Asa Ta!

[TX_DFW]

From what i get there will be no pay for the guys who worked during those years and left recently right?

 

[av8tor4239]

Bid the crj 200 and you will get a bigger raise...

 

[arthompson]

No, the Hilldabeast is a cu*^. She will do nothing to help us. Obama, Edwards, or Biden would be excellent for us, however. Not because they care about us, but because they get tons of money by pandering to organized labor. You've gotta learn how to play the game to get what you want.


This isn't about the government taking care of all of your needs. This is about the government abiding by their own laws and processes in the RLA. The Bush administration thinks that it's ok to ignore the intent of the law, and they've appointed members to the NMB that will stick up for their buddies in corporate America. We need a President that will appoint objective members to the NMB that will adhere to the intent of the RLA.

You suddenly stop voting replublican? I hate to tell you but the likes of Biden, Obama et al. are going to be no better for labor as a whole than the current administration. While I disagree with the way certain things have been handled by airline management groups you forget that if you force them to spend to much money you'll price yourself right out of a job.

 

[PCL_128]

You suddenly stop voting replublican?

It wasn't sudden, and it's not a decision I take lightly. And if the nominee ends up being Hillary, then I'll still be voting Republican. I still agree with the Republicans on more issues than the Dems: gun control, abortion, gay marriage, tax policy, etc... However, the attack on the middle class and specifically on organized labor has gotten to the point where I believe it's necessary to compromise on these other issues in order to salvage the middle class and keep organized labor from being rendered completely impotent.

I hate to tell you but the likes of Biden, Obama et al. are going to be no better for labor as a whole than the current administration.

Sorry, but this statement demonstrates a lack of understanding as to how the system works. The NMB and the NLRB are appointed by the President. Under Democratic administrations, we've seen that the members appointed to these boards slant in a much more pro-labor direction. Under this administration, these boards have been filled with anti-labor, pro-management elitists. They view labor as a road block to success, and they'll do whatever it takes to hold us back, even if it means completely ignoring the intent of the law. The members that Biden, Obama, and others would appoint would be far more favorable towards the cause of labor.

This doesn't even take into account many of the other draconian measures that this administration has taken against labor. They tried to force through an amendment to a bill that would have declared any strike by a labor group in the transportation industry as a terrorist act. They changed the guidelines on overtime requirements that eliminated overtime pay for millions of blue-collar workers. Bush has threatened to veto any bill that provides for new negotiations to help the air traffic controllers get a new, fair agreement instead of the imposed contract that was forced on them. I could go on and on. The Democrats certainly aren't perfect in their dealings with labor, but there is no outright hostility towards labor as there is from the majority of the Republicans.

While I disagree with the way certain things have been handled by airline management groups you forget that if you force them to spend to much money you'll price yourself right out of a job.

Managements in this industry think that they can fight fare wars on the backs of labor. They think that they can cut costs from labor while continuing to engage in bad business practices that lead them to bankruptcy. Make no mistake about it, no pilot group was responsible for the financial conditions of the airlines over the past 7 years. These were problems that were created by bad business decisions from management teams. Pilots haven't come close to pricing themselves out of a job.

 

[atrdriver]

ASA has a cancellation percentage of 4.4 second only to Com Air at 5.4%. So you are near the top. In fact you are as close to the top as you can get.

Delta took over your baggage handling because your company was handling the baggage so poorly it helped win it the country's worst airline award.

Maybe you should stop posting on this website and preflight you aircraft so you can run on time today.

You can't even beat MASA and the run out of O'Hare for United, who suck. And they do it for less money, which they need to save to pay for lawyers to defend their executives who erase incriminating files off their computers along with all their porn.

Well, maybe you just don't know that DAL has ALWAYS handled ASA's bags once they were off the aircraft. DAL was ALWAYS responsible for getting them to and from each aircraft, ASA's rampers only put them on the aircraft and took them back off. So who do you think really think was responsible for ASA's horrible bag performance?

 

[Batman Fan]

ASA.

All the Delta Gate agents complain about ASA.

Want to find out the problem; look in the mirror.

 

[79%N1]

Go read your comic book.....

 

[John Pennekamp]

The reason Delta took over ATL ground ops is because they didn't want 1500 rampers walking the day they announced the changes to ASA's travel benefits.

That's a good point. In the early ramper roadshows, they came right out and said it would be good because "even with a hire date of 6/1/07 you'll still be ahead of the ASA guys after the benefits change". Then when we heard about it, they stopped saying that and backed off the statement. They knew it was coming and this was a big part of it.

