Aug. 4th Pinnacle Interviewees

[Lear70]

A friend of mine went to Gulfstream and he said a 19 year old got hired at Pinnacle and he should be flying the line now.

Yup... he's in MSP - flew my first trip this month with him during interface. Nice guy, had about 1,000 hours after getting all his ratings by 18 then a year at Gulfstream. Didn't do too shabby of a job... better than some of the 400 hour guys I've flown with.

 

[flagshipper]

It really has nothing to do with age. I am real young and have had several people ask me if I am a streamer. I have instructed, towed banners, and flew freight for a little more than a year before coming to pinnacle. The only difference is that I made a hair over 30k instead of paying that much from daddy's account to get my spot

 

[IP076]

News Flash,

(PFT issues asside)

There have been/are many airlines that have/are hired(ing) 300-500 hour "wonders".

ASA/Pinnacle/Colgan/COEX/Eagle/Great Lakes/Horizon/ACA(Indy Air) to name a few, and hundreds over seas that currently put 200-500 hour pilots in 737's, 320's, and 757's.

I know several Gulfstreamers that had more than 2000 hours TT before coming to 9E.

I think you kind of hinted at this...

Airlines hiring people with low time doesn't bother me, but people paying to work at an airline (Gulfstream) is what pisses me off the most about this business. I guess there were too many 400 hour rich kids to take a 2500 hour 25 year old with 135 experience....oh well...try again later

They did mention an 18 to 24 month upgrade during my interview session.

 

[wingnutt]

They did mention an 18 to 24 month upgrade during my interview session.

so im guessing by the tone in here this is not the case. i have a good friend who took a job over there mostly because of this. hes got almost 3,000 total and was/is told by everyone that (his) upgrade will be faster because of his total time. does that sound plausible, that the low timers will be years down the road, but the higher time guys will be much less, or should he be wearing smoke-proof underware?

 

[regionalhell]

If only I could be so lucky!

I wish my mommy and daddy had dropped 27 grand so I could have gone to Gulfstream Academy too. That paying your dues Sh*t is way overrated.

 

[dondk]

so im guessing by the tone in here this is not the case. i have a good friend who took a job over there mostly because of this. hes got almost 3,000 total and was/is told by everyone that (his) upgrade will be faster because of his total time. does that sound plausible, that the low timers will be years down the road, but the higher time guys will be much less, or should he be wearing smoke-proof underware?

This is a hard to answer.. we are going VERY junior.. My guess would the next vacancy we will see people in the mid 600's to high 700's on the upgrade list. We currently have about 950 on the roster. The issue's or problems that will plague the higher time new hires is getting that 500 in type. The reserve ranks are starting to grow and at some point reserve may be better than 8 months. Most reserve guys may get 30-40 hours a month.. do the math and you can see the dilemna.

The next issue is many of the streamers or guys hired with 1500/300 (or close to it) back in '02 are now closing in on the 3000 TT. The company has been building lines in the 90's for a few months now.. These guys will become factors with upgrade since they can already hold it by seniority.

Between sen# 450 and 650 there are a good 100-125 guys who are short of the TT. Between 650 and a new hire there a good deal of people with better than the 3000TT needed, but they may not have the 500 in type yet.

As for age.. Personally I don't really care.. I have flown with some adult 23 year old Captains and some 50 year old Captains who are kids. I only comment on the fact that in my 3 years the average age of most of the new hires were in the mid 20's to early 30's. Now it "appears" we are hiring many that are 25 or less. It could be a strategy for negioations from the company to keep a "younger" work force who may be willing to work with the company rather than an older workforce who would be more willing to hold out.

 

[flagshipper]

The average age in my class was 33.8 years old and range was 25 to 51 and the class ahead and behind me was very similar but i would not doubt at all that they like the young guys more because they will be more flexible negotiations coming up

 

[Rook]

Nothing against the guys from GIA but don't knock those of us that instructed to get to where we are now. Some of us (me included) actually enjoyed teaching others how to fly airplanes and are better pilots for it. It gave me the time to move on and graduate to scaring myself silly as a freight dog. I'd still instruct part time if I had the time and some motivating students.

Rook

"I'm rich Beeotch!!"
'HONK HONK!!!'

 

[eightdriver]

I heard that Pinnacle was going to start looking for Captains off the street because of a shortage of qualified FO's. Any truth to that???

 

[dondk]

I heard that Pinnacle was going to start looking for Captains off the street because of a shortage of qualified FO's. Any truth to that???

I don't know how to answer this.. The company "line" is no street Captains.. Most of at pilots would agree with that. We have hired a bunch of lower time people over the last 2 years. We have also hired a bunch of people at, near or over the min's for upgrade recently.

