ASA/XJT update

[007]

Jerry has all of the Gold. Jerry make the rules. If we do not play by his rules you will LOSE!

Oh my....Jerry is...GOD himself.

 

[Gr82Aviate]

ASA rocks. I want an AceyPalooza ticket! Go Atlanta! woo!!!!!!
Who needs a contract when I'm getting a free turkey?
Gimme a ride in a Mini Indy car, don't worry about Painmaker!
Roll my day off, then don't restore it, it's ok.
Thank you, may I have another?
I love surveys that don't apply to flight crews, but to the people in the cubicles...
We're getting iPads tomorrow! AeroData in da house!
Take away my Business travel insurance, I won't notice!
Oooh look, a shiny pin!
Surely, a jet. Are you Sure? Raise your hands if you're Sure!

What if they offered you free Cowboy boots?

 

[www.]

Is this JM guy a regional lifer? If so, explains everything.

Hmmm. Food for thought. There were about 5 guys that left ASA in 1999 for UAL. Guess what they are doing now after loosing their homes, wives and retirements. Called back for a "3rd" time to UAL.

People make moves on their own agenda not yours.

 

[titans10]

Yep, he started at ASA in 1994.

He was part of the problem back in the day. PFT.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

Oooh. A regional "lifer". There are NO guarantees in this industry and I count myself lucky to have been steadily employed here. Somehow the entitlement generation thinks they should all be 777 captains at age 30 with their six month crash-course ATP training. Get in line, guys and gals

 

[Uncle Bunkle]

Guess what they are doing now after loosing their homes, wives and retirements.

What is that word?

 

[IFLYASA]

The United and American pilots "expected" more also...Doesn't mean you get it.

There is a big difference between "reasonable gains in all areas of your contract" and not taking concessions. One is attainable, one is not....I guess you guys will have to figure out which one is attainable

Well said Joe. I hear the XJT side is losing about 100k per month, where as the ASA side makes profit.

This cannot be sustained. Take the ASA contract, add 3%, give a little here, take a little there, clean up the language, and keep PBS. We are the best regional in the industry. Let's not price ourselves into a Comair/Pinnacle!

 

[IFLYASA]

Regarding PBS. Here at ASA I loved line bidding. I voted no for PBS and was pi$$ed when we got it. Now, I could never go back. I went from one extreme to the other. PBS is a beautiful thing.

For example. If Christams is on a Wedneday, with traditional line bidding you would do a 4 day that starts on Thurs-Sat to get Christmas off. But now you are losing weekneds. With PBS, you can bid weekends off, and still bid a schedule around Christmas. Also, Alot of guys will bid 3, 25 hour 4 day trips to get their 75 hours, then they have a week off. You can still get you 75 hour pay during vacation with 3 weeks off.

This is just a sample, but believe me, you would love it.

 

[79%N1]

Regarding PBS. Here at ASA I loved line bidding. I voted no for PBS and was pi$$ed when we got it. Now, I could never go back. I went from one extreme to the other. PBS is a beautiful thing.

For example. If Christams is on a Wedneday, with traditional line bidding you would do a 4 day that starts on Thurs-Sat to get Christmas off. But now you are losing weekneds. With PBS, you can bid weekends off, and still bid a schedule around Christmas. Also, Alot of guys will bid 3, 25 hour 4 day trips to get their 75 hours, then they have a week off. You can still get you 75 hour pay during vacation with 3 weeks off.

This is just a sample, but believe me, you would love it.

Ditto.

I want the second of Dec. off, and to work Thur-Sun. Easy with PBS. With line bidding, how many lines would I need to sort through to find that combo, and what are the odds I get THAT particular line. PBS is a better way to bid, and all this "it's a concession" is A LOAD OF CRAP!

 

[www.]

What is that word?

Losing. Thank you.

 

[LHRCrewDog]

Ditto.

I want the second of Dec. off, and to work Thur-Sun. Easy with PBS. With line bidding, how many lines would I need to sort through to find that combo, and what are the odds I get THAT particular line. PBS is a better way to bid, and all this "it's a concession" is A LOAD OF CRAP!

You just do not know our contract...and yes, we do not know PBS.

Our contract rules complement our current bidding system. If we go to PBS, things may get simplified, but we will ultimately lose out on some of the work rules that make our contract really top-notch. I think most of us would keep these work rules that we worked so hard to get even if it means spending 30 min sorting through the lines, and possibly 10-15 min on the line improvement window.

Lets all take a reality check here. There is only one thing we know for certain. There is a difference in culture between LASA and LXJT. Real shocker there... In general, we will never see things from the same perspective because we have all been in different environments for the past too many years.

 

[enuffalready]

You just do not know our contract...and yes, we do not know PBS.

Our contract rules complement our current bidding system. If we go to PBS, things may get simplified, but we will ultimately lose out on some of the work rules that make our contract really top-notch. I think most of us would keep these work rules that we worked so hard to get even if it means spending 30 min sorting through the lines, and possibly 10-15 min on the line improvement window.

