ASA Says Pilots' Demands Are Lofty

[Tomct]

Why do these people think that ASA pilots are asking for a HUGE contract? I don't see a 3-5 percent pay raise and Numerouse QOL issues HUGE. I call that "Cost of Living!" You know, gas prices, food, heat etc. Oh yeah, I forgot, that 70-100,000 dollars for flying and my 4 year degree that I needed so badly to go to the majors. Have some respect for yourselves. It is time to make a stand. Draw a line in the Sand and don't cross it! Stike Baby!

 

[sweptback]

I don't expect to get more than about a 3-5% raise, but I will vote NO on anything less than the inflation percentage (right now about 4%). Anything less is a paycut.

Technically we should have gotten a 3-4% bump every year since 2002, which will make a nice retro pay check.

I agree that this contract is more about QOL issues and tightening up the lax wording in the old one. Pay rates can be saved for another day.

 

[psysix]

From an ASA pilot on JC forums.....

atrdriver



Joined: 12 Nov 2005
Posts: 134
Location: Atlanta, GA
Posted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 9:19 am Post subject: The company wants to eliminate premium pay (underblock), which is often the only way to make any money around here. They want to drop DH pay to 50%. I don't really care about the payrates

 

[rjcap]

I don't expect to get more than about a 3-5% raise, but I will vote NO on anything less than the inflation percentage (right now about 4%). Anything less is a paycut.

Technically we should have gotten a 3-4% bump every year since 2002, which will make a nice retro pay check.

I agree that this contract is more about QOL issues and tightening up the lax wording in the old one. Pay rates can be saved for another day.

Trip and Duty Rigs !!!!!!!

Trip and Duty Rigs !!!!!!!


This is where you protect yourself from these ridiculous 3 day trips with 3 block hours.

 

[79%N1]

Trip and Duty Rigs !!!!!!!

Trip and Duty Rigs !!!!!!!


This is where you protect yourself from these ridiculous 3 day trips with 3 block hours.

CAN I GET AN AMEN!

 

[Illinois]

I do not see Skywest Inc. giving either pilot group retro pay. We (Skyw) have been working under an expired pay agreement for over a year, and SGU doesn't even want to offer the 1.2% raise we voted down a couple months ago.

 

[atrdriver]

From an ASA pilot on JC forums.....

atrdriver



Joined: 12 Nov 2005
Posts: 134
Location: Atlanta, GA
http://www.clear-and-a-million.com/templates/subSilver/images/icon_minipost_new.gifPosted: Mon Jan 02, 2006 9:19 am Post subject: http://www.clear-and-a-million.com/templates/subSilver/images/lang_english/icon_quote.gif The company wants to eliminate premium pay (underblock), which is often the only way to make any money around here. They want to drop DH pay to 50%. I don't really care about the payrates

Hey bozo. If you are going to quote me then do it right. I stated that premium pay and DH pay, plus trip and duty rigs are more important to me than the pay rates. Am I willing to take a pay cut? No I'm not. And that is what elimination of premium pay and 50% DH pay would be. Get a life, and learn to read next time.

 

[~~~^~~~]

I like how in the new memo on E-docs it says we need growth or the company will fail.

That is probably a true statement. Airlines like our keep their costs low by getting new crews and equipment to reduce overall seniority and the age (maintenance costs) of their fleet. Further, the larger the operation the less each unit has to contribute to support the fixed costs of the business.

But then what?

Go Around: You make some really excellent points.

 

[atrdriver]

Fins, that is a true statement. But SKY bought us knowing that we were in negotiations, and if they were not aware of what our negotiation position before buying us then that's their problem. They were the purchaser, and it was their responsibility to know what they were getting into. Sorry, but I don't feel too bad for their plight. I know that I haven't gotten anything more than a longecity raise in 3 years, and now they want to eliminate premium and knock DH back to 50%? I don't think so. I have said from the outset that we weren't going to get too much in the way of a pay increase, but I'm certainly not going to sit back and watch them take away what we have already fought for.

 

[shamrock]

OK, I have what might be a simple question to everyone but I'd just like some clarification.

What exactly are we talking about with regards to eliminating premium? I'm clear on what premium is, but how will things change? I do naps once in a while and shoot for premium because it's the only way to make money. That pay on top of guarantee would go away if I understand correctly. Now if I do a normal trip blocked to 20 hours but end up early on several legs and fly only 18, what will I get paid for? Will I lose the 2 hours underblock as well?

I'm not as dumb as I look, I swear. Just trying to understand how it all would work.

 

[rjcap]

One More Time.

TRIP AND DUTY RIGS !!!!

TRIP AND DUTY RIGS !!!!



OF course - no pay concessions either.

 

[IFLYASA]

OK, I have what might be a simple question to everyone but I'd just like some clarification.

