Astar announces new hire class in Oct.

[b707guy]

Astar must be about the only company these days hiring SOs exclusively. I guess that's an ALPA thing. Most other airlines that I'm aware of that still fly three seaters (the proper cockpit configuration...) these days hire PFEs, or PFEs with a few SOs mixed in. I guess it'll happen someday, but I don't really look forward to not having a professional oiler in that third seat.

Either way, I wish I had taken that interview with DHL in early 2001 instead of sticking with the other loser company that employed me in the short term then. Of course, if I had that kind of crystal ball, I wouldn't have to work right now if I didn't want to . I might have actually been in a front seat there by now, too!

 

[Narco-leftseat]

To the curious......

The funny thing about Astar is that it is a pretty good job.

If you consider it for what it is. It is not Delta....It is not United....but it is a job that pays, you can retire on a fat 401k (Biggest out there)...lottsa time off/vac/ 4 star hotels...wayyyy too easy to get a day off...etc.
And just poach off the reserve system if you don't wanna fly a lot, but still make a lot of scratch.You have to be able to see through the bs...like old airplanes and check in for a CASS somewhere and they say.."Who is Ass-tar?"....

 

[Whistlin' Dan]

There is NO comparison between Astar and Delta. Nobody in his right mind is sitting somewhere, looking at job offers from both companies, and trying to decide which one to take.

Fact-Prior to 9/11, guys were going to Delta that were within 1-2 years year of holding the left seat at Astar.

Fact-Most guys who are offered jobs at Delta take them. Not so at Astar.

Fact-Astar has had over 30 people (mostly junior, but including one Captain), leave in the last year. Ther are a lot more who would like to leave but can't, for financial reasons. The ones who did leave were are all people who came in, took a look around, and decided to "get, while the gettin' was good." That's not exactly a vote of confidence from people who should know, and it will affect the quality (and tenure) of people who accept the jobs that are now being offered.

Sounds like your second, third, fourth, and maybe even fifth years may be sitting sideways.

According to that "other" message board, it's more like 8 years. With the trend towards 2-man cockpits and the pending change to the age-60 rule, it's extremely unlikely that those numbers will improve anytime soon.

Pay and bennies- Yea, the pay for Astar S/O's is OK, but it doesn't compare to UPS. UPs drivers, that is.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/companies/management/2003-10-14-ups_x.htm

The biggest drawbacks to working the panel at Astar are that it won't get you an interview at UPS, it won't make you as much money as working for most of the other ACMI carriers, and it won't leave you qualified to work anyplace else.

 

[rotor&wing]

Fact-Astar has had over 30 people (mostly junior, but including one Captain), leave in the last year.

Hey, you forgot to mention that DC8 Capt that got fired (again).

 

[flyinboxes]

There is NO comparison between Astar and Delta. Nobody in his right mind is sitting somewhere, looking at job offers from both companies, and trying to decide which one to take.

Fact-Prior to 9/11, guys were going to Delta that were within 1-2 years year of holding the left seat at Astar.

Fact-Most guys who are offered jobs at Delta take them. Not so at Astar.

Fact-Astar has had over 30 people (mostly junior, but including one Captain), leave in the last year. Ther are a lot more who would like to leave but can't, for financial reasons. The ones who did leave were are all people who came in, took a look around, and decided to "get, while the gettin' was good." That's not exactly a vote of confidence from people who should know, and it will affect the quality (and tenure) of people who accept the jobs that are now being offered.
According to that "other" message board, it's more like 8 years. With the trend towards 2-man cockpits and the pending change to the age-60 rule, it's extremely unlikely that those numbers will improve anytime soon.

Pay and bennies- Yea, the pay for Astar S/O's is OK, but it doesn't compare to UPS. UPs drivers, that is.

http://www.usatoday.com/money/companies/management/2003-10-14-ups_x.htm

The biggest drawbacks to working the panel at Astar are that it won't get you an interview at UPS, it won't make you as much money as working for most of the other ACMI carriers, and it won't leave you qualified to work anyplace else.

Talk about delusional. LMAO.

