill, as you have rightly noted, I responded to a request from Glass He responded to your comment about Avantair - you brought it up. Please honor your word to stay out of our business since you have no clue what goes on here.

I'm quite certain almost everyone posting here reserves the right to counter false accusations. That is what I'm doing now.

For a while it was pleasant to sign on here and not read about how horribly oppressive it is to work here from someone who knows nothing about our company.

 

[netjetwife]

Dill, my issue is with B19. You guys can't seem to separate his reputed employment there from the idea of someone supposedly interfering. I can easily do that. To me where he works is not the main point. I don't want to discuss any issues there. I want B19 to have to treat fellow FI members fairly. Almost everyone here has established their credibility by providing their connection. So can he, especially since he has tried to trash my reputation.

He made an issue of my husband's past career experience from 9 yrs ago. An event from a company not in the industry at all. Fairness mandates that his connection voluntarily discussed 4 yrs ago is likewise open to comment, particularly as the company is part of the industry and thus more relevant.

Your complaint is easily solved. Practice selective reading. That is the democratic thing to do. Each reader decides for him/her self.

 

[learflyer]

How much time do you guys spend talking about B19? Don't give me the "fighting for what's right" BS either. Go check out the stock market and see if the company gives a $hit about unions. Once again, I was one who voted for our union at flops. That was a different world back then economically. Now, just be happy with a job.

 

[dime line]

How much time do you guys spend talking about B19? Don't give me the "fighting for what's right" BS either. Go check out the stock market and see if the company gives a $hit about unions. Once again, I was one who voted for our union at flops. That was a different world back then economically. Now, just be happy with a job.

Go Get em Brother!