ASA Vs Skywest

[eagle06]

I have applied to Skywest but am curious what you all think about the possibility of the two seniority lists merging. Do you think this a very real possibility within the next year? I would hate to make the jump only to a few months later be a couple hundred numbers behind what I could be.

 

[Erlanger]

The senority list will not be merged anytime soon. Possibly in the next few years when Skywest, Inc. bleeds the ASA group down to a thousand or less pilots and most of the flying has been transfered over to Skywest.

 

[John Pennekamp]

The senority list will not be merged anytime soon. Possibly in the next few years when Skywest, Inc. bleeds the ASA group down to a thousand or less pilots and most of the flying has been transfered over to Skywest.

While you're at it, can you use your crystal ball to give me this week's Lottery numbers? Thanks.

 

[scarlet]

Yeah we at ASA are going to start a single carrier petition-like that has taken place at Mesa and Freedom and Republics list of airlines...Will save millions in the general office salaries...

 

[Chairman]

Worked when Trans States tried that with Go JETS

 

[~~~^~~~]

Eagle, the bottom is the bottom, regardless. I think about the same thing at the majors where I am applying.

 

[embdrvr]

An integration will happen. It's just a matter time. Might be a year. Could be 5 years. Don't expect anything to happen until after the union drive is over.

 

[homerjdispatch]

embdrvr...What happens if/when the union drive fails?

 

[XPOO]

Homer,

Let the ASA people hold on to at least one belief. So be it, if they want to believe a Union drive will succeed at SkyWest.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Question - What if ASA/ALPA negotiates a merger and the SkyWest pilots are not represented? Wouldn't the SkyWest pilots want a seat at the table when that deal goes down?

Facts for consideration: Mr. Atkin has never been qouted saying no to a merger. ASA's contract is almost done exept for scope. ASA is nearing a release from the NMB. ASA pilots are watching airplanes that were on the ASA Certificate taxi by them on a regular basis - they are now beginning to understand the importance of scope. The best scope is OneList.

ASA has been virtually merged into SkyWest. There is clear operational integration.

Even if a compromise is reached short of OneList, expect the ASA pilots to require a commitment from SkyWest that would prevent further pillage of the ASA fleet. (So those looking to upgrade on EV and AS tail jets might want to go ahead and make other plans)

Would the ASA pilots strike to achieve their scope goals? I think they realize there is little difference between a predictable demise and a slow death. The ASA pilots are weary of the drama around here and want to get to the point where real horsetrading can be done - which is a release to strike.

IMHO - it is up to the ASA pilots and their representatives. If they cut a deal through contract negotiations that satisfies Mr. Atkin's concerns about the future cost structure of the company the SkyWest pilots are kind of along for the ride unless they have a seat at the negotiating table.

I don't know if it is at all likely and this sure isn't meant to be threatening. We all (including management) want a more stable environment.

 

[ASARJMan]

There have been only 3 or 4 700s transferred to SKYW. SKYW tried to scare ASA pilots with that, and it didn't work. Plus the cost involved finally got their attention and they stopped. We have received numerous 200s (exACA), and unfortunately a number of CMR 700s. We never had the 900s, although we were supposed to. So, you're misleading everyone by stating that.

BL "thanks for all that you do"
"Now, may I have my bonus please for my leadership"

 

[John Pennekamp]

There have been only 3 or 4 700s transferred to SKYW. SKYW tried to scare ASA pilots with that, and it didn't work. Plus the cost involved finally got their attention and they stopped. We have received numerous 200s (exACA), and unfortunately a number of CMR 700s. We never had the 900s, although we were supposed to. So, you're misleading everyone by stating that.

BL "thanks for all that you do"
"Now, may I have my bonus please for my leadership"

So I gather that since that's the only part of his post you refuted, you agree with everything else he said?

 

[ASARJMan]

So I gather that since that's the only part of his post you refuted, you agree with everything else he said?

Nope, you "gather" wrong my friend.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Nope, you "gather" wrong my friend.

Then I'll be waiting for your witty rebuttal.

 

[ASARJMan]

Then I'll be waiting for your witty rebuttal.

I belive you're aware of how I feel. If not, tough shet!

 

[John Pennekamp]

I belive you're aware of how I feel. If not, tough shet!

Really, I'm not. Let's hear it. Go ahead and refute his comments about the importance of scope.

 

[ASARJMan]

I've wrote where I will vote no unless there is scope. retro pay, and raises too, again, just for you John P!

 

[SSDD]

Fins,

You ar so far out in left field, you're not even in the park. How do you come up with these scenarios? In one sentence you say that the contract is almost done, yet on the very next one you state that you're about to get released, which indicates you're to far apart to reach an agreement.

I'm not saying that we won't merge. As a matter of fact I thought you guys should have gone for one list when the first airplane was transferred. But why would JA agree to a one list that would screw the Skywest pilots? Think about that for a second. Do you think he imagines he'll get the loyalty of the ASA guys, which he'll never have, and lose the support of a large group of Skywest pilots? A lose/lose proposition. Instead of having 1/2 the company pissed off, the whole company will be against him. Do you really think he's that stupid?

