ATA - Any News?

[Angus]

couldn't "hack" it because I refused to be a scab

Wow how noble of you. That makes you one out of a million.

The fact that you associate a negative "not being able to hack it" because I chose not to scab at my airline, substantiates my point about hookers, whores and backstabbers in this industry. Based on your post..... apparently you fall (or would fall) into that catagory.

What was your BS post about personal attacks?

That is why I never returned to Part 121 flying, and have never looked back.

And a quitter too.

I see that you'd rather be labelled a "scab" than labelled a "quitter".... how precious and "NOBLE" of you as well.... Then again I guess there are a few of your types at all airlines... including ATA.

Once again I must point out that it is YOU and YOUR scab or scab lover attitude that makes the 121 profession a P.O.S. industry. Judging by the stance you've decided to take here on these forums... at least we know that you'd scab (or have already scabbed) rather than be labelled a quitter...

What is readily apparent here is several issues:

1. You have yet to post my supposed comments where I "class the ATA Pilot group as a whole" that you attributed to me. How about it??

2. You have yet to defend my one and ONLY original point about the sudden "two faced" amnesia mentality of the flightinfo member ATA Pilots that were all up in arms about Airtran..... remember.... "Airtran Pilots were stealing their jobs"... remember that??

Oh thats right... I forgot.... you're not interested in debating facts on these forums. You're only interested in defending scabs because at least they weren't "quitters"...!!

Just keep on blowing that scablover defending mentality smokescreen.....

 

[Double Shot]

Angus,


Was it CAl, United, or Eastern? Or somewhere else...Just wondering.

 

[Angus]

Angus,


Was it CAl, United, or Eastern? Or somewhere else...Just wondering.

It was the second one.

BTW - To the Southwest Pilots on these forums... I have absolutely no problem with you all about this. I don't have a problem with the ATA Pilots either.

My point was.... (and for some reason these couple of "posers" that are arguing here can't grasp) is I remember (and can reference) reading the pages and pages of posts from some ATA Pilots on these foums bashing, and knocking and taking B.S. shots directly at Airtran and its Pilots for their attempt to take over MDW. They talked about "Airtran Pilots stealing their jobs".... "advancing their careers at the expense of the ATA Pilots"... "licking their chops to replace them"..." not giving them a Airtran seniority number"... blah... blah...blah.

Now that Southwest has taken over... and the end result is the EXACT SAME.... where is all the animosity toward all the resulting Southwest growth from these same flightinfo ATA Pilots?

I would just like to hear from these Clowns now. If you want to be all big and bad, and come here and post your sh!t.... then how about a little integrity.. or at least consistency?

Now I have these two flightinfo morons bashing me from walking away from a scab airline..... and I have to defend that?!?! Isn't ATA Alpa?? WTF!

 

[Ty Webb]

Anus,

I think your post says it all brother. You seem to lack some character. I don't think there was a thing said about one Airtran pilot when all this stuff was going down.

Then you must suffer from short-term memory loss. Plenty was said by your illustrious co-workers. Do a search. . . . there's enough there to keep you reading all night.

The fact is that Airtran (not the pilots) sent down a low level HR chick to collect resumes with a fake smile.

I don't know who "they" sent, but we don't have many "low-level" HR people. They all pretty much do the same job. What did you expect, an interview on the spot?

Maybe the person you perceived to be a "low-level chick" was a little more plugged in then you gave her credit for, and sounds like she sized you up pretty quickly.

 

[flyhard]

It was the second one

Walked away from Ual or asked to walk away? I smell BS. The fact is that I would not be old enough to be a scab anywhere....sorry. I also don't plan on ruining my career by being one in the near future. While we are on the scab topic. Why don't we compare Airtrans with ATA's names on seniority lists. I would think there would be far more scabs over there than at ATA. Heck lets compare it with even SWA and see how many are over there as well. I realize you are old and grumpy, but come on. By the way what constitutes a scab airline?

Ty,

Thanks for another great post.

 

[atafan]

That is why I never returned to Part 121 flying, and have never looked back.

Angus, Is that why you hang out on an Airline Interview Board?

You couldn't tell the truth if it bit you. Be honest, you scabbed Eastern and that's why you can't get a flying job.

 

[Angus]

Walked away from Ual or asked to walk away? I smell BS. The fact is that I would not be old enough to be a scab anywhere....sorry. I also don't plan on ruining my career by being one in the near future. While we are on the scab topic. Why don't we compare Airtrans with ATA's names on seniority lists. I would think there would be far more scabs over there than at ATA. Heck lets compare it with even SWA and see how many are over there as well. I realize you are old and grumpy, but come on. By the way what constitutes a scab airline?