 

[John Pennekamp]

You guys are pathetic! Slobbering all over yourselves for a dollar here, dollar there.

$13.5 mil "signing bonus," divided by 1700 pilots averages less than $8000 per pilot, for a 5-year struggle?! You guys are worth much more than that.

An "industry-leading contract?" Doesn't mean much when you lead the "industry" by $0.50 per hour. You guys are worth much more than that.

Which regional is the most profitable in the industry? ASA. Which airlines are having trouble recruiting qualified pilots? All of them. You guys are worth much more than that.

You guys need to grow a sack, and vote this POS down. Get a real industry-leading contract that the others will have to match to be competitive in hiring and retaining qualified pilots.

If this POS is what gets you guys all giddy, I'm VERY glad I got out when I did.

You guys are worth much more than that.

Sadly enough, the guys who negotiate/vote that in don't feel the same way.
They feel they should take little by little, let the next airline thats comming up next in negotiation get a little bit more and so on.
Right now no one is in bankruptcy, seats are full and airlines are making hand over fist cash. It's almost as if the ones negotiating feel that management should be the ones making all the money. I agree, they should be making some cash. But so should the pilots. The pilots, ramp, dispatch and scheduling are the ones to be thanked when you have a 100% completion days. Ontime performances, and luggage where it's supposed to be.
Not management. They sit in a office all day, they're not out there pushing airplanes, throwing bags or anything else.....but yet they get paid for all the work.
This "little by little" attitude doesnn't work for myself and some others.
What do we have to show for all the hardwork we do to make management "look good"? Profit sharing? Whipdeedoo! An email saying "Congrats on the 100% completion!"....Yeah, that pays the bills. Or even better yet, when you push ontime and the RIDS says ONTIME, OUTSTANDING!
Maybe you can live with being able to tell others "We have a leading industry contract" .....but when it comes down to $.90/hr and come duty rigs to be figured out......It ain't much to be proud of. I know you guys haven't had anything in the last 5yrs, just don't settle for something, just to have it.
Ball is in the Pilots court. You've already showed them who runs the airline by HAVOC....Get what you deserve.

Like I said before, neither of you work here. You didn't have to sit for 5 years, and you wouldn't have to continue the fight. Kindly butt out and don't tell us how to vote on something that's none of your affair.

Or in Flightinfo lingo, STFU!!!!

 

[John Pennekamp]

ASA.

All the Delta Gate agents complain about ASA.

Want to find out the problem; look in the mirror.

Ok, Batman, you've had your 15 minutes of flamebaiter fame. Now why don't you leave the discussion to us real pilots and go troll somewhere else.

We agree. ASA sucks. Happy?

Now, if you really have a sack, feel free to tell the pilot you're Batman next time you get on an ASA flight. We'll see if you actually get off the ground. Tool. You're the kind of customer we can afford to do without. PLEASE take your business elsewhere.

 

[ehaecker]

Batman

ASA.

All the Delta Gate agents complain about ASA.

Want to find out the problem; look in the mirror.

Yea, we pilots are the reason for lost bags and late departures. I plan my entire day around trying to be as late as possible...
YOU are a moron.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

"even with a hire date of 6/1/07 you'll still be ahead of the ASA guys after the benefits change".

Right up until they go to get on an ASA flight. Whoops.

 

[ASA DX]

Congrats guys, I know it has been a long time coming.

 

[Medeco]

All I can say is the devil's in the details.

Im not counting money or spending it till I have a week or more to review every word of this TA.

I'd ask all my fellow pilots to do the same, and not assume this fight is over.

It sure seems to me everyone is ready to throw in the towel and move on for another day. While this is understandable, it may be the wrong choice.

We need to hold judgement untill we see it in writing.

I realize that ASA is not a career airline for most and a place like Airtran is, it should be noted that they have voted down TWO TA's, this is the kinda thing we should keep in the back of our mind when reviewing our new TA.

More than likely, it will be acceptable in terms of work rules and QOL issues, but to accept 13.5 million is in my opinion "throwing in the towel"

FACT: Skywest inc. has made back the investment of 400 plus million for the purchase of ASA. The have over 700 million of unrestricted cash in the bank right now.

They achived this in under 3 years of ownership of ASA.

Medeco

 

[Well-hung Start]

All I can say is the devil's in the details.

Im not counting money or spending it till I have a week or more to review every word of this TA.

I'd ask all my fellow pilots to do the same, and not assume this fight is over.

It sure seems to me everyone is ready to throw in the towel and move on for another day. While this is understandable, it may be the wrong choice.

