ATA ratifies TA

[Green]

It's always easier to blame Alpa national than your fellow pilots/MEC....

 

[datafox]

When HAL pilots were under the threat of an 1113c motion during Hawaiian's bankruptcy, ALPA national left it entirely up to the HAL pilots to either accept the TA or reject it and go to court. We rejected the first TA and ALPA national spent a lot of time and money preparing for the trial. It was only a much improved revised TA that was agreed to by both sides on the court house steps minutes from the trial starting that stopped the preceedings. HAL pilots/HAL ALPA recieved nothing but outstanding support for their desires/decisions from ALPA national. ALPA national's position was whatever HAL ALPA wanted it to be.

I hate to say it, but I think HAL pilots are a different breed than ATA. Not trying to burn any bridges here but I think ATA's concessionary history speaks for itself. Four voluntairy concessions in 13 months. If I only knew back then what I know about ATA now.

 

[Jim]

I hate to say it, but I think HAL pilots are a different breed than ATA. Not trying to burn any bridges here but I think ATA's concessionary history speaks for itself. Four voluntairy concessions in 13 months. If I only knew back then what I know about ATA now.

That's my point. It's not ALPA national that accepted the concessions, it was the ATA pilots. ALPA national provides resources and advise. It is up to the individual pilot groups to decide their own path. If the pilot group rejects ALPA national's advise, they will still get supported.

 

[HalinTexas]

Hold on one damn minute.

Let's get the facts straight.

Concession 1: Summer of 2004, prebankruptcy. It was a pay freeze at July 2003 rates, instead of teh 9% increase we were due. I believe some retirement contributions were reduced. Really crappy 100-seat jet pay, but not as bad as JetBlue's.

Bankruptcy hit in October. Company was already working the deal with Airtran in August, but told everyone BK was not an option.

Concession 2: January 2005. 10% paycut. TA rejected. Leadership was out, and in came John Dennison.

Concession 3: Feb. 2005. 18% paycut off of 2003 rates, plus other cuts in PD and retirement. Big package of stuff, but he company had cash to last until the end of March.

Concession 4: In response to 1113(e) filing, we cut some kind of deal. Basically resetting the drop dead dates of concession 1 to Sept. 30. And we didn't have to wear hats anymore.

Concession 5: This week. Continues the same crap wages for a couple of more years. No contribution to CMP plan (retirement) for a year, reduced contribution to 401(k). It basically sucks, but our ALPA-National supplied bankruptcy lawyer advised to go with a known TA vs. the 1113(c) filing of August this year. It was worse, a lot worse, 5 years vs. 3 in the TA. Work rules obliterated, pay was even worse. Our legal advice was that any appeals to an "imposed" contract via the 1113(c) filing could take years.

Didn't stop me from voting no.

If there were no bankrupty or concession(s), I'd be making $165/hr as a B737 CA. Now, I'm at $72/hr as an FO. Won't see 2003 wages until after the 2008 amendability date.

I'm disappointed, disheartened, depressed, but I'll get over it. Looking outside the industry, because all this BS ain't over yet.

 

[Pilotbob3]

when is enough enough for those YES men at ATA? awful.....it would be laughable if it wasn't so sad that those guys keep voting yes....sheesh

 

[TriStar_drvr]

when is enough enough for those YES men at ATA? awful.....it would be laughable if it wasn't so sad that those guys keep voting yes....sheesh

Evidently, never. I'm in Japan for the fourth time this month. I'm tired of hearing how lucky I am having this job.

Part of the 41% who have had enough...

 

[ATA73Pilot]

Predictable...

The majority of the "100K+ Club" voted to protect what they had.

Fear of the unkown provided the the rest of the YES votes needed.

The company now has the ablity to come back with another 1113(c) filing in the future and repeat the process all over again.

This pilot group continues to support a management that governs through fear and misrespresentation.

I keep wondering how low it must get here before the pilots say "Enough is Enough!"

Apparently we haven't reached that point yet....although it is funny to hear the Yes Voters say "That was It..No More" (at least until the next time).

Sad.

 

[Pickle]

Predictable...
The majority of the "100K+ Club" voted to protect what they had.
Fear of the unkown provided the the rest of the YES votes needed.
The company now has the ablity to come back with another 1113(c) filing in the future and repeat the process all over again.
This pilot group continues to support a management that governs through fear and misrespresentation.
I keep wondering how low it must get here before the pilots say "Enough is Enough!"
Apparently we haven't reached that point yet....although it is funny to hear the Yes Voters say "That was It..No More" (at least until the next time).
Sad.

Yes, and let us not forget the newly minted members of the 100K club (FE/FOs, I mean FE/CAs, err, I mean can we even mention the term "Engineer" with these guys?) and their compatriots who are chomping at the bit to occupy my and 165 or so other displaced captains seats.

Just a few engineers my aching backside.

Thanks Erik!!!! Enjoy that condo in Hawaii.

 

[ATA73Pilot]

Yes, and let us not forget the newly minted members of the 100K club (FE/FOs, I mean FE/CAs, err, I mean can we even mention the term "Engineer" with these guys?) and their compatriots who are chomping at the bit to occupy my and 165 or so other displaced captains seats.

Just a few engineers my aching backside.

Thanks Erik!!!! Enjoy that condo in Hawaii.

Yeah...nothing like your own Union supporting Captain Upgrades while the company is in the process of displacing current Captains to FO's.

This place is so FU'd! They have even started calling pilots who have called out sick to see if they are really sick. Nothing like pilot pushing and intimidation!

The pilots repeated inability to stop the encroachents on their basic rights has sent a message loud and clear to Mahogany Row.

Anything Goes!

Let the games begin...err....continue I mean.

 

[Erndogg]

That's my point. It's not ALPA national that accepted the concessions, it was the ATA pilots. ALPA national provides resources and advise. It is up to the individual pilot groups to decide their own path. If the pilot group rejects ALPA national's advise, they will still get supported.

I think you have to look at the individual BK cases to form an opinion on both groups. In Hal's BK case-ALPA had a strong arguement with the profit string Hawaiian had rolled off during the 2 years it was in BK.
I dont think ATA (ALPA) was in the same boat. The company was cash poor with astronomical leases on new A/c. IMO I dont think they had levarage (if there is any) in thier 1113c motion.
Can any ATA guys chime in?