ASA to still furlough?

[CFI2766]

50 notices go out Friday morning, January 2nd

Any notices go out this morning? I assume not as nothing has been posted, but...

 

[Speedtape]

Any notices go out this morning? I assume not as nothing has been posted, but...

No, you are safe,for now. You can worry again--when the 900's are yanked away and given back to Freedom for a second round of circle-jerking!

 

[ParrotheadGTI]

no news is good news.

hope everyone is somehow able to keep their jobs!

 

[Abernathy]

They're dragging their feet on getting the new seniority list out, so we have to wait and see where we stand in numbers right now.

I was told by a few senior captains that ASA staffs 5.5 crews per airplane--11 pilots per plane: we have 149 airplanes right now. IF we get the 10 900s (and if we really do staff 5.5 per aircraft), this spring, we will, according to this formula, need 1749 pilots. As of the last seniority list, we have 1731 pilots. Now, with people on leave, the small amount of attrition, we have less than 1731.

Without the 10 900s, we are 92 pilots fat.

Assuming we get the airplanes in Spring, I don't see a need to furlough in the way of 100+. If there does happen to be a furlough of just a few months, I'd have to guess 40-50.

 

[Snapperhead]

That formula works great; except, what if we only use 5 crews per aircraft instead of 5.5? Also, what do you think will be the staffing number if Pref Bid comes online? I can guess it will be less than 5 per aircraft IMHO.

 

[CFIT]

That formula works great; except, what if we only use 5 crews per aircraft instead of 5.5? Also, what do you think will be the staffing number if Pref Bid comes online? I can guess it will be less than 5 per aircraft IMHO.

I know you're right.

I know that Brad likes PBS, and I'm pretty sure that he'll want you guys to use AOS.

But I'm telling you that it will be a huge consession, especially in regards to you vacation language from what I have been told.

If you have a choice, say NO to AOS PBS.

IMO

 

[USCtrojan]

I know you're right.

I know that Brad likes PBS, and I'm pretty sure that he'll want you guys to use AOS.

But I'm telling you that it will be a huge consession, especially in regards to you vacation language from what I have been told.

If you have a choice, say NO to AOS PBS.

IMO

AOS isn't even being considered. As far as I know, just from the newsletters, Flightline is the front runner (Flica) because of its ease of use. My guess is whatever ASA ends up with, SkyWest will have as well.

Trojan

 

[boctal]

50 notices go out Friday morning, January 2nd

I think you need some new sources.

 

[CFI2766]

I know you're right.

I know that Brad likes PBS, and I'm pretty sure that he'll want you guys to use AOS.

But I'm telling you that it will be a huge consession, especially in regards to you vacation language from what I have been told.

If you have a choice, say NO to AOS PBS.

IMO

I'm kinda reading between the lines here, but does SKYW not have PBS? I thought they did.


In as much as there is not a great reason to go to PBS for the company unless it saves them money, read: fewer pilots, it is a safe assumption that a PBS software program will mean a need for fewer pilots at ASA. As there really is not much attrition right now, it might also be a correct statement that ASA would be close to properly staffed with the addition of the 10 900s. I'm basing this off of the lack of chatter from the company about overstaffing when the ATRs were still on property. Thus, it seems clear that an acceptance of PBS will mean an immediate need for fewer pilots.

Therefore, a vote for PBS means a vote to put ASA pilots out of a job. ASA pilots: Think about this when you vote, probably in the near future.

 

[CFI2766]

No, you are safe,for now. You can worry again--when the 900's are yanked away and given back to Freedom for a second round of circle-jerking!

SPEED, honey, lookin' good in the Avatar. I'd suggest a little more work on the traps, though. If you are gonna wear your hair in the 'Jennifer', you'll really need to bulk those up if they are going to stand out...

 

[USCtrojan]

I'm kinda reading between the lines here, but does SKYW not have PBS? I thought they did.