Regardless of what some people say, support for ALPA is lukewarm at best.

 

[John Pennekamp]

Fins,

You ar so far out in left field, you're not even in the park. How do you come up with these scenarios? In one sentence you say that the contract is almost done, yet on the very next one you state that you're about to get released, which indicates you're to far apart to reach an agreement.

In Fins defense, I don't think you understand the Section 6 process. In order to get a release, you need to convince the NMB that an agreement is reachable in the 30 day cooling off period. This means you must be "almost done".

I'm not saying that we won't merge. As a matter of fact I thought you guys should have gone for one list when the first airplane was transferred. But why would JA agree to a one list that would screw the Skywest pilots? Think about that for a second. Do you think he imagines he'll get the loyalty of the ASA guys, which he'll never have, and lose the support of a large group of Skywest pilots? A lose/lose proposition. Instead of having 1/2 the company pissed off, the whole company will be against him. Do you really think he's that stupid?

Regardless of what some people say, support for ALPA is lukewarm at best.

I think your logic is faulty at best. Jerry couldn't care less who likes him. Jerry cares about how he makes the most money. I think a common misconception among Skywest pilots, which contributes to the anti-alpa feelings, is that Jerry "likes you" and wants you to prosper. This is an illusion designed to boost productivity. Kind of like how Brigham Young led the "Beehive".

Jerry isn't stupid. He realizes the synergies a combined company can provide. This is why they've already combined most of our behind the scenes operations. Now they're waiting to see how the ALPA drive does there and the contract does here. The minute he feels alpa is gaining a foothold and may go through, or ASA is going to strike and rape him, he'll merge the companies and buy himself a few more years while we fight out the seniority, representation, and the contract.

The whipsaw is intentional. If we're fighting each other, we won't notice him picking our pockets.

 

[embdrvr]

Fins,
I'm not saying that we won't merge. As a matter of fact I thought you guys should have gone for one list when the first airplane was transferred. But why would JA agree to a one list that would screw the Skywest pilots? Think about that for a second. Do you think he imagines he'll get the loyalty of the ASA guys, which he'll never have, and lose the support of a large group of Skywest pilots? A lose/lose proposition. Instead of having 1/2 the company pissed off, the whole company will be against him. Do you really think he's that stupid?

It's not just Jerry merging the list you have to worry about. What happens if/when ASA pilots go to the courts and try to force an integration? Then what? Think your SAPA reps will negotiate a good integration for you? BWAAHAHAHAHAHA.
SAPA will do what SGU tells them to do and the newbee pilots that comprise the majority of the list will go along with whatever SGU/SAPA (is there a difference?) tells them.
By the time they figure out they're going to be pulling gear for a former ASA captain for 5 years JA will be out on the golf course thinking about whether to order the steak or lobster for dinner.
SGU will do what's best for the bottom line. Plus if it does go to a single list they can get by with fewer pilots. Noone cares if the SkyWest pilots are mad. What are they gonna do? Pout? Sulk? Stomp their feet? There's no unity and no threat whatsoever presented by a non-union complacent group of pilots. SGU is likely far more concerned about ASA pilots because they will burn the house down eventually.

A buddy of mine at SkyWest who has been right in a lot of his previous predictions issued a forecast for a failed union drive followed by a DOH integration. Time will tell my friends.

 

[John Pennekamp]

It's not just Jerry merging the list you have to worry about. What happens if/when ASA pilots go to the courts and try to force an integration? Then what? Think your SAPA reps will negotiate a good integration for you? BWAAHAHAHAHAHA.
SAPA will do what SGU tells them to do and the newbee pilots that comprise the majority of the list will go along with whatever SGU/SAPA (is there a difference?) tells them.
By the time they figure out they're going to be pulling gear for a former ASA captain for 5 years JA will be out on the golf course thinking about whether to order the steak or lobster for dinner.
SGU will do what's best for the bottom line. Plus if it does go to a single list they can get by with fewer pilots. Noone cares if the SkyWest pilots are mad. What are they gonna do? Pout? Sulk? Stomp their feet? There's no unity and no threat whatsoever presented by a non-union complacent group of pilots. SGU is likely far more concerned about ASA pilots because they will burn the house down eventually.

A buddy of mine at SkyWest who has been right in a lot of his previous predictions issued a forecast for a failed union drive followed by a DOH integration. Time will tell my friends.

I couldn't have said it better myself!

 

[Nightrain_080]

There may be a DOH integration in the future but there may not be even 1000 ASA pilots left to integrate so who &*^%ing cares. There will be fences etc.

If your too hell bent on staying at a regional then its your own fault for sticking around and worrying about your $73 hr after 10 years as a captain. Meanwhile a second year FO is making more at a Major than a 10 year captain pissing in the wind at any regional.

