ASA: Ready reserve not assigned via the bucket?

[SLUF4]

I agree with 79%. I was on reserve over 4 years ago too-as an FO and now as a captain. I've got the shirt too. I think the best thing we got out of the contract as reserves was the ability to monitor the schedulers and see what they're doing. It's great calling them out on stuff when they give it out of order-which still happens a lot. But the ready reserve; they can just give that out like back in the old days to whomever whenever. It just doesn't fit with all the gains we made. But it's written in the contract this way so there's not much we can do when they assign us that.

 

[ohplease!]

suck it up and stop b1tching, right?

exactly........

 

[ILS8L]

But it's written in the contract this way so there's not much we can do when they assign us that.

Just for my own information, I wonder if that was an oversight (I didn't see it myself until I was assigned RR and re-read that part of the contract) or it was a deliberate concession?

 

[PooPooPants]

But the ready reserve; they can just give that out like back in the old days to whomever whenever. It just doesn't fit with all the gains we made. But it's written in the contract this way so there's not much we can do when they assign us that.

I'll repeat so those who think we are bitchin may finally have this sink through their thick skulls: the way they assign ready reserve makes the bucket a useless tool. They can assign whoever they want, wherever they fall within the bucket a RR assignment. We are not complaining about ready reserve. I understand it's good because it prevents extensions. But why did we fight for transparency and think we got it when the way they assign RR erases it all. To put it simply, the company found a way to manipulate that part of the contract and put one over on us.

 

[79%N1]

exactly........

No pilot left behind! Right????

 

[Av8trix616]

They're not doing too hot with the rest of the bucket system either at times. I'm reserve no pref. this month, and I just got the second trip this month that should have gone to either

a) any of the CMF guys in my bucket or
b) any of the more junior No pref. people in my bucket (all but a couple are junior to me)

At least as far as I can tell, that is- maybe I'm missing something. If you're CMF (which I usually am, just not this month), it would certainly pay to keep an eye on your fellow 'bucketeers'.

As far as RR goes, there's definitely a potential for abuse/misuse there. Call whoever you want down to the airport, then you can give them the trip that's 5 hours out from departure, or whatever. I'm not saying it happens, but there's a good-sized loophole there. I've had a lot of RR, along with the rest of you lately, though it seems all I've seen most folks get used for is taxiing planes.

-A-

 

[sweptback]

They're not doing too hot with the rest of the bucket system either at times. I'm reserve no pref. this month, and I just got the second trip this month that should have gone to either

a) any of the CMF guys in my bucket or

Then call scheduling and tell them to put it on one of these people's schedules!

b) any of the more junior No pref. people in my bucket (all but a couple are junior to me)

Read your contract... seniority has no bearing on no preference assignments.

I agree the need to keep up with the bucket, that's why reserve transparency is such a huge issue to us.

As far as RR goes, there's definitely a potential for abuse/misuse there. Call whoever you want down to the airport, then you can give them the trip that's 5 hours out from departure, or whatever. I'm not saying it happens, but there's a good-sized loophole there. I've had a lot of RR, along with the rest of you lately, though it seems all I've seen most folks get used for is taxiing planes.

That's true that your scenario would be somewhat of an abuse of ready reserve, however your initial assignment can't be past 2 hours from the end of the ready reserve time. Also, there's a financial penalty for keeping somebody on ready reserve for long then flying them (the greater of time on ready reserve + block or the duty rig).

 

[TOOL CRIB]

They're not doing too hot with the rest of the bucket system either at times. I'm reserve no pref. this month, and I just got the second trip this month that should have gone to either

a) any of the CMF guys in my bucket or
b) any of the more junior No pref. people in my bucket (all but a couple are junior to me)

No pref goes by credit hours, not by seniority. If you have the least credit hours, you get the trip. CMF goes by seniority.

 

[TOOL CRIB]

doube post oops

 

[SLUF4]

It's funny to me how people always complain about people they think are complaining. Most of the whining on this board is from people that dislike whining!

 

[Av8trix616]

No pref goes by credit hours, not by seniority. If you have the least credit hours, you get the trip. CMF goes by seniority.

Ah, you got me on that one. heh. I had to go look that one up- I'm used to being on the CMF side of the fence, and looking at my seniority as a gauge. Thanks for the (wow, speedy!) correction, all

 

[79%N1]

Its a true shame we didn't get a true seniority reserve system. What does management care, as long as the trip gets covered??? In a true system, the call would go to the most senior person in the bucket - who could then accept or pass on the trip, IF there were someone junior in the bucket. It could keep being passed down until it hits the most junior guy. If there is nobody below you, you are it. If the most senior guy wants to fly, he accepts the trip. Seniority rules in the airlines, right? This is how many, many airlines do reserve scheduling. Same would apply to ready reserves....you pass it to a more junior guy (if there is one) in your bucket, that is legal for the assignment.

No use pondering it I suppose. That ain't the way it is, but a guy can dream! MAybe next time.