In as much as there is not a great reason to go to PBS for the company unless it saves them money, read: fewer pilots, it is a safe assumption that a PBS software program will mean a need for fewer pilots at ASA. As there really is not much attrition right now, it might also be a correct statement that ASA would be close to properly staffed with the addition of the 10 900s. I'm basing this off of the lack of chatter from the company about overstaffing when the ATRs were still on property. Thus, it seems clear that an acceptance of PBS will mean an immediate need for fewer pilots.

Therefore, a vote for PBS means a vote to put ASA pilots out of a job. ASA pilots: Think about this when you vote, probably in the near future.

This is a great point. No doubt the Union has this in mind. I'm assuming our Summer schedule will increase again this year, which in turn means we will need more pilots. Not saying hiring would happen, just saying the line values will go up. If ASA doesn't furlough in the coming month, I think it's safe to say ASA won't furlough, assuming nothing drastic changes (airplanes go somewhere else, etc.).

The Company doesn't want to furlough. They would have already had they wanted to. A good PBS system will make things more efficient, yes, but I believe ASA will not furlough as a result. ASA won't implement it if it results in furloughs. That's my guess anyways.

SkyWest uses AOS for their PBS system.

Trojan

 

[777forever]

I'm kinda reading between the lines here, but does SKYW not have PBS? I thought they did.


In as much as there is not a great reason to go to PBS for the company unless it saves them money, read: fewer pilots, it is a safe assumption that a PBS software program will mean a need for fewer pilots at ASA. As there really is not much attrition right now, it might also be a correct statement that ASA would be close to properly staffed with the addition of the 10 900s. I'm basing this off of the lack of chatter from the company about overstaffing when the ATRs were still on property. Thus, it seems clear that an acceptance of PBS will mean an immediate need for fewer pilots.

Therefore, a vote for PBS means a vote to put ASA pilots out of a job. ASA pilots: Think about this when you vote, probably in the near future.

How about we demand the no furlough clause extended throughout the list as ONE of our demands before voting in PBS.

I mean, we cant vote in PBS and get absolutely nothing out of it. I say we go to the table and negotiate. I we like what they have to offer us back we vote it in. If we don't, we walk....

 

[JumpersAway]

How about we demand the no furlough clause extended throughout the list as ONE of our demands before voting in PBS.

I mean, we cant vote in PBS and get absolutely nothing out of it. I say we go to the table and negotiate. I we like what they have to offer us back we vote it in. If we don't, we walk....

Great point, however, this is certainly not an official avenue for advancing such a thought. You are absolute right on thinking ahead on this, but you need to foward, via email or letter, your point to the union. That's really the only way to get your point across, and the more people that do this, the better the odds. You ought to write or talk to your union reps. They're good guys that work for you, so put them to work.

 

[CFIT]

SkyWest airlines does have PBS and while some like it many don't. It has to be as un-user friendly as possible.

Brad knows first hand of it and knows what it can do, bottom line is at first he didnt want to get it but when he saw the savings SkyWest practically paid for the program to be rewritten so it would work.

An example would be for training, the training block is put on your schedule before you get to bid. That way there is no chance of a conflict. Same thing for scheduled vacation.

From what I have "heard", and maybe I am wrong about this, but if ASA pilots have a trip that touches a scheduled vacation block you got the entire trip off with pay, is that correct?

If so, with PBS that will be gone. The vacation block will be preassigned and there will be no way that a trip could over lap.

I was a pilot rep at the time we got it, and it took years to get AOS PBS to be acceptable.

 

[bailout]

I was told by a few senior captains that ASA staffs 5.5 crews per airplane--11 pilots per plane: we have 149 airplanes right now. IF we get the 10 900s (and if we really do staff 5.5 per aircraft), this spring, we will, according to this formula, need 1749 pilots. As of the last seniority list, we have 1731 pilots. Now, with people on leave, the small amount of attrition, we have less than 1731.

Without the 10 900s, we are 92 pilots fat.

Assuming we get the airplanes in Spring, I don't see a need to furlough in the way of 100+. If there does happen to be a furlough of just a few months, I'd have to guess 40-50.

OK, what about the 20 200s that are going away?

