ASA Strike Preparedness

[regionalcap]

Realyman,
Glad to see we agree on something. Listen, I was a lot like you when we first started negotiations. I was pretty happy with our current contract. I wish you would just take the time to read some of the updates on negotiations and I think you will have a different perspective. You asked earlier what are some of the things that the company is trying to take away from us. I'll give you an example. They want to increase our time to be able to use sick leave, do away with lost block for vacations, decrease rest requirements for training and pay. Just to name a few. We have been negotiating for 2 years and have hardly even touched the bigger issues. How many years should we negotiate? There are a lot of language issues with our current contract. Are you aware that grievances filed for contract violations have increased 150% in only two years? Look at how much more Comair gets in their contract. Don't we deserve at least that? Some other carriers have things like the following: minimum 11 or 12 days off, higher guarantee, no integration, trip/duty rigs, actual reserve schedueles, 12 hour reserve callout, commuter clause, higher pay scales. I honestly hope it doesn't come down to a strike. I hope that is going to be a last resort.

 

[Sam Fisher]

... docking guarantee when you drop a trip below 75 hours,

Are you saying that if you personal drop a trip below your guarantee (75 hours), that you should still get paid 75 hours?

Sam

 

[atrdriver]

No, he's saying that if we have a line blocked to 40 hours, and we make a day for day swap, that our guarantee shouldn't be docked. We can't just drop trips, even for less pay. But lately the company has been docking pilots for swapping a 3 hour nap for a 2 hour nap, when either way we would be below guarantee, and either way our total days off doesn't change...

atrdriver

 

[sleepy]

Mary,

Is that you?

Larson? LOL!

 

[Sam Fisher]

No, he's saying that if we have a line blocked to 40 hours, and we make a day for day swap, that our guarantee shouldn't be docked. We can't just drop trips, even for less pay. But lately the company has been docking pilots for swapping a 3 hour nap for a 2 hour nap, when either way we would be below guarantee, and either way our total days off doesn't change...

atrdriver

Sorry, but it sounds to me that the company is doing the same thing that most companies do. Seems pretty straightforward. That is how it happens at XJT.

Sam

 

[atrdriver]

Sorry, but it sounds to me that the company is doing the same thing that most companies do. Seems pretty straightforward. That is how it happens at XJT.

Sam

If you are already below guarantee, and being paid guarantee, what difference does it make if you end up flying 35 or 40 hours, as long as your total days off doesn't change? We can't increase our scheduled days off without CP approval, which is something akin to an act of congress, so most of us don't see where it should make any difference to the company. Now if you are blocked to 80 hours, and swap for a trip that takes you below guarantee, then we have no problem with being docked for the difference. That actually makes a difference in how much you will get paid...

atrdriver

 

[IFLYASA]

The Mary comment really cracked me up..


I'm all for a strike if it ever got down to it. I think Chuck T. would be ousted by someone of higher power. That alone makes me smile. Personally I don't think Delta would allow us to get that far, learning from the Comair ordeal. Something probably would get resolved before then. It's just the fact that management plays theses games and it pisses me off. IF/When we get another contract, we should have all the new 50's in place and all of the growth next year established. That would make it more difficult to use as leverage from the darkside. Airplanes make money in the air, not on the ground.

Skip.....I can deal with
Drew.... I will forfeit my Christmas cookie for offers of a year supply of Ritalin

Chuck/Nelson...Have Nelson write a V1 Article on how he and Chuck ruined Pilot/Management realations. Elect Mary Jane as new V.P.

Larson..... Give her what Drew doesn't use.

 

[shamrock]

Are you saying that if you personal drop a trip below your guarantee (75 hours), that you should still get paid 75 hours?

Sam

This is something that has sprung up over the last 6 months, at least in my personal experience. If everyone was aware of it then I wouldn't have so much of a problem with it, but this just started happening (retroactively) recently and many people, myself included, were docked significant amounts of $$ as a result.

Receiving a note in your box at the end of June notifying you that you're being docked 10 hours (~$350) from the beginning of April doesn't really help to foster the "team spirit" that our esteemed leadership asks us for nor does it do much lessen the distrust they have earned over the past year or two.

And again, this is based on being blocked well below guarantee (~40 hours) where the swap is day for day and, in many cases (naps/CDOs), leg for leg.

 

[ifly4food]

Are you saying that if you personal drop a trip below your guarantee (75 hours), that you should still get paid 75 hours?

Sam

Chromer is that you?

What I'm saying is that when a pilot has a 50 hour nap line and swaps his FWA naps out for MCN naps, he shouldn't have his guarantee reduced, as you claim it should be. In fact, for the first four years of this agreement, that would not have resulted in a loss of pay. Company did one of their famous "reinterpretations" where Bill Hiers, Esq. tells them a new way to screw us by trying to make us buy back something we already own in negotiations.

What sucked even more was that the company started taking pay without warning. Pilots did something that they had been doing for four years, and suddenly got their pay docked. And we're not talking a little bit... several pilots lost in excess of $1000 from one check because they had their guarantee reduced by 20-30 hours.