An airline that employs scabs... is that too hard for you to understand?

Angus, Is that why you hang out on an Airline Interview Board? You couldn't tell the truth if it bit you. Be honest, you scabbed Eastern and that's why you can't get a flying job.

I hang out here because there isn't a "Bankrupt Low Cost Carrier" forum.


Talk about a Love Connection. We should hook you two up on a date. You both have alot of things to talk about and reconcile. One of you states that there are airlines out there filled with scabs... and the other talks about the inability to get a flying job by being a scab. I guess when you're a young inexperienced punk at a bankrupt carrier.... its more fun to re-write history, and just make things up about things you know nothing about.

You both certainly don't know anything about airline career choices... do you? You both also have the inability to squeeze out even the smallest amount of integrity and address the assinine posts from the ATA Pilots on these forums a few weeks ago during the ATA rescue mission attempt by Southwest and Airtran. Quite frankly I'm surprised Southwest was even interested in ATA... and Airtran... well they obviously hold no clout in the 121 industry.

I already stated what airline I walked away from during a strike... and since you want me to be honest... well here is the truth: you both were still sh1tting in your diapers when I was flying at a Major for a living. Here is another truth; I'm making more money flying Part 91 for a Fortune 100 Company than either one of you two geniuses flying the "heavy iron".

I guess I'm still smarter than both of you twerps. I certainly have more integrity. Hows that for "honesty".

 

[HarleyGuy]

Here's a big difference: Airtran offered MDW non-pilot employeesinterviews. SWA is offering EVERY furloughed pilot an interview.Airtran wanted some gates and routes. That's it. SWA not only seems towant ATA to survive (in spite of ATA mgt, some would say) but now theyhave a financial stake in that survival. Apples and oranges. Notbashing Airtran, they're free to make a business offer. But no one candeny that SWA's seems much less cold. Repeat: not bashing Airtran, buttrying to point out one more reason to think well of SWA.

JMHO

ps- clarification: SWA may only be interested in ATA surviving to servecities that SWA does not, but it would be better for ATA to end upserving only those 7 or 8 cities than being history altogether. Again, jmho.

 

[Angus]

Here's a big difference: Airtran offered MDW non-pilot employees interviews. SWA is offering EVERY furloughed pilot an interview. Airtran wanted some gates and routes. That's it. SWA not only seems to want ATA to survive (in spite of ATA mgt, some would say) but now they have a financial stake in that survival. Apples and oranges. Not bashing Airtran, they're free to make a business offer. But no one can deny that SWA's seems much less cold. Repeat: not bashing Airtran, but trying to point out one more reason to think well of SWA.

JMHO

I disagree. Business is business and the end result for the Pilots at ATA will be the same. Southwest is and will grow at the expense of ATA. I respect your opinion... and quite frankly I hope you're right.

My question is why the deafening silence??

I know the answer... I just like to point out the hypocrisy of a few of the ATA geniuses around here..... and see how many more of you ATA Pilots will defend this hypocrisy and lack of integrity.

Answer: So far... ALL of you on this forum it appears.

 

[Jim Smyth]

Angus, this news about the cut backs at ATA and the phase out of Chicago Express in March just happened yesterday! When I was in there senorio back in 1991 I was still tipping a few back for the pain. A few nice comments would go a long way rather than rubbing salt in the open wound. Also Since you say you have been there before I would think you would have some compassion.

 

[Angus]

Angus, this news about the cut backs at ATA and the phase out of Chicago Express in March just happened yesterday! When I was in there senorio back in 1991 I was still tipping a few back for the pain. A few nice comments would go a long way rather than rubbing salt in the open wound. Also Since you say you have been there before I would think you would have some compassion.

Jim:

I have ALOT of compassion for the good people in this industry. I have no compassion for the few ATA Pilots who spewed their B.S. on flightinfo during the MDW takeover bid by Southwest and Airtran. I also do not believe that being in a "bad" situation gives anyone a free pity pass to say what ever they want with immunity..... even on the internet.

I want to hear from the ATA Pilots... and they are all too chickensh!t to speak up... except to play the "poor pitiful me card"... or to blast me for pointing out their coworkers hypocrisy and lack of integrity.

Obviously their little game is working... you seem to feel "sorry" for them.

 

[Tristar]

My question is why the deafening silence??