 

[Gr82Aviate]

SkyWest airlines does have PBS and while some like it many don't. It has to be as un-user friendly as possible.

Brad knows first hand of it and knows what it can do, bottom line is at first he didnt want to get it but when he saw the savings SkyWest practically paid for the program to be rewritten so it would work.

An example would be for training, the training block is put on your schedule before you get to bid. That way there is no chance of a conflict. Same thing for scheduled vacation.

From what I have "heard", and maybe I am wrong about this, but if ASA pilots have a trip that touches a scheduled vacation block you got the entire trip off with pay, is that correct?

If so, with PBS that will be gone. The vacation block will be preassigned and there will be no way that a trip could over lap.

I was a pilot rep at the time we got it, and it took years to get AOS PBS to be acceptable.

It's still not even close to being "acceptable"!!!!

 

[CFIT]

It's still not even close to being "acceptable"!!!!

I agree, personally I think PBS is a total POS.

However, a survey was taken about 2 years ago that showed a high majority of our pilots liked PBS over the old hard paper lines of years ago.

Go figure?

 

[Gr82Aviate]

I agree, personally I think PBS is a total POS.

However, a survey was taken about 2 years ago that showed a high majority of our pilots liked PBS over the old hard paper lines of years ago.

Go figure?

Yeah, I know what the survey showed...don't understand how that's even close to possible??? Maybe it was rigged?!!!

 

[Abernathy]

OK, what about the 20 200s that are going away?

The first of 20 200s are set to go away over a year after we are supposed to get the 900s (which means we'll have all airplanes together for over one year), with the company trying to find new flying for them in the interim, which could happen if fuel stays low.

1-2 years away from today is an eternity in this industry.

Regardless, for that time in which we have all the aircraft, we'll need the appropriate number of pilots flying them--which takes away some of the incentive to furlough. Or at least lessens the severity.

 

[Plainsman]

The trips fall off if they touch your vacation, if you so choose. You still have to build back up to guarantee if you go below 75 hours. I sure don't want this option taken away from me. I have been off since the 16th of December.

 

[WMUSIGPI]

Yeah, I know what the survey showed...don't understand how that's even close to possible??? Maybe it was rigged?!!!

Maybe many of those surveyed never bid lines. All they've ever known is PBS?

 

[Flybywire44]

The trips fall off if they touch your vacation, if you so choose. You still have to build back up to guarantee if you go below 75 hours. I sure don't want this option taken away from me. I have been off since the 16th of December.

Me too, but what if it meant more planes; faster upgrade or better line?

Not that PBS would equal another award, but the Union and Mgt know we need it to be competitive and keep our 80% ATL clause.

 

[buscap]

SkyWest airlines does have PBS and while some like it many don't. It has to be as un-user friendly as possible.

Brad knows first hand of it and knows what it can do, bottom line is at first he didnt want to get it but when he saw the savings SkyWest practically paid for the program to be rewritten so it would work.

An example would be for training, the training block is put on your schedule before you get to bid. That way there is no chance of a conflict. Same thing for scheduled vacation.

From what I have "heard", and maybe I am wrong about this, but if ASA pilots have a trip that touches a scheduled vacation block you got the entire trip off with pay, is that correct?

If so, with PBS that will be gone. The vacation block will be preassigned and there will be no way that a trip could over lap.

I was a pilot rep at the time we got it, and it took years to get AOS PBS to be acceptable.

Dude, no offense, but there's no such thing as a "pilot rep" at Skywest.:laugh:

 

[CFI2766]

Me too, but what if it meant more planes; faster upgrade or better line?

Not that PBS would equal another award, but the Union and Mgt know we need it to be competitive and keep our 80% ATL clause.

Man, I wish that were the case, but I just don't see more planes, faster upgrade, or better lines (from the pilot's perspective) coming from PBS. It would, by definition, not make the company more efficient, to allow the majority of the pilots to have a better QOL.

In time, if PBS isn't agreed to in the near future, I see a choice being handed down from management. I'm afraid it will go something along the lines of accept PBS, or, there will be pay and work rule concessions forced on the pilot group in exchange for keeping the existing flying, much less acquiring any new flying.

