ASA to still furlough?

[neecy]

You are right

Many PBS systems out there for ASA F/As we get more "credit" on paper for vacation so you only have to build a line to say 60, you can have the days off but as it is now you do not get paid for the days dropped. PBS is as good as the system as you purchase. walmart vs. High end

 

[Speedtape]

Yeah, maybe compared to paper bids. But ASA has been using online bidding for years.
True--but in the beginning, Flica was just line bidding(a month's trips in a published line.) Then later with the sorts, it was line bidding using preferences(sorts) which is a rough preferencial bidding system.

It is NOT WORTH IT if it screws with our current vacation conflict policy.
There may be ways around your concern that would preserve your option.

With a little creative bidding/swapping, I had FORTY days vacation last year with only 2 weeks off scheduled. From 14 to 40!! That is huge for me!
Well, as smart as you seem to be, you could probably make PBS work better for you than most of your competing bidders.

THAT is a deal breaker for me

You are taking the position that you and I will have a choice. Sooner or later, PBS will be here. My suggestion is we get the best system we can get and then customize it through the work rules we need to make it work for us. Hopefully, that is what this study committee is doing. But, unless we learn more, how will we know?

 

[Speedtape]

At first they would run a test and there would be failures, for legal rest requirements as an example. Then there was a problem for what SkyWest calls "stand-up" or as others call Continous Duty Overnights, at first the program couldn't tell them apart. The program had problems when only some of the crews were qualified on only the CRJ200 and some crews were current on all three types.

The true problem was that the vendor, AOS, didn't really have a good product. Which was all started because it was the cheapest one out. Now that SkyWest has spent plenty on getting it right, or at least good enough, I'm afraid that is what will be pushed on the ASA guys.

Not all PBS programs are the same, I've been told the product used at Northwest is very good but I don't know which brand it is?

Northwest was using a program called Carmen, which is what the Comair pilots use. My friends at NWA seem to be happy with it; the Comair pilots I have talked to don't like it. However, with Delta, the NWA pilots (now Delta, I guess) will use their system called Navtech. My friends at Delta say they have to use a companion program that they buy from Flightline to make Navtech user friendly enough to use. They say without the Flightline companion program, you have to almost be a programmer to make it work for you.

 

[USCtrojan]

You are taking the position that you and I will have a choice. Sooner or later, PBS will be here. My suggestion is we get the best system we can get and then customize it through the work rules we need to make it work for us. Hopefully, that is what this study committee is doing. But, unless we learn more, how will we know?

This was another great point the Capt. Rep made. He said that right now ASA is in a unique situation because we can adopt a PBS program with our COMPLETE input. Nothing being rammed down our throat. Reason being is that no matter what kind of PBS system we adopt, the most expensive, will still save the Company $$ over the long run. Which brings up another point. Once PBS is here, it will be here FOREVER. There will be no "ahh, this thing sucks, so lets get rid of it." I have complete faith in the Union researching everything there is to know about this. They've done an outstanding job of it. They're not the greatest in communication (it's getting much better), but the work they've done on this has been outstanding.

Trojan

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Yes, PBS is quite efficient. I do not have an exact number but it appears that it is a 7-10% reduction in staffing with PBS.

 

[CFI2766]

Yes, PBS is quite efficient. I do not have an exact number but it appears that it is a 7-10% reduction in staffing with PBS.

Hey committee, can we accomplish a PBS that:

1) Doesn't cause an immediate to near term need to furlough pilots at ASA. What I mean is, can it be structured so that future attrition can decrease, if necessary, the pilot ranks at ASA? This, versus we get PBS on Monday, and have pink slips for some on Friday...

2) Doesn't cause an immediate reduction in QOL? As in, we get PBS and find that the average time away from work is decreased, or, if held the same, results in a decrease in pay.