Lear70 called it correctly that we would be in the mid 700's by christmas for upgrade.. We still have about 200 more pilots before the well runs completely dry and they need to hit the street for guys.

All I know.. IF we did go back to the street.. It would be 5 years or better before a street Captain would see a line.. The last group went 3 years and they had about 200 pilots to go in front of them.. This time it would be about 500 pilots.. That is a long time to be crew scheduling's beotch and working on no better than 10 days off and living in the crew room...

 

[John_W_Thompson]

Interested in Pinnacle

Hi folks,

I have been banging my head in the regionals.​

​

​

2 yrs of RSV at Eagle, massive downgrades, AA taking lefts seats, furlough imminent, upgrade time infinite --> I quit. 2 years of RSV at ACA, furlough imminent. Wife and child. I am not young.

I have 3500 tt and 1100 in type and I would like to get hired at Pinnacle and upgrade.

Q. I understand KMEM is very senior and KDTW jr and that's where someone like me would expect to stay for a long time?
Q. Considering known aircraft acquisitions, and current staffing trends, is it reasonable that I might get an upgrade award after IOE?
Q. I have heard they're cancelling flights due to Capt shortage - any truth? This seems to conflict with a report of flying only 30-40 hrs on reserve mentioned elsewhere.
Q. Someone mentioned "Few of my friends are now in the alternate upgrade list" what is the alternate upgrade list?
Q. Can I be displaced out of the left seat for some reason other than fleet reduction?
Q. What mainline related concerns are there? I have heard there's a possibility of PCL stopping growth at 129 if the mainline starts getting 70's (but I have heard mainline doesn't want to pay them to fly it).
Q. How about Mesaba competition?
Q. In other words - based on known facts - what are my chances of getting (and keeping) a quick upgrade?
Q. Can a Pinnacle pilot sit in the actual jumpseat of a Mesaba plane? (I live in BGR) Would a NWA pilot have the JS before me in a Mesaba plane?

Thank you all for your patience and input.


BTW I am also looking for an old acquaintance over there. We went to CFI ground together at Comair Academy in '99. I only know his first name (would remember last name if I heard it), and I believe he was hired in 2000. If you're able to help email me [email protected]
T H A N K Y O U ! ! !

john

 

[Lear70]

Q. I understand KMEM is very senior and KDTW jr and that's where someone like me would expect to stay for a long time?

New hires are getting placed in all three domiciles. Movement up the seniority list is faster in MSP and DTW, about equally so.

Q. Considering known aircraft acquisitions, and current staffing trends, is it reasonable that I might get an upgrade award after IOE?

No. Upgrades are still right at one year and will go somewhat shorter (probably six months) but that's about it. In January or February expect to see it go a little more senior for all the guys who wanted one more year with their holidays off but don't want to miss the last of the upgrades by Spring.

Q. I have heard they're cancelling flights due to Capt shortage - any truth? This seems to conflict with a report of flying only 30-40 hrs on reserve mentioned elsewhere.

Scheduling can't "schedule" to save their life, and will sometimes cancel a low-booked flight and save their reserve for something else later in the day, even if that "something else" never appears. That said, staffing has improved, Junior Assignments and Extensions have dwindled remarkably, and things seem to be OK for now. However, dozens will time out in November and December that I don't think the company is staffed for and things will be ugly again, then in Jan the sick calls will go back up for two months, then March and April will be dead for reserves again. Been that way cyclical for three years now.

Q. Someone mentioned "Few of my friends are now in the alternate upgrade list" what is the alternate upgrade list?

If someone put their standing preference bid in for upgrade then has some family reason (pregnant wife, planned wedding or vacation) that will interfere with their upgrade and they show up on the Primary list, they can opt out and then a Secondary takes their place. On the next vacancy if they can still hold upgrade, great. If not, too bad. It's a risk, but in our current upgrade environment, not a huge one.

Q. Can I be displaced out of the left seat for some reason other than fleet reduction?

Furlough, reduction of staffing, or you really screw the pooch and bend an aircraft.

Q. What mainline related concerns are there? I have heard there's a possibility of PCL stopping growth at 129 if the mainline starts getting 70's (but I have heard mainline doesn't want to pay them to fly it).

NWA 70 isn't going to happen for a long, long time (if ever). Pinnacle will probably NOT be awarded any more aircraft until our contract negotiations are done. H*ll, they can even yank us down to 79 aircraft if negotiations get so contentious we go on strike, but that's 2 - 3 years down the road. Bottom line is probably no more aircraft until negotiations are complete - it's the carrot they always dangle - growth for wage or work rule concessions.

Q. How about Mesaba competition?

Doesn't work like that. We don't directly compete on anything except cost per flight paid by Northwest. It's more like a whipsaw effect, they give aircraft to one group just to incite the other group to sign concessionary deals, then reverse the process years later.