Lets all take a reality check here. There is only one thing we know for certain. There is a difference in culture between LASA and LXJT. Real shocker there... In general, we will never see things from the same perspective because we have all been in different environments for the past too many years.

what the XJT guys haven't learned yet ( not their fault) is that when OO bought ASA, our guys were very militant.... over the years, and with some wounds, we have learned to work in concert with OO and as a result the majority of us are very happy. ASA/OO pilots have a lot more in common than the XJT peeps. The XJT peeps can be all militant if they want, but it would be wise to learn from our mistakes. Go ahead and fight the fight, the beneficiaries will be ASA/OO

 

[LHRCrewDog]

what the XJT guys haven't learned yet ( not their fault) is that when OO bought ASA, our guys were very militant.... over the years, and with some wounds, we have learned to work in concert with OO and as a result the majority of us are very happy. ASA/OO pilots have a lot more in common than the XJT peeps. The XJT peeps can be all militant if they want, but it would be wise to learn from our mistakes. Go ahead and fight the fight, the beneficiaries will be ASA/OO

I agree with most of what you stated. But look at the entire regional industry right now. Eagle and Republic offering $5000 signing bonuses. Legacies beginning the hiring wave soon. Most companies, except for Pinnacle, making money. The tides are turning.

I am a little out of the loop, so I do not know how militant "I" supposedly am. I really do not know what our side is asking for. The only point that I am trying to make is that our soon to be TA should have a total compensation package that is not unreasonable, but should be slightly industry leading for the regional side. This can be a combination of work rules, PBS and pay rates. To ask the LXJT side to give up 5% more on the total package (includes everything from medical to pay rates to PBS) would, in my humble opinion, be the equivalent of LASA (work rules and pay) + 3%. Probably not the best time for concessions and even Darby and Cohen would support this, per their latest article.

If our guys are being militant, they are probably not expecting to get what they want. But the TA that is produced will probably be reasonable and pass.

 

[enuffalready]

I agree with most of what you stated. But look at the entire regional industry right now. Eagle and Republic offering $5000 signing bonuses. Legacies beginning the hiring wave soon. Most companies, except for Pinnacle, making money. The tides are turning.

I am a little out of the loop, so I do not know how militant "I" supposedly am. I really do not know what our side is asking for. The only point that I am trying to make is that our soon to be TA should have a total compensation package that is not unreasonable, but should be slightly industry leading for the regional side. This can be a combination of work rules, PBS and pay rates. To ask the LXJT side to give up 5% more on the total package (includes everything from medical to pay rates to PBS) would, in my humble opinion, be the equivalent of LASA (work rules and pay) + 3%. Probably not the best time for concessions and even Darby and Cohen would support this, per their latest article.

If our guys are being militant, they are probably not expecting to get what they want. But the TA that is produced will probably be reasonable and pass.

there is a HUGE difference between offering 20 new pilots a signing bonus vs a working agreement that effects 5000 pilots for next 4-6 years. Yes tide is turning, but we also have new rest rules which are going to be a large expense in the future. again, you guys can fight the fight if that's what you want, but I think it just a bad idea. LASA guys have been where you are are now... we were militant... and so were the comair guys. Difference is we learned a happy medium and for the most part we are very happy. You haven't yet, are still militant.. and looks like are going to learn the hard way.

 

[Flyer1015]

What is that word?

"What is a loosie?"

"Is that a way of saying oral sex?"

"No..... But we should start saying that."

 

[ASAFOE120]

So Eagle is in bankruptcy and just voted in a concessionary contract. PNCL is in bankruptcy and is working out there concessionary contract. We bid against the likes of Mesa and Gojets for flying and we are supposed to be holding out for an "industry leading" contract???? I'm all for getting what I can but it's hard to raise the bar when everyone else is going the other way. Sign a 3 year deal and let's start negotiating in 2 years when hopefully the economy is better and lots of movement is taking place and hopefully we have
More leverage.

 

[Oakum_Boy]

Ditto the above. Keeping what we have, not the worst thing.

 

[FightingIrish]

I am a little out of the loop, so I do not know how militant "I" supposedly am. I really do not know what our side is asking for. The only point that I am trying to make is that our soon to be TA should have a total compensation package that is not unreasonable, but should be slightly industry leading for the regional side.

ejpogo, the problem is both the ASA and XJT contracts are already very industry leading, not just "slightly". That is without any improvements at all. They are about to get even more industry leading when the new Pinnacle contract is put in place.

 

[FightingIrish]

so eagle is in bankruptcy and just voted in a concessionary contract. Pncl is in bankruptcy and is working out there concessionary contract. We bid against the likes of mesa and gojets for flying and we are supposed to be holding out for an "industry leading" contract???? I'm all for getting what i can but it's hard to raise the bar when everyone else is going the other way. Sign a 3 year deal and let's start negotiating in 2 years when hopefully the economy is better and lots of movement is taking place and hopefully we have
more leverage.

exactly!

 

[dojetdriver]

Ditto the above. Keeping what we have, not the worst thing.

If "keeping what we have" means sticking with the CRJ CBA it's a concession for the majority of the combined pilot group. That's just a fact.

I know, I know, it's "unreasonable" for ANYBODY to think that they should have to take a concession.