Already answered:

Here's a big difference: Airtran offered MDW non-pilot employeesinterviews. SWA is offering EVERY furloughed pilot an interview.Airtran wanted some gates and routes. That's it. SWA not only seems towant ATA to survive (in spite of ATA mgt, some would say) but now theyhave a financial stake in that survival.

That and the vehement denials by some on this board that our contract contained fragmentation language which would have required pilots to go with aircraft OR ROUTES. Now I know as well as the next guy that that section could have been trashed by the court, but the prevailing attitude exhibited here was "It's not a merger - we owe you nothing." Fair enough - but at least acknowledge what is in our contract. Additionally, a simple statement by the Airtran union that they would hope their company would bring ATA pilots on would have gone a long way. The silence on that subject was truly deafening. The first time any moves were made (and it was by Airtran management) was when it became the loss of jobs would be a political issue in Chicago.

I'm not here to bash Airtran, the few of their pilots I've talked to have been great (heck, I may be looking for work there soon), but hopefully the above answers your question.

As an aside - one of my FO's just related a little incident which occured less than two weeks ago. He was jumpseating to work on a Southwest flight, and when he went forward to introduce himself to the captain, was greeted with "Welcome to the family." It's a small thing, and may not amount to much in the long run, but it's certainly a nice gesture . . .

 

[FL717]

Jim:
Obviously their little game is working... you seem to feel "sorry" for them.

Hey Anus:

On behalf of the AirTran Pilots... let me be the first to say... F.U.!

 

[OakRBust]

All furloughed ATA folks are gonna get a shot at SWA if they want it. I have two buddies that I used to work with at Mesaba that are getting F'ed at the end of the month from ATA that have interviews early in FEB with us. I hope like hell we hire all the good ATA folks!!! It sucks that times are tough now at ATA and I wouldn't wish it on anybody (well maybe Low ) but I am very glad SWA is doing the right thing and giving the great ATA folks their shot!

Go get em guys. Hope to see you in Big D. I'll get the first 2!!

Oak

 

[atafan]

Angus,

Man you sure have a lot of anger at ATA pilots.

We never had a problem with the AirTran pilots only the deal. Weprobably had a few pilots say things that they want to take back inthe heat of the moment but history is history. The facts are wethought AWA was going to offer more jobs than AirTran, wouldn't it bewise to back such a plan?

Well, hindsight is 20/20 isn't it. I still believe that the SWA dealwill be better for ATA pilots than the AirTran plan, I have neverthought that SWA was coming to the rescue, this is business.

We will feel some pain for around a year but the code shareagreementwill be huge and will provide a lot of revenue for bothairlines and hopefully more jobs. AirTran is a fine airline but let'sbe honest SWA has more muscle right now than most airlines, so whichairline would you rather be partnered with.

SWA has supplied ATA with one of their finest execs to help turn usaround, AirTran offered no such deal. SWA offered DIP financing andwill offer to buy 27.5% stock in the company an additional 30 milliondollars, AirTran offered no such deal.

SWA is giving our furloughed preferential interviews, AirTran sent anHR lady to talk for a day, neither airline was obligated to do anythingand is much appreciated.

SWA will greatly expand our code share agreement and I believe it willbe he envy of the industry. It doesn't take a genius to figure out whyATA pilots are excited about the SWA deal. SWA is providing assistancein every level including crew scheduling and more to turn ATA into alean efficient airline. SWA has the resources, technical savvy and mostimportantly the desire to make this code share agreement successful.

ATA has a new mission to provide a new revenue stream to SWA, expandour military and Hawaii flying and once we are stabilized we willexpand overseas for SWA.

This is the plan. It's business and not even your business Angus, soquit being so emotional. I'm excited and most ATA pilots are too. I amnot happy about furloughing our pilots but we will see how many find anew home with SWA, GOOD LUCK guys and gals.

 

[atafan]

I guess when you're a young inexperienced punkatabankruptcarrier.... its more fun to re-write history, andjustmakethings upabout things you know nothing about.

Angus,

I'm still trying to figure you out and why you have so much anger.Yousaid you quit UAL because you didn't want to scab. I know a lotofpilots at UAL and the only pilots that quit during that strike inthe80s were the pilots who did cross the line. I still don't know whyacorporate pilot is so interested in this board to the point you wanttobanter on and on over something that has nothing to do with, ormaybeit does. H'mm curious'er and curious'er.....

By the way I used to fly for an old legacy carrier that is no longer with us and I haven't worn diapers since 1960.

