August 1/2 NJA interviews

[Hawker dude]

Show Me the Money!!

 

[bosdrx]

Don't come here it's going to be a long long long time as an FO at 40,000 a year. Upgrades are at a snails pace and now captains are bidding from the small planes to other small planes slowing upgrades even more.

I've thought about this statement alot. Kind of a sh!tty thing to say to someone that is excited about getting a seniority number. It may be partially true, but it's probably safe to say that no one is making ONLY 40k after perdiem, ot, expenses, holiday pay (which I've only heard about, please correct me if im wrong) ect. Not to mention money saved on medical benefits... The obvious option for me would have been to go to Continental, but their pay/work rules/pbs are so abismal, that I hardly considered it. I did the math and found that I could live on 45 to 50k for the next 5 years. (Thank God my girl makes good $$!) However, I couldnt afford CAL first year pay even with a cheap mortgae and no kids. I imagine, with all the information out there, most people that applied have done the same analysis.

As far as uprades go, I think somone else said it. What will it be at DAL, CAL, NWA, FedEX, UPS ect? 5 to 10 years? So why tell people to stay away when some of these things will change? If it were me, I'd explain the issues to someone who was interested and have them make up their own mind... Besides, would new hires help YOUR seniority number?

Just .02 from a guy that just made the decision to join up regardless of these issues.

 

[popgoesbubble]

I don't think Allen was dicouraging anyone from coming here far from it but I thinks he was just telling guys to be prepared for upgrades to take longer then 5 years. remember guys I have over 2 years on property and I'm still 160 numbers from upgrade you guys will be 800 numbers behind me so do the math it's not gonna be 24 months like derinda or Linda are saying.

You did hit alot of good points thought 1st year pay is $50K on the 7/7 with with OT Holiday pay and per diem. compared to 1st year at Jetblue CO NWA or UAL. plus if you have a family no one can touch our medical benefits it's FREEE!!!!!!

This is a good job just dont be surprised when your SIC at year 4 and your upgrade is still 160 numbers and guys like me are Bouncing around chasing type ratings and telling you only I can fly owner legs and I keep all tips and AVtrip and Atlantic Bucks cuz by then I'll be a X captain and I'll have a small penis like CE750Driver by then.

 

[Hawker dude]

I've thought about this statement alot. Kind of a sh!tty thing to say to someone that is excited about getting a seniority number. It may be partially true, but it's probably safe to say that no one is making ONLY 40k after perdiem, ot, expenses, holiday pay (which I've only heard about, please correct me if im wrong) ect. Not to mention money saved on medical benefits... The obvious option for me would have been to go to Continental, but their pay/work rules/pbs are so abismal, that I hardly considered it. I did the math and found that I could live on 45 to 50k for the next 5 years. (Thank God my girl makes good $$!) However, I couldnt afford CAL first year pay even with a cheap mortgae and no kids. I imagine, with all the information out there, most people that applied have done the same analysis.

As far as uprades go, I think somone else said it. What will it be at DAL, CAL, NWA, FedEX, UPS ect? 5 to 10 years? So why tell people to stay away when some of these things will change? If it were me, I'd explain the issues to someone who was interested and have them make up their own mind... Besides, would new hires help YOUR seniority number?

Just .02 from a guy that just made the decision to join up regardless of these issues.

what you're saying is the whole problem...

You're not married, no kids, and your woman makes the money.

for your info Marry, 40 to 50K ain't much for people with kids and a house and a car payment and living in todays economy sucks.

So hike your skirt up and demand more money Sally.

 

[bosdrx]

what you're saying is the whole problem...

You're not married, no kids, and your woman makes the money.

for your info Marry, 40 to 50K ain't much for people with kids and a house and a car payment and living in todays economy sucks.

So hike your skirt up and demand more money Sally.

I didn't mean to imply that I thought FO wages were ok, I'm all about more money for FO's. I was just saying that it works ok (not perfect) for me, and hopefully other guys that are considering coming to NJA had thought about the same things. First year pay is still way more than CAL and some of the other majors, especially with some of the other benefits. But obviously it doesn't pay much to be a long term FO. Hopefully things will change for the better. I'm just not on the property yet and don't wanna put my foot completely in my mouth

 

[Dr Pepper]

I think most are content with 1st year pay. It is years 2-5 as an FO that are distressing. Others make it work too. They commute from more affordable locations.

 

[Allen1]

PIC gettin PIC bids... I dont completely understand. If a PIC in the Ultra takes a PIC slot in the Hawker doesnt that open up a slot in the Ultra? I think this was covered on another thread but I think I missed something...

Yes it does but it also slow down the process a lot. It might take awhile based on when there is a training slot open at flight safety. If there are no slim slots available its just keeps clogging the system more and more for every pic that swaps to another pic spot.

 

[RP170]

And now back to the orginal topic:

Got the call this afternoon. 10/8 class for the Ultra in PBI.