 

[SSDD]

You're right I don't know much about section 6 negotiations, but as I have said for a long time, you guys don't understand JA's position. Yes, he's a businessman. Yes, he cares a lot about making money. But he's not a gun for hire type manager. To him Skywest is personal. It is his pride and joy. His family legacy, if you will.

Will he fight for my job? No. But he will fight to preserve the company(Skywest Airlines) as a whole.

 

[John Pennekamp]

You're right I don't know much about section 6 negotiations, but as I have said for a long time, you guys don't understand JA's position. Yes, he's a businessman. Yes, he cares a lot about making money. But he's not a gun for hire type manager. To him Skywest is personal. It is his pride and joy. His family legacy, if you will.

Will he fight for my job? No. But he will fight to preserve the company(Skywest Airlines) as a whole.

Which is precisely why he won't reward a "burn it down" attitude on the part of the ASA pilots.

 

[vtech]

An integration will happen. It's just a matter time. Might be a year. Could be 5 years. Don't expect anything to happen until after the union drive is over.

embdrvr: Former SkyWest PDX Brasilia CA and Former member of the ALPA OC at SkyWest. An embarrassment to the majority of pilots at SkyWest. Bye DB. One could always count on you to make a Jacka$$ out of yourself, Dave. Most are glad you can no longer do it as a SkyWest pilot.

 

[~~~^~~~]

You're right I don't know much about section 6 negotiations, but as I have said for a long time, you guys don't understand JA's position. Yes, he's a businessman. Yes, he cares a lot about making money. But he's not a gun for hire type manager. To him Skywest is personal. It is his pride and joy. His family legacy, if you will.

Will he fight for my job? No. But he will fight to preserve the company(Skywest Airlines) as a whole.

SSDD: Your posts are well thought out and I like that. What I think you fail to consider is that ASA is part of (SkyWest Airlines) as a whole and ALPA is the only one able to bring a gun to the negotiating table. Comair walked and cost Delta 600 million, or in other words $355,000.00 per pilot. Mr. Atkin does not want that and neither do the ASA pilots, but, we will not sign an agreement which allow the continued pillage of our airline.

Personally, if not hired elsewhere, I will exit the profession if ASA does not get good scope language. There are many like me who have NOTHING to lose by shutting ASA down. I am pragmatic and I would not strike for $1, or $5, but seeing our airplanes with two year SkyWest Captains in my seat is a motivating force you can not come close to understanding.

ASA will be released when negotiations are truly at an impasse and when a release would likely result in an agreement. I think both sides have given all they are willing to give. Management has exceeded their "drop dead, costs above SkyWest cost box" and ALPA has dropped below industry leading. The primary unresolved section of the contract is scope.

Arguably scope is a non economic issue. The ASA pilots want SkyWest to commit to them. This is very much a quid pro quo that the NMB and people on the street can relate to. For once, ALPA is on the moral high ground. They should win for the profession that you and I both are a part of.

 

[SSDD]

ASA is part of Skywest Inc., but it is not part of Skywest Airlines. That's an crucial difference.

 

[Morning Wood]

Facts for consideration: Mr. Atkin has never been qouted saying no to a merger. ASA's contract is almost done exept for scope. ASA is nearing a release from the NMB. ASA pilots are watching airplanes that were on the ASA Certificate taxi by them on a regular basis - they are now beginning to understand the importance of scope. The best scope is OneList.

Of course he hasn’t said no to a merger. I doubt he knows right now if or when a merger will happen and he’s not dumb enough to say no and then 8 months from now have eat his words and have a bunch of pilots saying "You lied to us".

ASA has been virtually merged into SkyWest. There is clear operational integration.

What exactly has been merged? The only thing that’s happened is a bunch of airplanes shuffled from one to the other and in some cases back again.

 

[~~~^~~~]

Morning Wood - find ASA's CFO, Risk Manager, Safety Department, Marketing or Sales Departments. Most "Airlines" have these functions. All of these jobs are being performed out West.

ASA has no back office. We have Pilots, Maintenance, Crew Scheduling and Dispatch. In fact, we understand our General Offices are about to be moved to the back corner of a maintenance hangar, which is run by a SkyWest employee.

Besides, when SkyWest takes airplanes from ASA, including ALL of our firm orders, while displacing ASA employees out of those jets, I'm pretty well convinced SkyWest is to ASA what Continental was to Eastern under Lorenzo.

Mr. Atkin has been completely honest with us. He said if we were $1 cheaper SkyWest flying would come to ASA. The ASA pilots told him to pound sand and you got our jets. But I'm thinking in the end only ASA has the ability to sit at the table when the deal goes down.

We would love to have you at the table too. Come and join us in our effort to restore this profession.

 

[~~~^~~~]

ASA is part of Skywest Inc., but it is not part of Skywest Airlines. That's an crucial difference.

Says who?