 

[Speedtape]

Riiight! So, since reserve sucked for you, and others in the past, the guys doing ready reserve now have no right to ask or question the current reserve rules and/or wish the improvements that others enjoy in the new contract would apply in some way to those on reserve. That is stupid! It sucked for me 10 years ago so suck it up and stop b1tching, right? Well, I think it is a good point to wonder why the system is as messed up as it is, and why it can't be improved so all the pilots here can enjoy some improvements from waiting so long for a new contract.

And, you are FLAT out wrong about one thing. I am just starting my 7th year here, and I am on reserve as a Captain on the 200. And, NOT BY CHOICE!

1. Reserve, today, is much better than it was when I was on Reserve.

2. Anyone can bitch on this forum all they want.

3. Lineholders have plenty they could bitch about also.

4. Is this Reserve system perfect? No, and if you talk to ANY pilot at ANY other Airline, or Cargo outfit, you would get the same answer. But, No one can question that this system is an improvement over the other one!

5. Reserve pilots, most of whom DID not wait so long for a contract (because most were not here) are enjoying improvements in the contract that others who have been here for a long time committed negotiation capital to improve.

6. This Company has to run a business, and unfortunately, "RESERVE" pilots are the plug, hydraulic dampener, safety net, check valve and/or last line of defense to run this company with some degree of scheduling integrity.

7. Apparently, the Negotiation committee could not negotiate something better regarding the bucket system because the Company would not yield, because they wanted to maintain flexibility. However, overall, it has been framed up, and if this is important to the pilot group as a whole, then the structure is there to improve on next time. That is the way it works in many areas of the contract.

8. Borrowing your words, YOU are FLAT OUT WRONG if you think that the current Reserve system is not better than what we had before. ALL PILOTS committed alot of Negotiation Capital to improve this system--a system that only benefits a small percentage of the total pilot group! Is it perfect--no, that is what is being pointed out! But it is what was achieved--and it benefits reserve pilots more than what we had!

9. Finally, with all due respect, if you are on reserve as a 200 Captain, having been here 7 years, it is the result of YOUR CHOICES! Who else can you blame?

 

[Speedtape]

It's funny to me how people always complain about people they think are complaining. Most of the whining on this board is from people that dislike whining!

Yes, you are right. Color me "Pulephobic!"

 

[ILS8L]

I've had a lot of RR, along with the rest of you lately, though it seems all I've seen most folks get used for is taxiing planes.

-A-

They may "ask" you to taxi a plane, but unless it is in conjuction with a "flight" assignment I don't think you are under any obligation to do that. 13 O 7. a. specifically addresses that you must be avialable for a "flight" assignment. They have a tow team to move A/C around. "Love to help but NMJ"

 

[Av8trix616]

Hm really? I've seen guys move 3-4 aircraft per assignment lately. I've made a couple round trips myself. heh.

 

[79%N1]

Reply

1. Reserve, today, is much better than it was when I was on Reserve.

So then the ones doing it now cannot point out the troubles in the current system and hope for improvements.

2. Anyone can bitch on this forum all they want.

So why do you get on others that do.

3. Lineholders have plenty they could bitch about also.

Then let's hear it. Maybe we can push to improve it.

4. Is this Reserve system perfect? No, and if you talk to ANY pilot at ANY other Airline, or Cargo outfit, you would get the same answer. But, No one can question that this system is an improvement over the other one!

Except the rules for ready reserve don't follow the basic improvements in the contract, and they have a right to question them, and ask for improvements without all the senior lineholders jumping all over them.

5. Reserve pilots, most of whom DID not wait so long for a contract (because most were not here) are enjoying improvements in the contract that others who have been here for a long time committed negotiation capital to improve.

The Captains did. I did. The reserve rules/bucket system, etc do not bother me nearly as much as the fact that our management can win us no new flying, even as we lose a whole fleet type - and watch all the flying being awarded to Pinnacle.

6. This Company has to run a business, and unfortunately, "RESERVE" pilots are the plug, hydraulic dampener, safety net, check valve and/or last line of defense to run this company with some degree of scheduling integrity.

So no rules should apply to them. They are second rate and should just suck it up if the system is bad - like you had to.

7. Apparently, the Negotiation committee could not negotiate something better regarding the bucket system because the Company would not yield, because they wanted to maintain flexibility. However, overall, it has been framed up, and if this is important to the pilot group as a whole, then the structure is there to improve on next time. That is the way it works in many areas of the contract.

8. Borrowing your words, YOU are FLAT OUT WRONG if you think that the current Reserve system is not better than what we had before. ALL PILOTS committed alot of Negotiation Capital to improve this system--a system that only benefits a small percentage of the total pilot group! Is it perfect--no, that is what is being pointed out! But it is what was achieved--and it benefits reserve pilots more than what we had!

Agreed

9. Finally, with all due respect, if you are on reserve as a 200 Captain, having been here 7 years, it is the result of YOUR CHOICES! Who else can you blame?

I said I am 'going on 7 years', meaning been here 6, and I assure you I am not on reserve by my choice, unless you mean accepting a Captain slot. My bad! I should have known it would take so long to get a line.

