Ati hiring

[Meat n the Seat]

[The Teamsters have done a MUCH better job of protecting their members interests, and careers, than ALPA.]

The Teamsters got the deal they got because they had the 767s and the leverage that came with it. Period. ASTAR got squat because their management had nothing of value to offer. This has nothing to do withpilot unity as you suggest. The fact that an ALPA pilot group is now being told to hire Teamsters onto an ALPA "closed shop" seniority list is just another example of the wonderful advantages ALPA members enjoy. This is another ALPA first!!! Something to be proud of. Something to point to when trying to win over other pilot groups. YGTBFSM! Again Dan, what problems or potentail pitfalls come to your mind regarding this situation?

 

[Whistlin' Dan]

The Teamsters got the deal they got because they had the 767s and the leverage that came with it. Period.

The Teamsters have 767's? Wow, I have been out of the loop for a long time!

ASTAR got squat because their management had nothing of value to offer.

Astar got squat because they're not part of the ATSG "octopus" and because for whatever reasons, DHL has apparently chosen to grow the ATSG side of the business.

This has nothing to do withpilot unity as you suggest.

Ask FedEx how important unity is...every one of their guys are still on the property. Ask UPS how important it is...several hundred are about to hit the street, but they will be fewer in number and the furlough will come a year later than it would have, had their leadership not stood firm in trying to protect jobs. More importantly, those furloughed will all have jobs to return to in a year or 2.

Don't ask an Astar guy. No, seriously...just don't. They wouldn't know anyway.

The fact that an ALPA pilot group is now being told to hire Teamsters onto an ALPA "closed shop" seniority list is just another example of the wonderful advantages ALPA members enjoy. This is another ALPA first!!! Something to be proud of. Something to point to when trying to win over other pilot groups.

ALPA doesn't hire pilots. Managers hire pilots. Other than whatever weight personal recommendations carry at ATI, I seriously doubt the average pilot has much input into who gets called, and who makes the cut. In any case, I believe those hired will be required to become ALPA members after they're hired. At that point, they're ALPA. What does it matter to which union they used to belong?

Again Dan, what problems or potentail pitfalls come to your mind regarding this situation?

I don't know that much about the ATSG operation, mostly what I read here and what I pick up from a few "buds." But the big thing I would be concerned about is the fact that they have several companies practicing one craft, represented by two unions but operating under one corporate umbrella. From an organizational standpoint, it would seem to be a real "Who's on first?" situation. That's why I'm glad they got this agreement...it's not "THE" answer, but it's a step in the right direction.

M-n-t-S - You haven't said what company you work(ed) for, and I'm not asking. But I'm curious...if it was an ALPA carrier, did you have a provision in your contract that mandated preferential hiring for other out-of-work ALPA pilots? Was it a flow-through/flow-back arrangement, or did it apply to ALPA pilots from non-affiliated carriers as well?

 

[nitefr8dog]

Meat are you really that naive or just an idiot?

"The fact that an ALPA pilot group is now being told to hire Teamsters onto an ALPA "closed shop" seniority list is just another example of the wonderful advantages ALPA members enjoy".

The ALPA pilot group at ATI has nothing to say about who gets hired! Management not the pilots due the hiring.

The former ABX pilots are NO LONGER TEAMSTERS, they are out of work pilots. Many are former ALPA members on their 3rd or 4th airline.

You need to get a hobby that does not require a lot of thinking you are not very good at this.

 

[Meat n the Seat]

[Meat are you really that naive or just an idiot?]
Funny post. I bet you wouldn't laugh if we were face to face.

You must be ABX. The ABX non-concessionary contract you signed mandated your crewmembers be hired onto an ALPA seniority list. In exchange for the pay cuts you took, you got to populate an ALPA seniority list. The ATI guys need to be cognasant of your parasitic presence.

"The fact that an ALPA pilot group is now being told to hire Teamsters onto an ALPA "closed shop" seniority list is just another example of the wonderful advantages ALPA members enjoy".

[The ALPA pilot group at ATI has nothing to say about who gets hired! Management not the pilots due the hiring.]

Lock your flight bag!
ALPA has a closed shop at ATI. If you were a member of their seniority list, how would you feel about a member of a pilot group who was openly hostile towards that group, being placed on their seniority list at higher wage and longevity level than an establishied ATI member?

The former ABX pilots are NO LONGER TEAMSTERS, they are out of work pilots. Many are former ALPA members on their 3rd or 4th airline.

[You need to get a hobby that does not require a lot of thinking you are not very good at this]

Don't cry when your deal sours holmes.

 

[Meat n the Seat]

[Meat are you really that naive or just an idiot?]

[You need to get a hobby that does not require a lot of thinking you are not very good at this.]

You gave the Huns a concessionary contract. You had the leverage with the 767s. Yet you caved and lowered the bar-for everyone. It is you whose selfishness, ignorance and lack of fortitude caused pilots across the board to take yet another step backwards.

Thanks a lot

 

[nitefr8dog]

[Meat are you really that naive or just an idiot?]

[You need to get a hobby that does not require a lot of thinking you are not very good at this.]

You gave the Huns a concessionary contract. You had the leverage with the 767s. Yet you caved and lowered the bar-for everyone. It is you whose selfishness, ignorance and lack of fortitude caused pilots across the board to take yet another step backwards.

