ATI and ABX Merging

[b707guy]

No.

ABX Air had been in negotiations with Qantas since early 2007. Sewell cut the deal to take it.

You can call it what ever you like. That's the way the ABX guys and gals see it.

I would sure love to see this 'deal' that a union rep can have any effect whatsoever upon, regarding an operations contract. IBT 747 only had their fingers around our wallets, not our Sales or our Ops. And Hete's ability to determine who flies the available contracts is limited to who he lets open the door among his underlings. In other words, Hete can "let" one of or both ATI and ABX make offers for a contract, but he sure as hell can't make Qantas choose ABX over ATI or vice versa. For whatever reason, Qantas chose ATI. Maybe the negotiator we sent was smokin' hot for all I know. Maybe Hete took some action to sweeten the pot to steer Qantas towards ATI. Regardless, ATI didn't "take" any ABX flying.

Sewell 'cut a deal'? Preposterous.

 

[laserman2431]

B707. I agree with you that unions do not make the operational decisions regarding issues such as what work to bid on and what conditions to offer. However, unions can have an impact on those decisions based upon the wages that they negotiate.

Looking at it from the company point of view, a company with high operating costs will be less desirable than one with low costs. Assuming that all other things are equal.

So, how do higher cost companies stay in business? They offer something different from the competition or find a niche. When we go to the car rental place at the airport, there are usually 4 to 8 companies there renting cars. One will have the lowest price on a category of car at a given time. So, how do the other companies stay in business. Shouldn't all customers select the lowest priced company?

FastHap is incorrect in stating that ATI stole business from ABX. He is playing the age old blame game. From the pilot point of view, there are advantages to having a high wage structure and there are advantages to having a low wage structure.

FastHap has a very myopic view of the world which is shared by many pilots. The argument goes "the pilots at company X work for less pay than what I get. Company X got a contract that my company didn't get. The pilots at company X undercut me and stole my work." If it were that simple, wouldn't all pilots work for the same wage? Because only the low pay companies would get the contracts and all others would have to match prices or disappear.

I think it is probably a good thing that pilot groups are not in the business of making operational decisions. Can you imagine what that would be like?

 

[FastHap]

So, how do higher cost companies stay in business? They offer something different from the competition or find a niche. When we go to the car rental place at the airport, there are usually 4 to 8 companies there renting cars. One will have the lowest price on a category of car at a given time. So, how do the other companies stay in business. Shouldn't all customers select the lowest priced company?

There is a major problem with your example. To use your analogy, in this situation CAM (Cargo Aircraft Management) owns all the cars (ie airplanes).

Now I have to go make an optometrist appointment, because according to you, I have a vision problem.

 

[FastHap]

Sewell 'cut a deal'? Preposterous.

I'm sure the investigators and prosecutors will be happy to hear that.

http://www.tdu.org/node/2989

For the record, I feel I should correct myself on the spelling: E.E. "Gene" Sowell.

 

[b707guy]

All that article proves is that we had a misspelling of Sowell's name in common.

 

[nitefr8dog]

Pass the Kool Aid!!

Ok. Like leading sheep to slaughter!

 

[HeavyjetDC8]

From FastHap's link.....

*April 21, 2009.International Brotherhood of Teamsters President James P. Hoffa April 15 imposed an emergency takeover of Teamsters Local 747, citing the Houston-based local's “failure to perform its duties” as bargaining agent for some 4,000 pilots at a dozen small passenger and cargo airlines.*

Then Jimmy P. Hoffa also needs to takeover local 1224 because what the working ABX majority wanted isn't what they've been stuck with. A survey to determine the memberships' scheduling requirements after a new CBA is ratified doesn't really cut it. Traditionally, the membership is consulted as to their wishes prior to ratification - but the ABX 1224 junta would appear to have this particular logistic backward. At best, utter incompetence; at worst, willful deceit with an associated charge of “failure to perform its duties” as bargaining agent for its working members. See ref to local 747 above, it's applicable to 1224. So where's Jimmy when you need him?

No.

ABX Air had been in negotiations with Qantas since early 2007. Sewell cut the deal to take it.

You can call it what ever you like. That's the way the ABX guys and gals see it.

No, you're wrong. The guys (no gals left) at ABX don't see it this way at all. Only you SpeedyHap, only you. Lions and Tigers and Bears, Oh My! Plans within plans, always a conspiracy that can't quite be defined taking place somewhere just over the horizon. You're an army of one SpeedyHap, albeit an army of one (as in exclusively yourself) that's bent over grabbing ankles whilst stoically holding a fixed grin. "Please sir, may I have another?" Never mind the optometrist's visit, best schedule with a chiropractor to find the missing backbone.

 

[nitefr8dog]

From FastHap's link.....

*April 21, 2009.International Brotherhood of Teamsters President James P. Hoffa April 15 imposed an emergency takeover of Teamsters Local 747, citing the Houston-based local's “failure to perform its duties” as bargaining agent for some 4,000 pilots at a dozen small passenger and cargo airlines.*

Then Jimmy P. Hoffa also needs to takeover local 1224 because what the working ABX majority wanted isn't what they've been stuck with. A survey to determine the memberships' scheduling requirements after a new CBA is ratified doesn't really cut it. Traditionally, the membership is consulted as to their wishes prior to ratification - but the ABX 1224 junta would appear to have this particular logistic backward. At best, utter incompetence; at worst, willful deceit with an associated charge of “failure to perform its duties” as bargaining agent for its working members. See ref to local 747 above, it's applicable to 1224. So where's Jimmy when you need him?




No, you're wrong. The guys (no gals left) at ABX don't see it this way at all. Only you SpeedyHap, only you. Lions and Tigers and Bears, Oh My! Plans within plans, always a conspiracy that can't quite be defined taking place somewhere just over the horizon. You're an army of one SpeedyHap, albeit an army of one (as in exclusively yourself) that's bent over grabbing ankles whilst stoically holding a fixed grin. "Please sir, may I have another?" Never mind the optometrist's visit, best schedule with a chiropractor to find the missing backbone.

Actually, we have two gals left!

 

[HeavyjetDC8]

You're correct nitefr8dog. I'm wrong. With head held low in mortified embarrassment I retract my 'no gals' statement.

 

[DC8CRIVER]

Actually, we have two gals left!

Well ... One gal and Trixie.