In this context, I don't envy the job that the guys on the PBS working group have in front of them.

 

[Texx]

Me too, but what if it meant more planes; faster upgrade or better line?

Not that PBS would equal another award, but the Union and Mgt know we need it to be competitive and keep our 80% ATL clause.

Now that's funny!

 

[CFI2766]

The first of 20 200s are set to go away over a year after we are supposed to get the 900s (which means we'll have all airplanes together for over one year), with the company trying to find new flying for them in the interim, which could happen if fuel stays low.

1-2 years away from today is an eternity in this industry.

Regardless, for that time in which we have all the aircraft, we'll need the appropriate number of pilots flying them--which takes away some of the incentive to furlough. Or at least lessens the severity.

This is the best part of this deal for us, I think. Greed will soon overcome fear in the economy and there will be a recovery. Hopefully, by the time that these 200s are scheduled to go, there will either be attrition to lessen the impact of their departure, or, better yet, some sort of long term flying for them. I know, I'm stating the obvious, but I think it's an important point.

 

[Plainsman]

What do skywest pilots hate about their PBS system?

 

[WalterSobchak]

Greed will soon overcome fear in the economy and there will be a recovery.

My financial advisor tells me this is "good"...

 

[Speedtape]

SkyWest airlines does have PBS and while some like it many don't. It has to be as un-user friendly as possible.

Brad knows first hand of it and knows what it can do, bottom line is at first he didnt want to get it but when he saw the savings SkyWest practically paid for the program to be rewritten so it would work.

An example would be for training, the training block is put on your schedule before you get to bid. That way there is no chance of a conflict. Same thing for scheduled vacation.
Under the present system, you can get hosed with a conflict because if you can't get the right line, you can easily lose money that week. Of course, this could change because of the new 2 day ground school/

From what I have "heard", and maybe I am wrong about this, but if ASA pilots have a trip that touches a scheduled vacation block you got the entire trip off with pay, is that correct?
With pay? No, anything that falls outside the actual vacation footprint creates a possible reduction in guarantee or a reassignment of trips on those specific days unless you build yourself back up with other trips in the month for the time impacted outside the footprint. If managed right by the pilot, he can get extended days off for that period--but he may pay for it somewhere else(his option.) From what I understand about PBS, you can still achieve the same objective for the time off, but have to make sure you build your line up to some target on the other available days. Is this the way it works at SW?

If so, with PBS that will be gone. The vacation block will be preassigned and there will be no way that a trip could over lap.
That's my understanding. However, if a pilot wanted to extend his days off on either side of the preassigned footprint, can he do that with PBS? Of course the tradeoff is that you would have to build your line meeting some target around all those desired days off. If this is the case, then the end result could be the same under either system.

I was a pilot rep at the time we got it, and it took years to get AOS PBS to be acceptable.

Just curious, why did it take so long to get it acceptable at your property? I have friends at Comair and they have had it for years and claim they are still trying to fix it. My friends at Delta, who have had it for 3 years, say that PBS now has greater satisfaction among more pilots and that a majority would not want to go back to line bidding.

Is it the learning curve that causes dissatisfaction, especially in the beginning?

 

[Andy Neill]

What do skywest pilots hate about their PBS system?

The biggest complaint I have heard is how it blocks out training and vacation at the beginning of the process making conflicts with trips (and the dropping of those trips) unnecessary.

The year it was implemented, I would always ask the pilots about it when I was jumpseating. I didn't hear any impassioned responses one way or the other but a more ambivilent "Oh, it's OK, I suppose." Some would indicate a bad month but admitted the system gave them what they asked for. The trick was knowing how to build your preferences.

The first Christmas it was in place, some junior pilots who knew how to game the system got Christmas off while much more senior pilots were flying. They had set up three day trips on 22-24 Dec and 26-28 Dec making an added trip on Christmas illigal. The senior guys had asked for big blocks of time off either side of Christmas. When the system looked for pilots to add the Christmas trips, they were the prime targets.