 

[flyinboxes]

With respect for you too, we have what is called an EICAS, which pretty much takes care of the FE. It's great that your contract forbids furloughing, but remember we had a no furlough clause too and 9-11 happened. Your merge or whatever you call it with ABX has cut back on your flying and closed your main base at CVG. Things haven't been too peachy over there, and your sister ABX has furloughed. You never know what will happen, so never say never. Going to Astar and sitting in the FE seat for 4 years and then getting furloughed with no additional flight time could be a waste of time for some potential newhires. That is what I am trying to point out here. I am also giving my own personal opinion on a postion (FE) that I actually experienced.

Bye Bye--General Lee

You will furlough again, the fundamentals of DL are still rotten. Management will reach deep into your pockets once again when they need to and you will give just like last time. I'm glad I'm not at DL and you are glad your not at Astar as an FE. Have a good day.

 

[dojetdriver]

No cuts over there? Huh? What happened to CVG? Gone. What happened to the whipsaw with ABX? You are dillusional. I guess it is great for you to hold mach .80 until a 2 mile final being the only plane out there at 5am. Great. Also, being number 20 for takeoff and flying at .76 actually makes you more money. And, for your information, we didn't lose any work rules in our BK, and we also got checks for about $180,000 for our claim sale after BK. Our first year pay is better than most too, and second year is a $25 an hour jump in some cases. Sounds like your second, third, fourth, and maybe even fifth years may be sitting sideways. Regardless, sitting in the FE seat for a long period of time absolutely suks, and you will probably forget how to fly. Have fun out there.

Bye Bye--General Lee

You ranted all about his second point, but you never answered his question.

Well, did the freakin' shrink blow his head off or not? I heard this as well but wondered if it was just urban legend.

 

[General Lee]

You will furlough again, the fundamentals of DL are still rotten. Management will reach deep into your pockets once again when they need to and you will give just like last time. I'm glad I'm not at DL and you are glad your not at Astar as an FE. Have a good day.

Wow, you sound like a CNBC financial GENIUS. Riiiight. The "fundamentals", huh? Getting our debt down from $20 billion to $7.5 billion wasn't good, eh? Bringing costs down and cutting leases (some MD88 leases went from $280,000 a month to $80,000). Our "fundamentals" are better than almost every legacy out there. We are adding 17 757s from AA, probably some MD90s from China for domestic use, and atleast 6 777LRs next year too. But, you know better...... Thank gawd I am NOT over there at Astar, flying that clunky 727 sideways. Really. No, really. See you in CV.....oh, nevermind. Oh, and I love your DHL DC-9s. Are they fun to fly over there? They are yours, right? Or are the ABXs? Nevermind.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

You ranted all about his second point, but you never answered his question.

Well, did the freakin' shrink blow his head off or not? I heard this as well but wondered if it was just urban legend.

I think the guy did comitt suicide, but that was a long time ago. That guy wasn't there in 96 when I did it.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[dojetdriver]

I think the guy did comitt suicide, but that was a long time ago. That guy wasn't there in 96 when I did it.

Bye Bye--General Lee

Are you sure? I heard about it around the summer 2000 time frame. A guy I flew with was turned down and the psych eval is where he didn't cut it. I guess he and some other guys were going to file suit.

The grounds would have been; "This jackhole is supposed to be determining if people are "psychologically fit" to fly for DAL, but then he goes and blows his own head off. So exactly WTF made him able to decide?" Or something like that.

 

[Box-Hauler]

Oh, and I love your DHL DC-9s. Are they fun to fly over there? They are yours, right? Or are the ABXs? Nevermind.


Bye Bye--General Lee

General Lee,

It appears you do not understand the DHL ACMI idea. DHL cannot own an airline in the U.S. They contract (ACMI) out their lift to AStar, ABX, Polar, NorthWest etc..

Each company is separate, and run independently from each other. The Astar guys cannot fly an ABX 9 or a Northwest 74. The aircraft are painted in DHL colors but go by their companies call signs. To put it in passenger carrier lingo think of Comair or SkyWest to Delta. The RJ's are painted in Delta colors but they are a separate company (or at least they used to be.) A Delta pilot cannot go fly an RJ because it is a separate company.