What exactly are we talking about with regards to eliminating premium? I'm clear on what premium is, but how will things change? I do naps once in a while and shoot for premium because it's the only way to make money. That pay on top of guarantee would go away if I understand correctly. Now if I do a normal trip blocked to 20 hours but end up early on several legs and fly only 18, what will I get paid for? Will I lose the 2 hours underblock as well?

I'm not as dumb as I look, I swear. Just trying to understand how it all would work.

You fly a 40 hour nap line and say get 6 hours premium. Your pay will be 75 hours + 6 hours to equal 81 hours.

Now if you have an 83 hour line premium does nothing for the paycheck (if you fly a 2 hour blocked roundtrip, and do it at 1.75, your pay is 1.75 hours plus the .25 premium to bring it back to 2 hours). Regardless of cancellations you are always gauranteed the 83 hour minimum line, plus any overblock.

If they do away with premium, it just means you will only get payed 75 hours max, if you bid a line that's blocked less than 75 hours.

 

[shamrock]

If they do away with premium, it just means you will only get payed 75 hours max, if you bid a line that's blocked less than 75 hours.

Wel that'll take all the fun out of naps!

Thanks for the explanation.

 

[ReportCanoa]

Premium is the most absurd thing ever. The fact that they want to do away with is in our favor. Hopefully the CNC will "trade" premium for something else that actually helps. The only thing premium does is encourage some pilots to fly fast and waste fuel. Not very smart of ASA to negotiate in the first place. The duty/trip rig will take care of the nap people, assuming we can negotiate them.

 

[wms]

Premium is the most absurd thing ever. The fact that they want to do away with is in our favor. Hopefully the CNC will "trade" premium for something else that actually helps. The only thing premium does is encourage some pilots to fly fast and waste fuel. Not very smart of ASA to negotiate in the first place. The duty/trip rig will take care of the nap people, assuming we can negotiate them.

I'm a napper and I agree, trade premium for trip and duty rigs. Premium is incentive to waste fuel, and trip and duty rigs are incentives for scheduling not to waste our time.

 

["GO AROUND"]

I hope the CNC counter proposal slams the companies 3 yr opener! Then we will see what the companies next move is. Will it be actual negotiations or more of their BS.

I've been giving 3 yrs of concessions and I'll be da*ned if I'm gonna give up what we already have back unless it's like rigs for premium.

 

[shamrock]

I hope the CNC counter proposal slams the companies 3 yr opener!

Management: "So let us get this straight, you want a minimum of 15 days off, trip and duty rigs, an 85 hour guarantee, a 20% pay raise, AND full retro pay?"

Contract neg. committee: "Yes, that would be correct."

Mgmt: "You've got to be kidding!"

CNC: Yeah, well you started it!"

 

[Tomct]

Man Shamrock, you read my mind exactly. They better get started on printing those backpay checks though, I have a HUGE loan to pay off!
Strike Vote Now!!

 

[atrdriver]

You fly a 40 hour nap line and say get 6 hours premium. Your pay will be 75 hours + 6 hours to equal 81 hours.

Now if you have an 83 hour line premium does nothing for the paycheck (if you fly a 2 hour blocked roundtrip, and do it at 1.75, your pay is 1.75 hours plus the .25 premium to bring it back to 2 hours). Regardless of cancellations you are always gauranteed the 83 hour minimum line, plus any overblock.

If they do away with premium, it just means you will only get payed 75 hours max, if you bid a line that's blocked less than 75 hours.

That is not really a true statement. Premium is paid on a leg by leg basis, on top of guarantee. My last check I was paid 6.7 hours of premium, and 7 hours of overblock. If premium was eliminated, that would have been 6.7 hours of pay I would not have gotten, even though I was obviously over guarantee. If you take away premium pay you are going to take a paycut, period. The only way that I would agree to having premium cut is with a min day, trip and duty rigs, on a day by day calculation, not the way CMR does theirs, which is on a monthly lookback basis.

 

[IFLYASA]

That is not really a true statement. Premium is paid on a leg by leg basis, on top of guarantee. My last check I was paid 6.7 hours of premium, and 7 hours of overblock. If premium was eliminated, that would have been 6.7 hours of pay I would not have gotten, even though I was obviously over guarantee. If you take away premium pay you are going to take a paycut, period. The only way that I would agree to having premium cut is with a min day, trip and duty rigs, on a day by day calculation, not the way CMR does theirs, which is on a monthly lookback basis.

Are you sure about that?

If you are overblock, and your flight was 4 hours round trip, and do it in 3.5 hours, you are still guaranteed the 4 hour flight because it's on your final schedule. You are saying without premium, you will only get 3.5 hours. IF this is part of the plan to diminish premium, EVERY pilot would fly too slow to avoid this and the performance numbers would diminish. I think they just want to get rid of the "underblock premium", like what the nap people prosper upon.

Besides, we won't vote on that anyway, so it doesn't matter.