ASA Vs Skywest

[John Pennekamp]

It's not just Jerry merging the list you have to worry about. What happens if/when ASA pilots go to the courts and try to force an integration? Then what? Think your SAPA reps will negotiate a good integration for you? BWAAHAHAHAHAHA.
SAPA will do what SGU tells them to do and the newbee pilots that comprise the majority of the list will go along with whatever SGU/SAPA (is there a difference?) tells them.
By the time they figure out they're going to be pulling gear for a former ASA captain for 5 years JA will be out on the golf course thinking about whether to order the steak or lobster for dinner.
SGU will do what's best for the bottom line. Plus if it does go to a single list they can get by with fewer pilots. Noone cares if the SkyWest pilots are mad. What are they gonna do? Pout? Sulk? Stomp their feet? There's no unity and no threat whatsoever presented by a non-union complacent group of pilots. SGU is likely far more concerned about ASA pilots because they will burn the house down eventually.

A buddy of mine at SkyWest who has been right in a lot of his previous predictions issued a forecast for a failed union drive followed by a DOH integration. Time will tell my friends.

I couldn't have said it better myself!

 

[Nightrain_080]

There may be a DOH integration in the future but there may not be even 1000 ASA pilots left to integrate so who &*^%ing cares. There will be fences etc.

If your too hell bent on staying at a regional then its your own fault for sticking around and worrying about your $73 hr after 10 years as a captain. Meanwhile a second year FO is making more at a Major than a 10 year captain pissing in the wind at any regional.

 

[SSDD]

You're right I don't know much about section 6 negotiations, but as I have said for a long time, you guys don't understand JA's position. Yes, he's a businessman. Yes, he cares a lot about making money. But he's not a gun for hire type manager. To him Skywest is personal. It is his pride and joy. His family legacy, if you will.

Will he fight for my job? No. But he will fight to preserve the company(Skywest Airlines) as a whole.

 

[John Pennekamp]

You're right I don't know much about section 6 negotiations, but as I have said for a long time, you guys don't understand JA's position. Yes, he's a businessman. Yes, he cares a lot about making money. But he's not a gun for hire type manager. To him Skywest is personal. It is his pride and joy. His family legacy, if you will.

Will he fight for my job? No. But he will fight to preserve the company(Skywest Airlines) as a whole.

Which is precisely why he won't reward a "burn it down" attitude on the part of the ASA pilots.

 

[vtech]

An integration will happen. It's just a matter time. Might be a year. Could be 5 years. Don't expect anything to happen until after the union drive is over.

embdrvr: Former SkyWest PDX Brasilia CA and Former member of the ALPA OC at SkyWest. An embarrassment to the majority of pilots at SkyWest. Bye DB. One could always count on you to make a Jacka$$ out of yourself, Dave. Most are glad you can no longer do it as a SkyWest pilot.

 

[~~~^~~~]

You're right I don't know much about section 6 negotiations, but as I have said for a long time, you guys don't understand JA's position. Yes, he's a businessman. Yes, he cares a lot about making money. But he's not a gun for hire type manager. To him Skywest is personal. It is his pride and joy. His family legacy, if you will.

Will he fight for my job? No. But he will fight to preserve the company(Skywest Airlines) as a whole.

SSDD: Your posts are well thought out and I like that. What I think you fail to consider is that ASA is part of (SkyWest Airlines) as a whole and ALPA is the only one able to bring a gun to the negotiating table. Comair walked and cost Delta 600 million, or in other words $355,000.00 per pilot. Mr. Atkin does not want that and neither do the ASA pilots, but, we will not sign an agreement which allow the continued pillage of our airline.

Personally, if not hired elsewhere, I will exit the profession if ASA does not get good scope language. There are many like me who have NOTHING to lose by shutting ASA down. I am pragmatic and I would not strike for $1, or $5, but seeing our airplanes with two year SkyWest Captains in my seat is a motivating force you can not come close to understanding.