Just to give you my .02

 

[Redan]

1. Reserve, today, is much better than it was when I was on Reserve.

2. Anyone can bitch on this forum all they want.

3. Lineholders have plenty they could bitch about also.

4. Is this Reserve system perfect? No, and if you talk to ANY pilot at ANY other Airline, or Cargo outfit, you would get the same answer. But, No one can question that this system is an improvement over the other one!

5. Reserve pilots, most of whom DID not wait so long for a contract (because most were not here) are enjoying improvements in the contract that others who have been here for a long time committed negotiation capital to improve.

6. This Company has to run a business, and unfortunately, "RESERVE" pilots are the plug, hydraulic dampener, safety net, check valve and/or last line of defense to run this company with some degree of scheduling integrity.

7. Apparently, the Negotiation committee could not negotiate something better regarding the bucket system because the Company would not yield, because they wanted to maintain flexibility. However, overall, it has been framed up, and if this is important to the pilot group as a whole, then the structure is there to improve on next time. That is the way it works in many areas of the contract.

8. Borrowing your words, YOU are FLAT OUT WRONG if you think that the current Reserve system is not better than what we had before. ALL PILOTS committed alot of Negotiation Capital to improve this system--a system that only benefits a small percentage of the total pilot group! Is it perfect--no, that is what is being pointed out! But it is what was achieved--and it benefits reserve pilots more than what we had!

9. Finally, with all due respect, if you are on reserve as a 200 Captain, having been here 7 years, it is the result of YOUR CHOICES! Who else can you blame?

As I approach my sixth anniversary I can't help but reflect on my THREE YEARS on reserve. That's right, half of my time here, two years as an FO under the old system and a year as Captain. As an FO it never ceased to amaze me how few captains I flew with had any idea how dramatically my life contrasted with theirs. So many had little or no time on reserve, that's right zero, none. Most had minimal appreciation for what it was like to work on reserve at a company who intentionally understaffed and let the junior pilots bear the brunt. Any attempt to describe this to them was often considered "whining." Now I see this same bloody smug-azz high-minded attitude from those same types on here just because someof us have attempted to describe a problematic situation we're faced with. Apparently you guys actually feel we don't have a right to raise an issue that's well worthy of discussion.We all really appreciate your support and understanding brother pilots...right.

Frankly I'm amazed at the commentary from some of the lofty folks like The Honorable Mr/Dr Professor Captain Oh Please Sir. How long, Mr Captain Oh Please Sir, has it been since you had reserve? How long were you on reserve? How many RRs have you had? And then there's The Honorable Mr/Dr Professor Captain Speedtape Sir. This person's comments are especially puzzling to me. You sir, apparently are convinced our new system is so vastly better. I wonder what you're basing that on Mr Captain Sir? Are you currently on reserve, sir? As someone who experienced reserve for two years as an FO under the old system and a year as captain under both, perhaps I have a fairly accurate perspective on it. Just coming off a five day stint, allow me to share: 3 days short called for RR, one short called for a low block round trip. As for whining, I constantly hear line holders bitching about airport appreciation. Try three out of four days at eight hours each of airport appreciation. Of course I got to taxi about 20 aircraft back and forth to the hangar. You'll have to forgive me for not being able to distinguish that from the old system. However, your most baffling statements are that, somehow, this is by choice. That's one of the richest points I've ever seen on this forum. If you'd like, you could attempt to explain whatever convoluted logic brought you to this conclusion...good luck. If you're going to try to claim we should have somehow seen the current situation coming, I guess your palm reader is better than everybody else's. If you think there is some way to opt out of reserve, perhaps you would share it with us.

The bottom line for me: I'm fed up with people whining that we're whining. We're simply attempting to point out an issue which needs attention. You see, my friends, discourse on an issue is the only way things get changed. As it happens, our union and company officials have recognized there is a problem and solutions are now being discussed. That is because the rank and file have brought the issue to the forefront. We are not complaining about the need for reserve or RR, we're pointing out major problems with how it's being implemented. Our points are extremely valid and it is really disappointing to see fellow pilots who can't seem to grasp this or lend their support.

 

[ohplease!]

Its been a very long time since and nearly a year total, thank you very much. I didn't enjoy enjoy it and have since made choices that didn't put me on reserve again.....plane/seat/base. once was enough for me and I was smart enough to learn from the experience.....you apparently are not as bright......sorry. whaaaaaaaa:crying::laugh:

 

[PooPooPants]

Its been a very long time since and nearly a year total, thank you very much. I didn't enjoy enjoy it and have since made choices that didn't put me on reserve again.....plane/seat/base. once was enough for me and I was smart enough to learn from the experience.....you apparently are not as bright......sorry. whaaaaaaaa:crying::laugh:

Plane/seat/base??? Hum, ATL or ATL? CRJ 200=7yrs to hold line currently, CRJ 700=8 yrs currently. But you are right about seat. I guess I could have stayed in the right seat and kept my food stamps! WHAT CHOICES???