Application was accepted 4/25 and interview was on 8/2 for those of you who are thinking of applying. Had 5 letters of rec from NJA guys.

What do you guys that have flown the Ultra think about it?

 

[bosdrx]

And now back to the orginal topic:

Got the call this afternoon. 10/8 class for the Ultra in PBI.

Application was accepted 4/25 and interview was on 8/2 for those of you who are thinking of applying. Had 5 letters of rec from NJA guys.

What do you guys that have flown the Ultra think about it?

Hey thats great! I'm in the 10/08 class for the X in TEB. See ya there.

 

[Ultra Grump]

What do you guys that have flown the Ultra think about it?

Piece of crap. But for you? It's great!

 

[skiandsurf]

Good news for you guys. Congrats and welcome aboard.

Wondering what they are telling you guys in the interview regarding upgrade times. Are they being honest about the slowdown?

 

[bosdrx]

Good news for you guys. Congrats and welcome aboard.

Wondering what they are telling you guys in the interview regarding upgrade times. Are they being honest about the slowdown?

Nah... In June they told me it was still running 24 months.

 

[CRJFlyer]

I'll be in 10/8 class for the X also (TEB)...I interviewed in June but turned down an Aug. 6th class. I wanted to hold out for an airplane w/ an APU.

We were told 2-3 yrs. for upgrade also...But after spending over 4 yrs at Comair w/out upgrading I'm really not concerned with waiting 4-5 at NJ. Especially considering that when I do upgrade I'll be making a descent wage as opposed to waiting 4-5 at Comair to make a sh^^y wage.

 

[Twotter76]

And now back to the orginal topic:

Got the call this afternoon. 10/8 class for the Ultra in PBI.

Application was accepted 4/25 and interview was on 8/2 for those of you who are thinking of applying. Had 5 letters of rec from NJA guys.

What do you guys that have flown the Ultra think about it?

Congrats and welcome aboard! The Ultra isn't a bad airplane, just a little cozy and in dire need of an APU. Most trips are 2 hours or less and you will see some very cool out of the way places. I have heard that the workload isn't what it used to be, so not bad in that regard either. The lav sucks (and stinks), you will quickly learn to tip heavily to have it taken care of. Decent performer if a bit on the slow side but good out of the short and high runways. Welcome to NJA!

 

[RP170]

Congrats and welcome aboard! The Ultra isn't a bad airplane, just a little cozy and in dire need of an APU. Most trips are 2 hours or less and you will see some very cool out of the way places. I have heard that the workload isn't what it used to be, so not bad in that regard either. The lav sucks (and stinks), you will quickly learn to tip heavily to have it taken care of. Decent performer if a bit on the slow side but good out of the short and high runways. Welcome to NJA!

Thanks for the info. I'm glad to be here. My buddy on the 400 says it's at least better than that one, but I'm guessing that's about it

 

[CA1900]

I know with that grammar, I'm not talking with Warren Buffet.

If you're going to criticize someone's grammar, you probably ought to make damn sure that your spelling is perfect. I'm sure Mr. Buffett would appreciate it.


To the guys that just got hired: Welcome!

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

A friend of mine was told if he was hired at DAL now he wouldn't upgrade to capt for 15 years. His DAL friend told him how long he had been at DAL without upgrade.

His friend was kind of right, but he is working with old info, because there was no hiring from 2001-2007.

A DAL captain bid came out, and the DAL guys on various boards said the jr captain would be a 1999 hire. If you went to DAL now, you would be 3 years junior from a guy who just made captain now.

You're hired in the 2nd half of 2007. Going 12 months back for new hires you're now to the beginning of 2001. You then go back 2 more years to 1999.

So, it could be as low as a 3 year upgrade at DAL now. The are hiring a ton and buying a ton of planes, most of which are long range, which means more pilots are needed per plane, which means more captains per plane the the older domestic models.

cliff
ILN

 

[100fly]

Where in the hell did DAL upgrades come from. We are talking about NJA, not DAL. You should post this information in the Majors section where people want to go to DAL.

Thanks.

 

[Hawker dude]

Hi!

A friend of mine was told if he was hired at DAL now he wouldn't upgrade to capt for 15 years. His DAL friend told him how long he had been at DAL without upgrade.

His friend was kind of right, but he is working with old info, because there was no hiring from 2001-2007.

A DAL captain bid came out, and the DAL guys on various boards said the jr captain would be a 1999 hire. If you went to DAL now, you would be 3 years junior from a guy who just made captain now.

You're hired in the 2nd half of 2007. Going 12 months back for new hires you're now to the beginning of 2001. You then go back 2 more years to 1999.

So, it could be as low as a 3 year upgrade at DAL now. The are hiring a ton and buying a ton of planes, most of which are long range, which means more pilots are needed per plane, which means more captains per plane the the older domestic models.

cliff
ILN

OK Pyle, that's great if you're at DAL. We are talking about NJA. Look at DAL FO payscales, and compare them to the NJA payscales. NJA FO payscales after year one suck. So I don't see the point of comparing them to DAL Capt. upgrades?