3) Is transparent enough so that there will be no question on the awards as to which seniority can hold what schedule? I fear that a PBS that system that awards a senior guy working Christmas while a junior guy gets the holiday off, with no way to research why that happened, and then, correct it with regards to seniority.

Can we do this?

 

[FORESTGUMP]

WITH ALL DUE RESPECT--TimeOut Please--Let's try and keep this discussion free of Union vs Nonunion Rhetoric. If we could allow some free flowing discussion regarding PBS with Skywest Pilots, we may be able to effect a Transfer of Knowledge about a very important issue that we are facing.

We all know how they got there with PBS. Yes, from all accounts, AOS is the worst system out there. However, if we can educate ourselves about PBS based on their experiences, maybe we can avoid pitfalls and get a much better system than AOS--maybe even the best system available today. With their participation, maybe we can get a system that will be adopted for them also. Bottom line--we may all benefit with a little help from our friends(both sides.)

Otherwise, he can remain ignorant and in the dark and be deficient in managing our resources.

Is there value in collaboration between the parties? ABSOLUTELY! Could we all benefit down the road? Certainly! PBS is coming to ASA--in a few months or in a year or so! It is in our best interest to get edumacated using all available resources! In that spirit, let's make it work and foster an evironment for a good exchange of ideas and information so we can make intelligent decisions at some point in the near future!

First order of business: I move that Utah should be at least a Co-National Champion in NCAAFB.

excellent post!

and ditto on the Utah thing.

 

[USCtrojan]

Hey committee, can we accomplish a PBS that:

1) Doesn't cause an immediate to near term need to furlough pilots at ASA. What I mean is, can it be structured so that future attrition can decrease, if necessary, the pilot ranks at ASA? This, versus we get PBS on Monday, and have pink slips for some on Friday...

2) Doesn't cause an immediate reduction in QOL? As in, we get PBS and find that the average time away from work is decreased, or, if held the same, results in a decrease in pay.

3) Is transparent enough so that there will be no question on the awards as to which seniority can hold what schedule? I fear that a PBS that system that awards a senior guy working Christmas while a junior guy gets the holiday off, with no way to research why that happened, and then, correct it with regards to seniority.

Can we do this?

Glenn,

If you look at the past ASAConnection newsletters you will see some of your answers in them. The PBS working group showed there was an INCREASE in QOL with they way the pilot group wanted to implement PBS. Of course no details. I agree with you, I will not be for any implementation of PBS if it puts pilots on the street. I don't care what the reason. I think the Company would agree that is not what ASA intends or wants. If we furlough, it would be before any PBS is implemented, and I'm certain, if implemented will have no harmful effects on anyone currently on the property. It may delay hiring for a little while, but that is not a good reason not to implement it if it saves money and is more efficient all the way around.

Trojan

 

[CFI2766]

Glenn,

If you look at the past ASAConnection newsletters you will see some of your answers in them. The PBS working group showed there was an INCREASE in QOL with they way the pilot group wanted to implement PBS. Of course no details. I agree with you, I will not be for any implementation of PBS if it puts pilots on the street. I don't care what the reason. I think the Company would agree that is not what ASA intends or wants. If we furlough, it would be before any PBS is implemented, and I'm certain, if implemented will have no harmful effects on anyone currently on the property. It may delay hiring for a little while, but that is not a good reason not to implement it if it saves money and is more efficient all the way around.

Trojan

Sounds like we are on the same page...metaphorically and electronically.

I'd like more details from the guys

 

[lonestarpilot20]

The trips fall off if they touch your vacation, if you so choose. You still have to build back up to guarantee if you go below 75 hours. I sure don't want this option taken away from me. I have been off since the 16th of December.

That's exactly my concern. One of my last vacations I had bid Sun-Wed 4 days and to drop all conflicting. I had 17 days off in a row with 21 total for the month. I am not convinced that this possible with PBS.

Plus I like seeing where the RONs are and for how long. Mainly so I know where I will be drinking and how long I have to recover