We need to hold judgement untill we see it in writing.

I realize that ASA is not a career airline for most and a place like Airtran is, it should be noted that they have voted down TWO TA's, this is the kinda thing we should keep in the back of our mind when reviewing our new TA.

More than likely, it will be acceptable in terms of work rules and QOL issues, but to accept 13.5 million is in my opinion "throwing in the towel"

FACT: Skywest inc. has made back the investment of 400 plus million for the purchase of ASA. The have over 700 million of unrestricted cash in the bank right now.

They achived this in under 3 years of ownership of ASA.

Medeco

'zactly right.

A "YES" vote for this TA is a huge victory for management. They wore us down exactly for this reason....

...so we would accept less......happily.

 

[79%N1]

All I can say is the devil's in the details.

Im not counting money or spending it till I have a week or more to review every word of this TA.

I'd ask all my fellow pilots to do the same, and not assume this fight is over.

It sure seems to me everyone is ready to throw in the towel and move on for another day. While this is understandable, it may be the wrong choice.

We need to hold judgement untill we see it in writing.

I realize that ASA is not a career airline for most and a place like Airtran is, it should be noted that they have voted down TWO TA's, this is the kinda thing we should keep in the back of our mind when reviewing our new TA.

More than likely, it will be acceptable in terms of work rules and QOL issues, but to accept 13.5 million is in my opinion "throwing in the towel"

FACT: Skywest inc. has made back the investment of 400 plus million for the purchase of ASA. The have over 700 million of unrestricted cash in the bank right now.

They achived this in under 3 years of ownership of ASA.

Medeco

Med...I agree with everything you said. Just remember, in a negotiation, the negotiators must give in a little here to gain a little there. I think, while the money amount may not be acceptable to you, we had to conceed a little there to gain something more important. While none of us have seen the whole TA yet, I believe we had to buy a little in other areas, and the CNC believes this amount was fair to make the gains in other areas, like scope, rates, rigs, profit sharing, and the COLA the company was NOT giving until this last session.

You mentioned AirTran. They were offered about half of that amount when they turned down the TA, so you can't compare the situations. You have no idea if 13.5 million would be acceptable to them, nor what other gains their CNC made.

Also, rememeber the price companies like Mesa and CHQ and Eagle paid for scope. Hopefully, we didn't pay any where near as dearly!

 

[Richard Gozinya]

Just remember, in a negotiation, the negotiators must give in a little here to gain a little there. I think, while the money amount may not be acceptable to you, we had to conceed a little there to gain something more important.

This is right on! If we vote yes from the git go......we validate the stall tactics that was used by both sides, yes JM I realize the first 2 years was stalling by the union, and we are so impatient we will take anything thrown our way.

Having said that, if we vote down the TA and go back to the table, the company is going to want something. Or you can look at it from the other side. WE have to give up something. From the realist side, what are we prepared to give up?

Anyone with any forethought knows this company is smart enough to allready know what that is. Yes, they want it done also. If you don't think it is easy for JA to let this go for 6 more months, you are fooling yourself.

How long do you think it will take before a tread is started polling the ASA pilots on their vote? The answer........maybe 2 weeks.

Dick Gozinya

 

[John Pennekamp]

All I can say is the devil's in the details.

Im not counting money or spending it till I have a week or more to review every word of this TA.

I'd ask all my fellow pilots to do the same, and not assume this fight is over.

It sure seems to me everyone is ready to throw in the towel and move on for another day. While this is understandable, it may be the wrong choice.

We need to hold judgement untill we see it in writing.

I realize that ASA is not a career airline for most and a place like Airtran is, it should be noted that they have voted down TWO TA's, this is the kinda thing we should keep in the back of our mind when reviewing our new TA.

More than likely, it will be acceptable in terms of work rules and QOL issues, but to accept 13.5 million is in my opinion "throwing in the towel"

FACT: Skywest inc. has made back the investment of 400 plus million for the purchase of ASA. The have over 700 million of unrestricted cash in the bank right now.

They achived this in under 3 years of ownership of ASA.

Medeco

'zactly right.

A "YES" vote for this TA is a huge victory for management. They wore us down exactly for this reason....

...so we would accept less......happily.

I'm willing to bet you both a six pack of PBR that it passes by 95% or greater.

 

[Richard Gozinya]

75% vote yes,

60% vote.

Dick Gozinya

 

[79%N1]

If only 60% of this pilot group (eligible) vote on this contract that took this long and this much fight to get...I will forever be embarrased to work here!