ASA will be released when negotiations are truly at an impasse and when a release would likely result in an agreement. I think both sides have given all they are willing to give. Management has exceeded their "drop dead, costs above SkyWest cost box" and ALPA has dropped below industry leading. The primary unresolved section of the contract is scope.

Arguably scope is a non economic issue. The ASA pilots want SkyWest to commit to them. This is very much a quid pro quo that the NMB and people on the street can relate to. For once, ALPA is on the moral high ground. They should win for the profession that you and I both are a part of.

 

[SSDD]

ASA is part of Skywest Inc., but it is not part of Skywest Airlines. That's an crucial difference.

 

[Morning Wood]

Facts for consideration: Mr. Atkin has never been qouted saying no to a merger. ASA's contract is almost done exept for scope. ASA is nearing a release from the NMB. ASA pilots are watching airplanes that were on the ASA Certificate taxi by them on a regular basis - they are now beginning to understand the importance of scope. The best scope is OneList.

Of course he hasn’t said no to a merger. I doubt he knows right now if or when a merger will happen and he’s not dumb enough to say no and then 8 months from now have eat his words and have a bunch of pilots saying "You lied to us".

ASA has been virtually merged into SkyWest. There is clear operational integration.

What exactly has been merged? The only thing that’s happened is a bunch of airplanes shuffled from one to the other and in some cases back again.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Morning Wood - find ASA's CFO, Risk Manager, Safety Department, Marketing or Sales Departments. Most "Airlines" have these functions. All of these jobs are being performed out West.

ASA has no back office. We have Pilots, Maintenance, Crew Scheduling and Dispatch. In fact, we understand our General Offices are about to be moved to the back corner of a maintenance hangar, which is run by a SkyWest employee.

Besides, when SkyWest takes airplanes from ASA, including ALL of our firm orders, while displacing ASA employees out of those jets, I'm pretty well convinced SkyWest is to ASA what Continental was to Eastern under Lorenzo.

Mr. Atkin has been completely honest with us. He said if we were $1 cheaper SkyWest flying would come to ASA. The ASA pilots told him to pound sand and you got our jets. But I'm thinking in the end only ASA has the ability to sit at the table when the deal goes down.

We would love to have you at the table too. Come and join us in our effort to restore this profession.

 

[~~~^~~~]

ASA is part of Skywest Inc., but it is not part of Skywest Airlines. That's an crucial difference.

Says who?

 

[sweptback]

ASA is part of Skywest Inc., but it is not part of Skywest Airlines. That's an crucial difference.

The minute SkyWest Airlines started operating planes from ASA, we became part of you guys, like it or not.

Management created a scope issue where one really didn't exist. A year ago if you talked to a random ASA pilot, scope was very low on their priority list. Now it's very high, if not the highest of importance.

SkyWest dropped the ball on this one. If they intended to bleed ASA dry, they should have settled the contract without binding scope a year ago. Now, a contract without scope will most likely not pass a vote of the pilot group. Once we have scope, there will be no more transferring assets.

 

[JoeMerchant]

The minute SkyWest Airlines started operating planes from ASA, we became part of you guys, like it or not.

Management created a scope issue where one really didn't exist. A year ago if you talked to a random ASA pilot, scope was very low on their priority list. Now it's very high, if not the highest of importance.

SkyWest dropped the ball on this one. If they intended to bleed ASA dry, they should have settled the contract without binding scope a year ago. Now, a contract without scope will most likely not pass a vote of the pilot group. Once we have scope, there will be no more transferring assets.

Sweptback,

"where one really didn't exist"? What do you mean. Scope always matters if you believe in union contracts. ALPA is the one who has dropped the ball, management is doing just fine.... Maybe some of you ALPA chest thumpers need to understand scope a little better...

 

[~~~^~~~]

Sweptback - you are so right. I've typed until numb since 2000 on scope. SkyWest's management organized, motivated and educated the ASA pilots more than anything else.