Q. In other words - based on known facts - what are my chances of getting (and keeping) a quick upgrade?

70/30 against anyone hired NOW seeing upgrade any time in the next 3-5 years. The company seems to have seen the error of their ways and has been hiring a lot of higher-time guys to mix in with the low-time guys to avoid this problem. Will probably go VERY junior in March and April (less than 6 month's seniority) then once we project upgrade classes for A/C #129 upgrades will come to a screeching halt.

Q. Can a Pinnacle pilot sit in the actual jumpseat of a Mesaba plane? (I live in BGR) Would a NWA pilot have the JS before me in a Mesaba plane?

PCL can sit in the actual jumpseat of MSA and NWA aircraft and vice-versa. Depends on the gate agent - some of them don't realize that on Mesaba both us and Mainline guys are considered "off-line" and vice-versa and will go strictly on date-of-hire when they SHOULD be going on who got to the gate first, or sometimes the stations are run by NW Mainline employees and will give the jumpseat to the Mainline guy first, EVEN ON YOUR OWN AIRLINE. It's up to the Captain to know the difference and make sure your own people get on. This issue has caused a lot of friction.

Bottom line, there's high risk in jumping ship over there to come here right now for a not very high likelihood of quick upgrade, but that's just my opinion.

 

[John_W_Thompson]

Pinnacle

THANKYOU!!

A few more if you have the patience...

Do I have any control as a new hire where I'd be based (prefer MEM). I wouldn't mind being on reserve indefinately in MEM at all. How much could I fly? I want to fly a lot.

I don't care about seniority. I would be tickled pink to be a RSV Capt in MEM though. Any way to try to do that?

"70/30 against anyone hired NOW seeing upgrade any time in the next 3-5 years. Will probably go VERY junior in March and April (less than 6 month's seniority)"

I think I can make this Mar -Apr window - am I missing something?

Thank you very much.

 

[Lear70]

Unless you have already been hired and given a class date, you won't make the 6 month window. Right now interviewees are projected out about 60-90 days for a class date once they receive the "congrats" phone call / letter from what I understand. Based on that, if you applied now, got an interview next month, got a phone call 7-10 days later (optimistically) then class 60 days later that would put you finished with OE and holding a line about 5 or 6 months from right now. And that's a big IF you can get an interview - usually takes several LOR's these days.

Getting a MEM line? Pretty easy as a new-hire. The guy I'm flying with this month in MSP goes to MEM next month - this is his second month online - 3rd month will be MEM.

Getting a MEM award as a CA? I've been here three years and I can barely hold MEM if I wanted to (I don't) and that would be two or three from the bottom of the reserve CA list. MEM CA takes about 2 to 3 year's seniority right now - don't see that changing much.

Best amount of flying? Highest time lines are DTW, MSP, then MEM in that order. 85 hour average in DTW, 80 Hour average MSP, 75 hour average MEM. Best quality of flying? If you want to be home every night, MEM. If you want commutable multi-day trips, DTW. If you want to live in MSP and don't need to commut but want multi-day trips, MSP.

Hope that helps... Good luck!

 

[dondk]

THANKYOU!!

A few more if you have the patience...

Do I have any control as a new hire where I'd be based (prefer MEM). I wouldn't mind being on reserve indefinately in MEM at all. How much could I fly? I want to fly a lot.

Base's.. it all depends on the vacancy.. most people can get to the base of choice within 3 months these days.. most in a month if not on the intial bid.
It varies based on open time, the quality of the open time and how much line holders take. You can count on the "left overs" which usually are low time trips

I don't care about seniority. I would be tickled pink to be a RSV Capt in MEM though. Any way to try to do that?

My guess is that MEM is going to stay senior for a long time.. Even if they suddenly came up with 30 vacancies.. the more senior (MEM) guys in DTW and MSP will move back south to hold a line equal to or better than they hold now. Remember.. for many years this company operated out of MEM only.. lot's of roots to the southern area's in this company.

"70/30 against anyone hired NOW seeing upgrade any time in the next 3-5 years. Will probably go VERY junior in March and April (less than 6 month's seniority)"

I think I can make this Mar -Apr window - am I missing something?

not actually "missing something" but it is a true "unknown".. There are plenty of guys who have the time but waiting for the vacation bid (november). They can come in and "steal" the upgrade slots since they already have the seniority to hold it. I agree with Lear70 that it will go junior then right back up senior. You "may" get lucky if you have 500 hours in type to slide into an earlier class, but if you don't have 500 in type then you are in the race to get that time. If reserve goes long again (and it should), 500 hours could take you at least a year on reserve (depending on base and need)

Thank you very much.