Your argument was flawed in that way, yet it is a valid point. I do not believe that anyone would choose to go to Astar over Delta. I also believe that no one would choose any DHL ACMI carrier over Delta, at this time. If DHL can get their act together an become a "player" in the express cargo industry then I do believe that people would leave the coveted Delta for a combined ABX/AStar, but only if they can handle the night freight lifestyle.

They are two very different industries with Pro's and Con's to each one. I doubt a "Delta" poster boy would be happy flying cargo, be it DHL, FedEx or even UPS. There are just too many differences.

 

[General Lee]

General Lee,

It appears you do not understand the DHL ACMI idea. DHL cannot own an airline in the U.S. They contract (ACMI) out their lift to AStar, ABX, Polar, NorthWest etc..

Each company is separate, and run independently from each other. The Astar guys cannot fly an ABX 9 or a Northwest 74. The aircraft are painted in DHL colors but go by their companies call signs. To put it in passenger carrier lingo think of Comair or SkyWest to Delta. The RJ's are painted in Delta colors but they are a separate company (or at least they used to be.) A Delta pilot cannot go fly an RJ because it is a separate company.

Your argument was flawed in that way, yet it is a valid point. I do not believe that anyone would choose to go to Astar over Delta. I also believe that no one would choose any DHL ACMI carrier over Delta, at this time. If DHL can get their act together an become a "player" in the express cargo industry then I do believe that people would leave the coveted Delta for a combined ABX/AStar, but only if they can handle the night freight lifestyle.

They are two very different industries with Pro's and Con's to each one. I doubt a "Delta" poster boy would be happy flying cargo, be it DHL, FedEx or even UPS. There are just too many differences.

No, I actually do understand the DHL concept. I am just making a point to the guy I was slamming, flyinboxes. Also, I don't think DHL will ever get too big in the US, since UPS and Fedex will continue to dominate. Astar has the oldest planes of the operators, and has been pushed around the most (losing CVG). Potential newhires should monitor that. And, initially I stated that I hated the 727 FE postion, not Astar. I actually was an engineer, and I can make that point since I did it. Flyinboxes is just jealous and obviously tired from his late nights. I guess I can understand that, well, not really.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[s2b]

I know for a fact that FlyinBoxes is jealous of no one, and he never seems tired. He is a stand up guy defending a company he is proud to work for.

General, if DL is so great, why are you spending time on an ASTAR thread slamming everyone who works there (and ABX too). I would think if you are so happy there at DL, you would have better things to do with your time.

 

[MJH767]

well said S2b!--from an ABX guy.

 

[AV8OR]

Hey look. Here's the deal. AStar's hiring. It's pretty good pay and bennies. We fly old stuff, which is actually kinda cool in some ways. You'll have to start sideways, which does kinda suck, (been that way myself for 5.5 years), and it's not the job you got into aviation for. Hopefully we're headed in a direction that a new hire here will see enough growth over the next few years that they won't have to sit sideways as long as some of us have, but given the time line to ramp up you're probably looking at minimum 2 years sideways. When you do upgrade, you'll get a pretty good block of refresher training and sim work to get you up to speed. We have had maybe, a couple guys in the years I've been here not make it through upgrade from the back seat, and at least one of 'em was hired years and years ago, has failed it several times, and in his past life had no jet time and not much instrument time. (Gen. Lee, apparently the skill level of our S/O's is sufficient to pass a DC-8 F/O type after 6 years in the back. Our psych eval is,... while blindfolded, we see if they can fully button a double breasted coat while being barraged with questions on how to get to concourse C in CVG. If they put up with the questions long enough to get the jacket fully buttoned,... they fail.)

So don't worry about out being able to fly when you upgrade unless you meet the min quals when you get here, then it might be little more challenging.

If you can get on at UPS or FedEx before here...go. If you get on here and get hired there in the first two years....look into it and maybe go.

Some folks can't hack the dark thirty flying, but if you ever dreamed of being an international heavy Cpt flying across the pond, trust me, you're gonna be flying at night.

No flight attendants, but hey, let's be realistic, for a lot of reaons, that hasn't been what it used to be for a long time.

