ASTAR'S Race to the Bottom

[fodc8]

Euro my statements about checking facts was not intended for you sorry for the confusion. I would have you check your sources as soon as you can about the 767's. I think you might find that things have just recently changed. Let me know if I'm wrong. Thanks

 

[flyinboxes]

Rejected cuts for 76's. Now get your facts straight, and clean your own house. Stay out of ours.

 

[EuroWheenie]

Must be very recent mate, I spoke to the DFO only last week. Am presently in IST, next week in JFK, week after that LED and then ILN/MIA. By the time I'm back in BRU (Beer-fuelled Rumours Uncontrolled) I trust they'll have announced who the operator will be.

My money, for what it's worth, is on Polar. Would obviously have preferred for us to operate them, secondly ASTAR - but nobody asked me how I feel

 

[fodc8]

Rejected cuts for 76's. Now get your facts straight, and clean your own house. Stay out of ours.

I'm going to assume you were not at the meeting last night. Otherwise you would not make a silly statement like that.

 

[AV8OR]

I'm going to assume you were not at the meeting last night. Otherwise you would not make a silly statement like that.

Umm, no dude, trust me, he was there.

 

[356emain]

Rejected cuts for 76's. Now get your facts straight, and clean your own house. Stay out of ours.

How can we clean our own house when your MEC chair is willing to fly the same plane as ours for 50.00 less an hour? If i am wrong I stand corrected.

 

[hvydriver]

How can we clean our own house when your MEC chair is willing to fly the same plane as ours for 50.00 less an hour? You need to call Pat Walsh and ask him about his talk with Dave Ross. It sounded like he was willing to take narrow body pay and ten day blocks of time. If i am wrong I stand corrected.

Wrong. And all you guys are getting worked up over nothing. We aren't going low. There isn't a player in this in the land that has rates as low as Atlas. So, I'd suggest you have Ross call Borne and ask him what they're going to do to get their rates up to our level. I realize you guys are best buddies and all, but that is the reality of the situation. As far as blocks of time are concerned, international trips always last longer than a standard 7 days. Our CVG/BRU/BAH trips were anywhere from 8-10 days, just depending on the layover set up. UPS/FDX has international trips running as long as 14 days, I believe. So what is the problem with that? Are you guys going to start telling us how we should build trip schedules now?

 

[rotor&wing]

How can we clean our own house when your MEC chair is willing to fly the same plane as ours for 50.00 less an hour? If i am wrong I stand corrected.

It's easy to twist and make wrong assumptions when you don't have the whole story. Your above quote is misleading and totally off base.

Yes you are wrong.

 

[fob727]

How can we clean our own house when your MEC chair is willing to fly the same plane as ours for 50.00 less an hour? If i am wrong I stand corrected.

What?? That's a great excuse for your lack of progress.

 

[Box-Hauler]

Of the 3 operators mentioned, who already has 76 or 75's. I know the fatherland does not think of things like start up cost, MX spares, MX training, pilot training, proving runs, CatIII proving runs, on and on. Since they only are concerned with the pennies of paying a crew they will give it to someone who has never seen a Boeing.

Oh, Oh, I know, the company that only has Airbus equipment, they will be the one getting the new 76's.........

I am fed up with these clowns. Who is driving this bus. How did they become the largest shipper in the world, it had to be because no one else wanted to ship to the destinations they were going to and they won by default..........

Does anyone have the number to "Truck Masters" driving school......

Back to burying my head in the corn.......... "there's no place like home," "there's no place like home" (repeat as you rock back and forth):laugh:

 

[EuroWheenie]

Box

I don't think Air Hong Kong (owned 40% by DHL) are in the running to operate the 76s, and they're the only guys around who only operate busses (A300-600F). So, who were you thinking of when you made that statement?

And contrary to what you may think, all costs are indeed being factored in; it's part of the bidding process. Crew costs are but one component, and whilst it is far from the smallest one, it is not the biggest. All bidders were asked to estimate TOTAL costs for operating the 76s, as well as state the transatlantic ETOPS experience of their crews, their familiarity with mx of the Boeing 767/757 fleet, the engines (GE), Cat III ops and everything else you might think of. The people making the decision couldn't really give a flying feck what proportion of the total costs are crew related, they're interested in the bottom line only.

They're not a bunch of amateurs mate; this show is not being run out of the Posttower in Bonn but by some very seasoned aviation guys - the leading figure being a Canadian.