 

[HalinTexas]

I'm probably one of those that some might think disparaged Airtran's family lineage. I didn't, but I was not happy with the "deal" offered by Airtran managment or the defense of it given by Airtran employees on this site. I voiced my opinion, and I stand by it.

I'm now troubled by the posts of those that say they are from Airtran that seem to be dancing on our "grave." I don't see the recent announcments decreasing service in KIND as being the beginning of the end. I see it as the beginning of the beginning. A new sheriff is in town and he ain't lettin' the same ol' folks run the saloon. He's beginning to run the undesirable varmints out of town. There is probably more bad news to come, but I think there is more good news than bad. Yes, a lot of guys/gals are losing their jobs. Being a junior captain I fly with a lot of them. We've got a lot of VERY senior guys who are ready to close the place down, literally, yesterday! I don't really want to work with them, but what can you do? There's those 10%'ers everywhere.

I still think this codeshare is better for us than anything else offered, or almost offered up. The potential is ASTOUNDING! It's up to SWA and the interim managment to make it happen. I'm also not feeling the LUV by SWA. I am afraid, sometimes, that we've been used to keep the competion out of MDW, and to initiate expanded service to previously non-SWA cities. Irrational fear, I know. We shall see.

Airtran has hired about as many ATA pilots in the last six months as SWA has, but SWA is planning on interviewing many more.

Best of luck to those furloughed at ATA and Chico. I know it sucks and there's not much I can say to help except don't wallow in pity or quit.

 

[Jim Smyth]

Jim: you seem to feel "sorry" for them.

Well, Yes I do. I have worked next to them for many years at Midway airport. Some are good friends that I have worked with at different airlines in the past. I was in there shoes and standing in the unemployment line in 1991 and it wasnt one of the high points of my life. Kinda felt embarrased and ashamed appling for unemployment for the first time ever. Worked 4 different jobs putting food on the table and to have health insurance for the family until I could get back with another airline and fulfill my career destiny. I guess I do feel for them. Thats called compassion, something you obviously dont have.

 

[Boeingman]

Thats called compassion, something you obviously dont have.

You also forgot credibility.

Also, FWIW, the P2P folks @ CAL ALPA mentioned they are trying to work out a preferential interview set up for ATA pilots. Supposedly all recalls and the XJET pilots will be back by early summer and off the street hiring shortly thereafter.

 

[BDD]

ANGASS,


If your a real pilot, you must be a real dick to fly with.

BDD

 

[HalinTexas]

More news.

Heads have been rolling in IND. Good, 'bout time. Some more may come. Dennison has only been around week. Union met with the company yesterday; they all came out of the meeting feeling better about our situation. To a man, they've stated they felt comfortable with our new Co-CRO. We've also learned that the Co. needs $3M per month for 4 months in concessions from the pilot group. Neg. Com. is meeting with them next week.

The first criteria item this pilot group has stated that it needs to even consider concessions was new managment. Off to a good start, some would like a few more (by name) to go.

The second criteria is a plan. That is forthcoming, but staving off the "bleeding" in IND has been a smart start.

We're in the saddle now, the horse ain't broke yet, but he ain't throwing me so easy. We might just yet make a good saddle horse of him yet. It's a long ride ahead!

 

[HalinTexas]

Also, FWIW, the P2P folks @ CAL ALPA mentioned they are trying to work out a preferential interview set up for ATA pilots.

Thank you, that would be great. Particularly since you're getting 6 B757-300's from us in the next few months.

 

[flyhard]

Anus,

Isn't there a 91 forum to rant and rave on? The reasons you fly 91 is simple. One you endanger only a few people at a time. Two you have only a few people to piss off when you fly with them. As old as you are, you would think, you would have learned about a thing called class. I guess you can't teach an old dog new tricks though. The fact is that we (ATA) have enjoyed a great relationship between pilot groups long before any of this had taken place. Now you need to relax before you have a heart attack and can't fly and piss people off anymore.

Jim,

Thanks always for the kind words.

 

[Angus]

Well...welll... this certainly has been enlightening. Lets run thru a quick list of what we've learned.

1. To decide to leave an airline during a strike, and NOT scab... and move on with life and economics and career is to be labelled a quitter.

2. ATA Pilots on these forums love scabs.. or at least embrace that mentality... so as not to be labelled a "quitter.

3. CAL Pilots that ARE/WERE scabs will weigh in on threads without even bothering to address the topic.

4. Pilots from a bankrupt carrier are suddenly entitled to sh!t all over these forums with immunity to any sort of accountability for their words.