We're just like everybody else. What's going on today, (growth, upgrades, newhires, etc.) can speed up and slow down for reasons out of our control. It'll be that way for you wherever you go. Read up on us and apply if you like. If you don't think it's for you, like he said, Delta's hiring. Heck, if they change age 60, you might even get to be in a new hire class over there with Whistlin' Dan. I bet he could pass that psych eval.

 

[flyinboxes]

No, I actually do understand the DHL concept. I am just making a point to the guy I was slamming, flyinboxes. Also, I don't think DHL will ever get too big in the US, since UPS and Fedex will continue to dominate. Astar has the oldest planes of the operators, and has been pushed around the most (losing CVG). Potential newhires should monitor that. And, initially I stated that I hated the 727 FE postion, not Astar. I actually was an engineer, and I can make that point since I did it. Flyinboxes is just jealous and obviously tired from his late nights. I guess I can understand that, well, not really.

Bye Bye--General Lee

I did not take it as a slam. Your response is typical of a legacy carrier passenger pilot. Flying along as the world crumbles around him and then blaming national. Not realizing that WE, thats right ASTAR, UPS, FEDEX, and ABX are the ONLY ones left holding the bar. You have not helped us, none of you. I am far from jealous, but I won't waste time explaining to you while I would never leave here for there. Now I'm off to my 27 day vacation, my 3rd of the year. Cya.

 

[shooter]

I did not take it as a slam. Your response is typical of a legacy carrier passenger pilot. Flying along as the world crumbles around him and then blaming national. Not realizing that WE, thats right ASTAR, UPS, FEDEX, and ABX are the ONLY ones left holding the bar. You have not helped us, none of you. I am far from jealous, but I won't waste time explaining to you while I would never leave here for there. Now I'm off to my 27 day vacation, my 3rd of the year. Cya.

Not taking sides here, but I would not hold that "bar" blame too close to the legacy guys. They were just doing what had to be done for their airlines to survive because other pilot groups were working for peanuts and a shot at a flight attendant. I think those are the ones who need to be slammed for lowering that bar, not the legacy pilots (or cargo pilots you listed).

 

[General Lee]

I know for a fact that FlyinBoxes is jealous of no one, and he never seems tired. He is a stand up guy defending a company he is proud to work for.

General, if DL is so great, why are you spending time on an ASTAR thread slamming everyone who works there (and ABX too). I would think if you are so happy there at DL, you would have better things to do with your time.

I comment on EVERY part of this industry. I enjoy every part, and I have an opinion, which you can debate if you wish. And, I enjoy this board. If you want me to not do something I enjoy, then all I can say is TOO BAD. I stated initially that it would suk to be an FE for years, and I have experience on the panel of the 727. Potential newhires should be warned. And I am happy at Delta and we are hiring.


Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

I did not take it as a slam. Your response is typical of a legacy carrier passenger pilot. Flying along as the world crumbles around him and then blaming national. Not realizing that WE, thats right ASTAR, UPS, FEDEX, and ABX are the ONLY ones left holding the bar. You have not helped us, none of you. I am far from jealous, but I won't waste time explaining to you while I would never leave here for there. Now I'm off to my 27 day vacation, my 3rd of the year. Cya.

Wow, that sounds great. I would say flying a 3 day to different cities in Europe on the company's dime would also be a "vacation" too. First of all, I don't blame National--they have had their hands full with our BKs. 9-11 really did a number on some legacies. As far as you guys holding the bar---I might agree with UPS and Fedex. Astar and ABX have kept the higher pay, but have been pummled and are a shell of their former selves. Their CVG hub has been shut down, their integration has been messy and cloudy, and the company size and growth is in question. A clear whipsaw is in effect at Astar/ABX. I wouldn't call that a favorable outcome at all. Sure, your rates are still high, but most of your flying is not desirable.
DHL tried to make a go at being a large number 3, but that seems to be waning now. Flying an old DC9 to Tri-Cities even at a high rate doesn't appeal to me at all, and the FE seat is even worse. You couldn't pay me enough to go back to that seat, and even stay there for multiple years. No thanks. And, Astar/ABX is not in the same bucket as UPS and Fedex. Really.... have fun on your long vacation.

Bye Bye--General Lee

 

[General Lee]

duplicate post.