ATP checkride during initial training

[Mike man]

I heard Spirit gives all of their pilots a PIC type in initial training.

Spirit does type and/or ATP all new hires in the A320. Most of the countries we currently fly to and one planned require both pilots to be typed in the airplane...I think it may be an ICAO requirement.

 

[rausda27]

I was typed under Part 61 at FlightSafety and we had to do a SE missed approach.​

From the PTS...​

F. TASK: MISSED APPROACH
REFERENCES: 14 CFR part 61; POH; AFM; AIM; Standard
Instrument Approach Procedure Charts (SIAP); FAA-H-8083-15,
FAA-H-8261-1.​

NOTE:

The applicant must perform two missed approaches with one being from a precision approach (ILS, MLS, or GLS). One complete published missed approach must be accomplished.

Additionally, in multiengine airplanes, a missed approach must be accomplished with one engine inoperative (or simulated inoperative).

The engine failure may be experienced anytime prior to the initiation of the approach, during the approach, or during the transition to the missed approach attitude and configuration.​

​

 

[WMUSIGPI]

Spirit does type and/or ATP all new hires in the A320. Most of the countries we currently fly to and one planned require both pilots to be typed in the airplane...I think it may be an ICAO requirement.

Congrats on Spirit AB. What's the secret... I've been trying to get there for a year now, no luck. PM me the secret will ya.
Anyway the both pilots typed deal is why we now have that silly SIC only type for all the FO's

 

[CHQ Pilot]

I've had to do a single engine missed approach and landing on every type ride, every FO PC, ATP, and each Captain PC I did. Although I don't think it is a requirement, but the engine failure always came in the form of a V1 cut. I've never heard of anyone not doing a SE approach (even on FO PCs) unless it was some type of AQP program, but there can always be some exemptions. That's scary if they are not testing them on type rides or PCs.

 

[flyguy81]

did the v1 cut and a engine failure after gear up on a 2 engine ILS missed ...don't really consider that a single engine go-around as both were working when the thrust levers were advanced atthe time of the go around. call it what you want, but i'd only consider it a SE go around if you were only on 1 engine to begin with.

 

[FL990]

Just to clarify...

I am NOT saying that we don't do v1 cuts or SE ILS approaches for our type rides and PC's...we do and the SE ILS has to be hand flown. I am just saying that I have never, on any type ride which I have completed, done a SE missed approach. I DO see the PTS and see it clearly and you are all correct in that it does state it as a requirement. HOWEVER, when you go through a 121 or 142 approved training course, the checks are tailored to that course and some of the items may be exempt..(ie. we only do one stall and do not do all three profiles..etc). This is my only explanation for why we don't do them. If there are any ASA instructors/APD's on this board, feel free to chime in.

 

[John Pennekamp]

I have 2 type ratings and my ATP; one was done at ASA and one was not. Granted, I have not looked at the PTS but I can assure you that I did not do a SE missed approach on either ride.

I will look at the PTS and follow up.

I'm confused. I fly for ASA and had to do a SE missed on my type ride. So has everyone I know. It's required. If you didn't do one, I wouldn't brag about it.

 

[FL990]

I'm confused. I fly for ASA and had to do a SE missed on my type ride. So has everyone I know. It's required. If you didn't do one, I wouldn't brag about it.

I am not bragging about anything. In my upgrade class, no one else had to do one either...and when we were going through training, we did one, but the instructor said that we wouldn't have to do it on the type ride unless we put ourselves in that situation (ie. messed up the SE ILS) which I didn't. Also, I have never done one on a pro check...The ONLY time I have ever been required to do a SE missed approach is during training.

And everyone I know didn't have to do one either, so I don't know...that is all I am saying...

I am still waiting for an IP to step in and explain

 

[John Pennekamp]

I am not bragging about anything. In my upgrade class, no one else had to do one either...and when we were going through training, we did one, but the instructor said that we wouldn't have to do it on the type ride unless we put ourselves in that situation (ie. messed up the SE ILS) which I didn't. Also, I have never done one on a pro check...The ONLY time I have ever been required to do a SE missed approach is during training.

And everyone I know didn't have to do one either, so I don't know...that is all I am saying...

I am still waiting for an IP to step in and explain

Aw shucks, you're right, I must have screwed up my type ride. Because when I did the single engine approach, and and the FO called approach lights in sight at 200-1/2, suddenly, the visibility in the sim dropped to zero and we had to go around.

 

[LittleDeuce]

ATP/Type Rating

Aw shucks, you're right, I must have screwed up my type ride. Because when I did the single engine approach, and and the FO called approach lights in sight at 200-1/2, suddenly, the visibility in the sim dropped to zero and we had to go around.

Gentleman;

I say again. You are required to demonstrate two missed approaches on an ATP/Type Rating ride per FAR 121 Appendix E & F and the Practal Test Standards. One must be single engine.

The issues you are facing are ones of standardization. Just because the Check Airman did not give a single engine go-around does not mean you are not required to demonstrate one.

Unless you are training under AQP, you are required to do it period!

 

[stratman560]

I know we have already established the fact that you must do a SE Go-around and not to add more fire to the FLAME here but I can distinctly remember getting the SE ILS AND Go-Around at Simuflite on a type ride on the Citation. I remember knowing it was coming because they fail the right engine so that you still have your TOGA on the left lever for the go-around to reset your command bars. I guess the moral of the story here is that examiners/check airmen make mistakes and sometimes you get off easy.

 

[SizzleChest]

Just to clarify...

I am NOT saying that we don't do v1 cuts or SE ILS approaches for our type rides and PC's...we do and the SE ILS has to be hand flown. I am just saying that I have never, on any type ride which I have completed, done a SE missed approach. I DO see the PTS and see it clearly and you are all correct in that it does state it as a requirement. HOWEVER, when you go through a 121 or 142 approved training course, the checks are tailored to that course and some of the items may be exempt..(ie. we only do one stall and do not do all three profiles..etc). This is my only explanation for why we don't do them. If there are any ASA instructors/APD's on this board, feel free to chime in.

3 stall configurations exist in your training manual. 2 stalls can be waived at the discretion of the IP. The remaining stall must be done in a turn.