That's a great way to build employee morale.

 

[Sam Fisher]

Chromer is that you?

What I'm saying is that when a pilot has a 50 hour nap line and swaps his FWA naps out for MCN naps, he shouldn't have his guarantee reduced, as you claim it should be. In fact, for the first four years of this agreement, that would not have resulted in a loss of pay. Company did one of their famous "reinterpretations" where Bill Hiers, Esq. tells them a new way to screw us by trying to make us buy back something we already own in negotiations.

What sucked even more was that the company started taking pay without warning. Pilots did something that they had been doing for four years, and suddenly got their pay docked. And we're not talking a little bit... several pilots lost in excess of $1000 from one check because they had their guarantee reduced by 20-30 hours.

That's a great way to build employee morale.

Look, if they have in fact been doing it this way for years, then you guys have a case on precedent alone, but not logic. I was merely talking about the logic inherent in this situation. If your 40 hour nap line was now an 80 hour regular line and you make a day for day trade (working same amount of days) but lose 3 hours of flying, do you still believe you should be paid 80 hours?

Sam

 

[Snapperhead]

Sam,

Ex...You are flying a nap line blocked at 40 hrs worth of flying. Since you are flying less than 75 hrs, you will be paid 75 hr guarantee. Now, you want to swap a DCA nap blocked a 3:25 min for a JAN nap blocked at 2:25 min. You will still be under 75 hrs of flying (39:00 hrs); but, the company is subtracting that one hour from your guarantee now (74:00 hrs pay). This is something they just started doing. Hope this clears things up.

 

[Sam Fisher]

Sam,

Ex...You are flying a nap line blocked at 40 hrs worth of flying. Since you are flying less than 75 hrs, you will be paid 75 hr guarantee. Now, you want to swap a DCA nap blocked a 3:25 min for a JAN nap blocked at 2:25 min. You will still be under 75 hrs of flying (39:00 hrs); but, the company is subtracting that one hour from your guarantee now (74:00 hrs pay). This is something they just started doing. Hope this clears things up.

Snapperhead,

I get it and understand it. I just think that the company's logic is sound. However, if they have been doing it the way you think it should be done for a while, and then suddenly changed, then that is just wrong and is ripe for a grievance. As I said, if you have an 80 hour line and do a day for day trade where you lose 2 hours, should you still be paid 80?

Sam

 

[IFLYASA]

If you had an 80 hour line and traded a day for day and lost 2 hours then you would get payed 78 hours, and we know that. His point is that they are reducing below our gaurantee of 75 hours. They have never doen that until recently and no one was told. Why should someone with a 45 hour nap line, who swaps day for day and flys 35 hours get paid 65, while someone who has a 30 hour nap still get paid the 75?

 

[XRMEFLYER]

If you had an 80 hour line and traded a day for day and lost 2 hours then you would get payed 78 hours, and we know that. His point is that they are reducing below our gaurantee of 75 hours. They have never doen that until recently and no one was told. Why should someone with a 45 hour nap line, who swaps day for day and flys 35 hours get paid 65, while someone who has a 30 hour nap still get paid the 75?

Why indeed? Because they can and it saves them a few bucks.

Here's a cost cutting measure that would save some REAL money and not alienate your employee group all at once. How about cutting the recurrent ground cycle from the current 4 or 5 days, depending on A/C, to 1 or 2 like some others have by Getting us "the day all hell broke loose" and the other more mundane things that we're required to view annually ahead of time on a CD to view at home or the library, for those who refuse to join the 21st century, with a discreet code that is only given after watching and maybe even taking some kind of test to demonstrate that you really were watching.

Let's see, 1600(number of pilots) x 3.75(daily RCG rate) x 40(conservative estimate of entire pilot group hourly rate) x 2(conservative estimation of number of days of recurrent ground reduced) = $480,000 of annual savings to the company.

But hey, who needs an extra half million anyway?

 

[ifly4food]

But hey, who needs an extra half million anyway?

Not the company that wasted $750 million to break a strike at CMR that would have cost them $40 million to avoid.

That's Delta. Punish the employees and break the union at any cost.

 

[701EV]

It's all about power.

They will spend millions just to keep the power!

701EV

 

[USCtrojan]

Management Vs. Labor

After seeing Bedson talk in that Ops thingamajigger whatchamakallit, I think he made it pretty clear as to what he thinks is the problem. It used to be, that the turnover rate was too high, too much training costs etc. In that OP WOT, Bedson pointed out it was labor that was killing profit. Too many people, now hanging out, instead of moving to a different airline. After his presentation, it's obvious to me that management has no vested interest in making ASA a better place to work. If what Bedson said is even partially true, management can get a higher turnover rate by lowering QOL (already substandard). I definitely feel ASA hasn't even neared its potential on what a great place it could be. The infighting needs to stop, but I don't see it happening anytime soon.