 

[hvydriver]

Of the 3 operators mentioned, who already has 76 or 75's. I know the fatherland does not think of things like start up cost, MX spares, MX training, pilot training, proving runs, CatIII proving runs, on and on. Since they only are concerned with the pennies of paying a crew they will give it to someone who has never seen a Boeing.

Oh, Oh, I know, the company that only has Airbus equipment, they will be the one getting the new 76's.........

I am fed up with these clowns. Who is driving this bus. How did they become the largest shipper in the world, it had to be because no one else wanted to ship to the destinations they were going to and they won by default..........

Does anyone have the number to "Truck Masters" driving school......

Back to burying my head in the corn.......... "there's no place like home," "there's no place like home" (repeat as you rock back and forth):laugh:

The one thing we can all agree on Box, is that the Germans have totally wrecked DHL.

 

[EuroWheenie]

hvy

I'm hardly a big fan of the way DPWN has changed the corporate culture of DHL, nor am I at all convinced they're doing the right things as far as the aviation side of the business is concerned. But your statement is just a tad out of proportion.

I found a rather interesting analsys of DPWN, amongst which I cut this quote:

DPWN has grown its Express business strongly through acquisitions over the past six years, increasing turnover from 4.8 billion in 1999 to 17.2 billion in 2006. The major acquisitions have been DHL, which was completed in 2002 for 1.1 billion (for the 53.6% DPWN did not already own), and Airborne, completed in 2003 for 1 billion.

I shall be the first to admit that I'm not a bean counter, but increasing turnover by 300% can hardly be described as wrecking the company!

Also found this one:

DPWN considers it necessary as a global express company to be able to offer its international clients access to its own US network. In addition, the US market is in terms of revenues the world's largest express market, representing around 25% of the global express market. At the same time, the US express market is very mature compared with the growing markets in Europe and particularly Asia/Pacific, and is dominated by UPS and FedEx, which have a combined market share of nearly 50%.
This makes it a very competitive and difficult environment for other providers such as DHL. In order to reach a critical size and cover the high fixed
costs of maintaining a network, DPWN acquired Airborne in 2003. However, integration problems, combined with weak service performance and low brand awareness, necessitated additional infrastructure investments, which resulted in a cumulative loss of over 1 billion from 2004 to 2006 (of which 434 million were related to an impairment depreciation in 2005) according to Moody´s calculations. The company's original goal of
breaking even in the US in the fourth quarter of 2006 has been now postponed to 2009.

Overall, Moody's expects that, in light of the oligopolistic and mature market structure in the US, it will be difficult for DHL Express to achieve a competitive position even after the integration of Airborne is completed.

 

[hvydriver]

Well Euro, perhaps I should have been more precise. What I should have said is: "The one thing we can all agree on Box, is that the Germans have totally wrecked DHL in the US." Better?

 

[EuroWheenie]

hvy

You know me mate, I'd rather blame ABX for that, a bold statement indeed, but one that is supported by the excerpt from the analysis I posted above.

Integration problems: ABX refusing to play ball
Poor service: Consequence of the above, resulting in customers fleeing to the FedUPS.
Poor brand recognition: Just like DHL is the synonym for Express in many parts of Europe, the same holds true for FedEx and UPS in the states. I have no idea what DPWN has done to raise awareness of the DHL brand in the US, but it stands to reason they haven't done enough.

The decision to purchase Airborne was, to my mind, the right one. But the decision to leave CVG for ILN was, again to my mind, not a wise choice. Working with guys who hold the keys to your success but whom you have little to no control over can only lead to problems.

 

[AV8OR]

Of the 3 operators mentioned, who already has 76 or 75's. I know the fatherland does not think of things like start up cost, MX spares, MX training, pilot training, proving runs, CatIII proving runs, on and on. Since they only are concerned with the pennies of paying a crew they will give it to someone who has never seen a Boeing.

Oh, Oh, I know, the company that only has Airbus equipment, they will be the one getting the new 76's.........

I am fed up with these clowns. Who is driving this bus. How did they become the largest shipper in the world, it had to be because no one else wanted to ship to the destinations they were going to and they won by default..........

Does anyone have the number to "Truck Masters" driving school......

Back to burying my head in the corn.......... "there's no place like home," "there's no place like home" (repeat as you rock back and forth):laugh:

Box,

There's some good q's and A's in your post.

The intel we've gathered during the last week is that the 767's were probably all going to EAT, who, by the way operates 10 or so 757s, but apparently, politics got involved and maybe (who knows) some might go to Luft. Apparently, Daz, for whatever reason, (and he probably doesn't need one other than he's a lying sos), thought he'd use the possibility of 767's coming here, to get another bite at the apple a couple of weeks after the CBA was signed. Unfortunately for the Daz, he has a SVP of Maintenance that likes to drink and run his mouth, and the coup de grace on the issue was that guy getting drunk and unknowingly spilling the beans that those aircraft never were destined for AStar to an AStar pilot....jacka$$.