5. Original Ex-Midway Pilots will spout off about compassion... for what reason... I have no idea..... since we're talking about integrity and honesty... not prostitution.

6. That Pilots on these forums are more interested in short term memory loss and allowing others to sh!t on them rather than call it as it REALLY is.

7. That the little boys on these threads will make diversions about "pity" rather than address issues brought up.

8. That there is ONE ATA PILOT on these forums with "integrity". That would be Halintexas. At least he has the b*lls to at least fess up and address his posts... and at least back it up with consistency. I'd fly with someone like that any day over the whining, wannabe, attention deficit, integrity lacking, posters here who roll over and let anyone give it to them.

No wonder the airlines are such as mess.... just look at you all, and read your own writings, what a real award winning panel of schleps.

 

[Boeingman]

3. CAL Pilots that ARE/WERE scabs will weigh in on threads without even bothering to address the topic.

.

That's odd. My ALPA pin has a star on top of it.

 

[Angus]

That's odd. My ALPA pin has a star on top of it.

That was quick... What makes you think I was talking about YOU?? Feelin' a little guilty... or just a sore spot.

BTW - As far as ALPA is concerned there are no more scabs at CAL.... so what is your point... besides your head?

 

[Boeingman]

That was quick...

I'm sorry is there a time compliance period to respond to something? Yours was 6 minutes, but who is counting. Pardon me for just happen to be reading this. I promise I'll wait any amount of time you specify your highness to make the content more acceptable.

What makes you think I was talking about YOU??

Seeing as how I was the first obvious CAL pilot to post something, your thinly veiled reference seemed obvious, not to mention stupid.

Feelin' a little guilty... or just a sore spot.

Obviously, you haven't a clue as to the meaning of the star. If you did you wouldn't of written that. It only makes you look more of an idiot than you have already proven yourself to be.

BTW - As far as ALPA is concerned there are no more scabs at CAL.... so what is your point... besides your head?

Incorrect statement.

So you claim you quit UAL before their strike? What color was your uniform and who was your strike chairman? Careful on your answer.

 

[Boeingman]

Thank you, that would be great. Particularly since you're getting 6 B757-300's from us in the next few months.

If I hear anything more specific I will post it. It was mentioned in the last P2P call so it is not just crew room rumor or a jumpseat tale.

BTW, I thought we were getting 8 of them.

 

[Angus]

I'm sorry is there a time compliance period to respond to something? Yours was 6 minutes, but who is counting. Pardon me for just happen to be reading this. I promise I'll wait any amount of time you specify your highness to make the content more acceptable.




Seeing as how I was the first obvious CAL pilot to post something, your thinly veiled reference seemed obvious, not to mention stupid.



Obviously, you haven't a clue as to the meaning of the star. If you did you wouldn't of written that. It only makes you look more of an idiot than you have already proven yourself to be.



Incorrect statement.

So you claim you quit UAL before their strike? What color was your uniform and who was your strike chairman? Careful on your answer.

OOOOOHHHHH... a quiz!!!! Oh Oh Oh OH... I know... I know... Pick me....... Pick me!!! I'm willing to bet that I could show you my uniform... (I still have them) including the last paystub I got there, and YOU would still sit here and argue with me. That is the sign of a real jack*ss.....

How Quaint...

I wouldn't participate in one of your guilt ridden diversions even if you wore that ALPA pin like a hemorroid pad.... which I'm willing to bet you have.

Wow.... tsk..tsk...tsk....

I guess a sore spot doesn't always heal. Once again... please show me where I singled you out by name sparky...

Hey ... I know... how about commenting on the issue of this thread???

LOL!!

 

[Boeingman]

OOOOHHHHH... a quiz!!!! Oh Oh Oh OH... I know... I know... Pick me....... Pick me!!! I'm willing to bet that I could show you my uniform... (I still have them) including the last paystub I got there, and YOU would still sit here and argue with me. That is the sign of a real jack*ss.....

Actually, the sign of a real jacka$$ is someone that responds like an 8 year old with zero intellect. I didn’t ask to see your imaginary uniform either. I guess from your reading comprehension, English is a third or fourth language for you?

I wouldn't participate in one of your guilt ridden diversions even if you wore that ALPA pin like a hemorroid pad.... which I'm willing to bet you have.

There is a difference between can’t and wouldn’t. Ask your mom and dad to explain the difference to you. Guilt ridden? Now give me a real good laugh and tell me what I have to be guilty of? Aside from responding to an even bigger moron that LowIQer?

P.S. The answer is Brown. I don't think you'll be able to find it with a google search.