Thanks a lot

Again no idea what you are talking about. CAM Leasing has access to all the aircraft and they are all leased out thru CAM back to ABX, Amerijet, etc. Hete moves the airplanes to the sister companies (who all can operate 757-767s per their certificate) and we sit on the sidelines watching the airline shrink. Hard to fight a battle without any membership or dues coming in. This is real simple you guys like to place the blame on ABX, bottom line you where flying a bunch of old expensive junk and John D. cut a deal to get rid of a lawsuit. Talk about a union letting you down! Teamsters realized an adjustment to the current market conditions was going to have to happen....did anybody like it NO! Is a it a whole lot better than the alternative YES. If you own a hardware store you cannot buy a hammer for 10$ and sell it for 5$ and stay in business for long! This is more than DHL. ABX is looking for business all over the world (with two new customers added last week that will require more recalls) and needed to be competitive! What is your company doing to recall pilots? Dhl is a small part of the big picture.

 

[Mach88]

Nite,
Usually you seem straight up but I have to throw the BS flag on this one; "bottom line you where flying a bunch of old expensive junk and John D. cut a deal to get rid of a lawsuit. Talk about a union letting you down!"

The expensive junk part is true and that is/was the Astar pilots' problem. The lawsuit was with DHL not john D. If you read the lawsuit and know the facts, it is obvious ALPA got a decent enough deal. Lawyers outside alpa looked at it and everyone agreed without the UPS deal it was weak.

And Dan ABX nor Astar could do much to minimize furloughs with the amount of flying lost. Sure FedEx and UPS pilots can save a few hundred jobs. But thats because they have thousands of pilots sacraficing a little to save a few.

 

[nitefr8dog]

Nite,
Usually you seem straight up but I have to throw the BS flag on this one; "bottom line you where flying a bunch of old expensive junk and John D. cut a deal to get rid of a lawsuit. Talk about a union letting you down!"

The expensive junk part is true and that is/was the Astar pilots' problem. The lawsuit was with DHL not john D. If you read the lawsuit and know the facts, it is obvious ALPA got a decent enough deal. Lawyers outside alpa looked at it and everyone agreed without the UPS deal it was weak.

And Dan ABX nor Astar could do much to minimize furloughs with the amount of flying lost. Sure FedEx and UPS pilots can save a few hundred jobs. But that's because they have thousands of pilots sacrificing a little to save a few.

Mach88, Meat is the one who brought up the fact ABX had more pilots on forlough than Astar or other DHL carriers ( I guess the fact we started with almost 2 times as many pilot as Astar was a hard concept to figure out) ABX/1224 had their hands tied after DHL bought Airborne Express. The deal was structured to include the aircraft so as DHL closed cities ABX lost flying. Unfortunately they did not release aircraft at the same rate so ABX could find work outside DHL. Hence the need to restructure the whole company including new pay rates. Going from 110 aircraft producing revenue to 22 to 25 with a huge debt load and staying in business...... yet alone making money took some creativity. The good news is ABX is finding additional work other than DHL which pays more...and we are recalling pilots.

 

[nitefr8dog]

Nite,
Usually you seem straight up but I have to throw the BS flag on this one; "bottom line you where flying a bunch of old expensive junk and John D. cut a deal to get rid of a lawsuit. Talk about a union letting you down!"

The expensive junk part is true and that is/was the Astar pilots' problem. The lawsuit was with DHL not john D. If you read the lawsuit and know the facts, it is obvious ALPA got a decent enough deal. Lawyers outside alpa looked at it and everyone agreed without the UPS deal it was weak.

And Dan ABX nor Astar could do much to minimize furloughs with the amount of flying lost. Sure FedEx and UPS pilots can save a few hundred jobs. But thats because they have thousands of pilots sacraficing a little to save a few.

The new contact was with John D. which also included dropping the lawsuit from what the rumor mill said. FWIW

 

[Mach88]

Nite,
I know the history of the DHL debacle and how it affected Airborne and Astar companies and pilots. Hete actually tries to get some business outside DHL, while Astar doesnt. I think this is because ABX (ATSG) is a publicly traded money and has share holder money and partly becuase ABX has a fleet of 767s that is marketable. Since 1224 was already in negotiations and Hete/DHL was holding the severerance money hostage for a contract, 1224 did as well as they could for the group. ALPA probably would have signed the same deal. And as for Astar's flleet of old junk and a CEO/owner that wont risk his own money to seek ouside business, and the pilots already have a contract, ALPA cant do anything with that. As for the contract with John D, ALPA signed it in 3/08, weeks before the UPS deal. ALPA gave up 10 year old scope litigation that really were just desperate appeals. Many lawyers and anyone with any common sense could see that no judge was going to make DHL give airplanes to Astar to fly. So the litigation was given up for a contract with a 20% pay raises over 4 years (DHL planned to shut Astar down before we got all the raises) and retro. Dropping the litigation for the contract was the right call and dropping the lawsuit for the severance was the right call too. ALPA did the best a union can do. Teamsters would have done the same thing.

While some guys on this board just want to flame, Id like to think some of us can have a discussion based on facts. And to me the facts are that DPWN ruined Airborne and DHL Airways and Teamsters and ALPA did the best they could with what they had. Imagine if ABX and Astar were non union carriers. They would have furloughed out of seniority, cut the pay in half, and nobody would get any severance.