Also, there's some real truth to your statement that they became the largest shipper by going into markets where they didn't have to compete with anyone else for a variety of reasons. Unfortunately, for us all, they arrogantly believed that the same strategy that got them there in the rest of the world, would play just fine in the U.S........they were wrong.

 

[AV8OR]

The decision to purchase Airborne was, to my mind, the right one. But the decision to leave CVG for ILN was, again to my mind, not a wise choice. Working with guys who hold the keys to your success but whom you have little to no control over can only lead to problems

That says it all right there Euro. That's what they did both with ABX as well as the ground delivery portion through firing the DHL drivers and using contractors instead. They had control of the delivery with the delivery drivers and they sold it away instead of growing it. They still have control of AStar, at least emotionaly, because all of us flying their equipment know who we went to work for and why we went to work there. Unfortunately, in spite of this, they have always tended to treat us like the red-headed stepchild of the global DHL network. And, now they have at the helm of AStar a lying, greedy, pos who has ZERO credibility. The reason we do our best at AStar...a. Cause we're professionals. b. Cause we know that to operate any different just makes a bad situation worse. We just wish that once in a while the mothership would show the love in appreciation. Not expecting that anytime soon though.

 

[shooter]

Oh boy, here we go again. uke:

You know me mate, I'd rather blame ABX for that, a bold statement indeed, but one that is supported by the excerpt from the analysis I posted above.

Keep blaming who you want and never accept the fact DHL deserves the responsibility for the problems. But you are thousands of miles away and think you know all the facts since you swigged some brew with another complainer that refuses to accept responsibility. Were you really in the know then you would understand that ABX had forwarded DHL of many of the problems and DHL refused to listen. Sound familiar to what you are seeing over in Leipzig now doesn't it? Whatever Euro, your rose colored glasses seem to have blinders on the sides as well.

Integration problems: ABX refusing to play ball

Not true. Maybe your beer drinking mate needs the facts, that way you would be better informed.

Poor service: Consequence of the above, resulting in customers fleeing to the FedUPS.

That’s it, keep blaming ABX rather than fixing the real problem. That will get all the customers back.

Poor brand recognition: Just like DHL is the synonym for Express in many parts of Europe, the same holds true for FedEx and UPS in the states. I have no idea what DPWN has done to raise awareness of the DHL brand in the US, but it stands to reason they haven't done enough.

Holds some truth. But does not represent the real problems.

The decision to purchase Airborne was, to my mind, the right one. But the decision to leave CVG for ILN was, again to my mind, not a wise choice. Working with guys who hold the keys to your success but whom you have little to no control over can only lead to problems.

You think ABX does anything without DHL making the call then you need a pee test Euro. Keep living in denial along with the other DHL people. It will surely put DHL in a worse position than what they find themselves in. Where did all the Airborne customers go? The ones that stayed with Airborne for over 25 years? Think it was just the name DHL that made them run? So mate, you need a reality check.

 

[shooter]

The decision to purchase Airborne was, to my mind, the right one. But the decision to leave CVG for ILN was, again to my mind, not a wise choice. Working with guys who hold the keys to your success but whom you have little to no control over can only lead to problems

That says it all right there Euro. That's what they did both with ABX as well as the ground delivery portion through firing the DHL drivers and using contractors instead. They had control of the delivery with the delivery drivers and they sold it away instead of growing it. They still have control of AStar, at least emotionaly, because all of us flying their equipment know who we went to work for and why we went to work there. Unfortunately, in spite of this, they have always tended to treat us like the red-headed stepchild of the global DHL network. And, now they have at the helm of AStar a lying, greedy, pos who has ZERO credibility. The reason we do our best at AStar...a. Cause we're professionals. b. Cause we know that to operate any different just makes a bad situation worse. We just wish that once in a while the mothership would show the love in appreciation. Not expecting that anytime soon though.

Are you freaking kidding me AV8OR? You think ABX made ANY of those decisions?

 

[AV8OR]

Are you freaking kidding me AV8OR? You think ABX made ANY of those decisions?

No Shooter, you misunderstand, I lay the blame not at ABX's feet really, but at DHL's. With only a few exceptions, DHL management is the one who makes the final call on the big decisions, i.e moving to ILN, firing the DHL drivers infavor of contractors.

Sorry for the confusion.