Pilots are willing to invest and sacrafice for opportunity, but threats are met with organized resistance. Why airline management everywhere can not get a handle on this basic psychology amazes me.

As is, no one can organize a union like airline management can.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Sweptback - you are so right. I've typed until numb since 2000 on scope. SkyWest's management organized, motivated and educated the ASA pilots more than anything else.

Pilots are willing to invest and sacrafice for opportunity, but threats are met with organized resistance. Why airline management everywhere can not get a handle on this basic psychology amazes me.

As is, no one can organize a union like airline management can.

I agree my friend, but why can't our own union get a handle on this basic psychology. Management has the psychology figured out, and they are using it to their advantage. It is our union that has difficulty with this psychology....

 

[embdrvr]

embdrvr: Former SkyWest PDX Brasilia CA and Former member of the ALPA OC at SkyWest. An embarrassment to the majority of pilots at SkyWest. Bye DB. One could always count on you to make a Jacka$$ out of yourself, Dave. Most are glad you can no longer do it as a SkyWest pilot.

Uhhh better try again vdick

 

[homerjdispatch]

embdrvr: Former SkyWest PDX Brasilia CA and Former member of the ALPA OC at SkyWest. An embarrassment to the majority of pilots at SkyWest. Bye DB. One could always count on you to make a Jacka$$ out of yourself, Dave. Most are glad you can no longer do it as a SkyWest pilot.

Didn't DB post under his real name on these forums?

 

[rtmcfi]

embdrvr: Former SkyWest PDX Brasilia CA and Former member of the ALPA OC at SkyWest. An embarrassment to the majority of pilots at SkyWest. Bye DB. One could always count on you to make a Jacka$$ out of yourself, Dave. Most are glad you can no longer do it as a SkyWest pilot.

Making a jackass of ones self....... Good lord the irony...
The pilot that you castigate for having a mind and speaking it has the stones to use his own name on here. He does not throw stones from the shadows of an anonymous online name. Despite how you personally feel about him, DB was a pilots pilot. He was not afraid to tell it like it was.

What is this embarrassment that he seems to have caused you, (and according to you) the majority of SkyWest Pilots? Was it the fact that he pointed out management and SAPA missteps? Was it his failure to believe everything that came from SGU and SAPA? Was it the fact that he pointed out the embarrassing loopholes in the agreement between the pilots and management? I suppose I would be embarrassed if I had voted to step on the EMB drivers backs to get a pittance of a raise.


Perhaps before you make your fourth contribution to this webboard, you should search the names of the members here. You will find the name of the man you belittle. He posted a fair bit around here, and his posts were informative. He was not merely trying to out folks and cast aspersions about others anonymously.

Talk about making a jackass of yourself. It is unfortunate for the SkyWest pilot group that you identify yourself as one of them, and claim to speak for a majority of them.

 

[Morning Wood]

Morning Wood - find ASA's CFO, Risk Manager, Safety Department, Marketing or Sales Departments. Most "Airlines" have these functions. All of these jobs are being performed out West.

[/quote

SkyWest has no risk manager and the marketing and sales is done by Delta, United, and Midwest. ASA’s marketing and sales are done by Delta. You said operational integration. Marketing, sales, and risk management are not operational functions.

 

[Morning Wood]

Morning Wood - find ASA's CFO, Risk Manager, Safety Department, Marketing or Sales Departments. Most "Airlines" have these functions. All of these jobs are being performed out West.

SkyWest has no Risk Manager. There is a marketing department, but in reality all marketing and sales is done by Delta, United, and Midwest. ASA’s marketing and sales is done by Delta. Marketing and sales are not operational functions.

 

[Shobra]

Just think how far up the list he will be when they staple ASA on the bottom of SkyWest. (ouch)


My point is you never know what will happen in this industry. Do whatever you feel is best for you and within your morals.