It's about making a living. a pilot should be able to support the family without worrying about an upgrade.

 

[atpcliff]

Hi!

Sorry-it would've made more sense to add this:

popgoesthebubble wrote:

But back to the real question Netjets is still a great company to work for compaired to a Regional airline. but be prepared to not upgrade for awhile not as long at Delta, UAL or Alaska which is + 10 Years. However, still looking at Delta looks like there doing alot of Hiring into the 75/76 and 2nd year pay is $77 hr at 85 hours a month thats about $85K at second year compared to 60 -65K here. but we don't have to commute or have crash pads, airport cars and we pocket all are per diem as we get free crew meals. But as stated IBT and the company have to address FO pay rates here otherwise were gonna lose guys to the majors.

I don't think upgrades at DAL, USAir (who will hire very soon) or CAL will be too long, which puts more pressure on NJA to increase FO pay. It's hard to tell about upgrades at NWA. UAL hasn't ordered any new planes, so upgrades there WILL probably be long.

cliff
ILN

 

[RP170]

I take it if you are hired into the Ultra you do not fly the Encore as well? How quickly are they currently retiring the Ultra from the fleet?

 

[CA1900]

I take it if you are hired into the Ultra you do not fly the Encore as well?

Correct. They were a combined fleet in the past when the Encores were new, but they're now a completely separately fleet.

Not sure on the speed of the Ultra retirements.

 

[172driver]

We have about 60 Ultras now. Replacing about one a month with the Encore + starting at the end of this year. There will still be plenty of them for you to fly until your lock is up Doesn't seem to be a super busy fleet for the most part, and at least you are missing this heat wave of a summer in it.

 

[woota]

Got the call today. October 8th indoc. and the xls. Based in CMH.

 

[imacdog]

Congrats woota, and welcome aboard! :beer: The Excel is a pretty fun fleet to be on, but be prepared to work!

 

[RP170]

I am curious as to what the differences are between the Ultra/Encore/Encore+? I was browsing on the NetJets corporate website and it looked like the cockpit layout and avionics were identical on the Ultra/Encore. I don't believe they had any info about the Encore+ on there. Is it structural and powerplant differences for the most part? Thanks for the info.

 

[RP170]

Got the call today. October 8th indoc. and the xls. Based in CMH.

See you there!

 

[CA1900]

I am curious as to what the differences are between the Ultra/Encore/Encore+? I was browsing on the NetJets corporate website and it looked like the cockpit layout and avionics were identical on the Ultra/Encore.

They are indeed similar. Biggest differences with the Encore are a hot wing instead of boots, trailing link gear, more powerful engines, and the Honeywell FMZ FMS instead of the Ultra's [SIZE=-1]GNS XLS FMS. (The FMZ is used in several of our other models, including the Excel.) The Honeywell Primus 1000 EFIS is on both the Ultra and Encore.[/SIZE]

I don't believe they had any info about the Encore+ on there. Is it structural and powerplant differences for the most part?

The Encore+ has Collins Proline 21 avionics -- that's the biggest change with it. They moved away from the Honeywell stuff entirely. (Same story with the XLS+ when it comes out.)

 

[FLYLOW22]

I take it if you are hired into the Ultra you do not fly the Encore as well? How quickly are they currently retiring the Ultra from the fleet?

"As fast as we can sell them", is the answer I got when I asked.

At any one time, NJA has 2 on the market and Cessna is pumping out the 560EP as a replacement for now.

In the future, a CJ model may augment and further diversify the current 560 fleet.

It appears that Cessna will be assisting with fleet disposal of some of the 560's while NJ Disposals continues finding buyers for slightly used Ultras.

I look forward to the Ultra being the DC9 of my career. I've flown FADEC, auto throttles, auto land and fly by wire... the Ultra has none of that but its a fun plane. While it's fun, it's VERY manual in every way. Viva la automation.... at least some.

I wouldn't look for the U-Boat fleet to survive but a few years and I bet that captain bids for the U-Boat will all but dry up in the neart future as the fleet compresses.


Thread Aircraft Key
U-Boat, 560 = Ultra
560E = Encore
560EP = Encore Plus
CJ = Citation Jet Series

 

[FLYLOW22]

I am curious as to what the differences are between the Ultra/Encore/Encore+? I was browsing on the NetJets corporate website and it looked like the cockpit layout and avionics were identical on the Ultra/Encore. I don't believe they had any info about the Encore+ on there. Is it structural and powerplant differences for the most part? Thanks for the info.

Main differences in the 3 models are technological upgrades that occured over the years.

Engines, fuel controls, heated wings vs. boots, aviaonics packages, landing gear... these are some of the major categories of change in this aircraft model over time.