ASA PBS = No more CDO's

[Cpt Oveur]

PBS with XJT's flights from CAL would certainly yield more productive, better pairings than what Delta restricts the CRJ-200. I would love to see what a XJT bid packet looked like. In fact, if anyone can PM that would be great...

 

[altimaklr]

We'd kill for "mostly 21-23 hour" 4 days! Big difference in 17 hours to 23. That's 24 more hours credit on four 4 day trips!!!! And we don't go ANYWHERE NEAR 750 miles on the 200 in ATL. More like 200-300 max.

Like someone else mentioned, if you want the company to pay you 8 hours for a CDO, you can't blame them for eliminating them. Same thing goes for duty rigs and min-day-pay. Pinnacle can build more efficient trips because they can use CDO's and other things that don't cost the company a fortune for a relatively small amount of flying.

 

[Nevets]

More control...and how is that Nevets? Explain...

The unitended consiquences are seen in what we are dealing with. The company is avoiding naps because of there fiscal inefficiency, and this dominos into poor overall pairing construction which effects us all. Granted, this is an oversimplified expanation but the point is that often times these rigs don't incentive to do what we want, as much as they give them an issue that they work to avoid altogether.

As for a 5 hr min day, this would be nice, but what precident is there at the regional level to support this? (sound of crickets) So then the next question is what do we have to give up in order to get it?

I don't have the time now so just go back and read my recent posting history and you will see the control I'm talking about. We have way more flexibility than you do with your PBS.

PBS with XJT's flights from CAL would certainly yield more productive, better pairings than what Delta restricts the CRJ-200. I would love to see what a XJT bid packet looked like. In fact, if anyone can PM that would be great...

Over at XJT we are starting to have the same problems now that Skywest is flying our longer routes with their 700s. Those longer flights we used to do are now being replaced by shorter routes that the 200s used to fly in the ORD/DEN/IAD system. I don't know how to PM a document that big.

 

[gator_hater]

You're obviously the only one who gets it. Your shipmates should listen up.

He's not the only one who gets it, but he is the only one that thinks the ones that don't will listen.

The fact is the guys complaining are pissed and not thinking rationally, and will not accept the fact that Delta's use of the 200 is changing. Since they won't accept that they come on here and b!tch thinking that will change everything.

 

[FL990]

I don't have the time now so just go back and read my recent posting history and you will see the control I'm talking about. We have way more flexibility than you do with your PBS.



Over at XJT we are starting to have the same problems now that Skywest is flying our longer routes with their 700s. Those longer flights we used to do are now being replaced by shorter routes that the 200s used to fly in the ORD/DEN/IAD system. I don't know how to PM a document that big.

I love how you rant in your posts about people "not educating themselves" on your system..."why don't you educate yourselves..."...etc. Then, when someone asks a question, you make them go dig for the answer! lol

To put it bluntly, I have read your posts before and knew your position...and you are wrong. You do not gain flexibility by your open time process...and in the end, the slate you start with is a preconstructed line. Mine is blank...clean! I can customize my schedule from the beginning. The only advantage you have over us in this regard is the add pay concept...which will most likely be a victim of this upcoming contract. It is a dying concept in the industry, and is already dead at the regional level, so far as I know, except for you guys...which just means you were the last to give it up...congratulations on holding the line...lets move on....

The reality is companies are putting all there eggs in the basket of avoiding paying for something that they aren't getting (ie, paying a guy 90 hrs when he actually flew 50) This is THERE definition of inefficiency.

 

[asayankee]

I love how you rant in your posts about people "not educating themselves" on your system..."why don't you educate yourselves..."...etc. Then, when someone asks a question, you make them go dig for the answer! lol

To put it bluntly, I have read your posts before and knew your position...and you are wrong. You do not gain flexibility by your open time process...and in the end, the slate you start with is a preconstructed line. Mine is blank...clean! I can customize my schedule from the beginning. The only advantage you have over us in this regard is the add pay concept...which will most likely be a victim of this upcoming contract. It is a dying concept in the industry, and is already dead at the regional level, so far as I know, except for you guys...which just means you were the last to give it up...congratulations on holding the line...lets move on....

The reality is companies are putting all there eggs in the basket of avoiding paying for something that they aren't getting (ie, paying a guy 90 hrs when he actually flew 50) This is THERE definition of inefficiency.

"THEIR" definition Champ....

 

[DYLIN]

You're right, but I think the company's hands are tied due to the ATL 200 flying they're give by Delta. Just finished a 4 day trip with NO flights over 400 miles that included a 6 leg day. When I hear of my co workers on the 70 doing ATL-MTJ or DTW-JAX and crediting 27hrs on their 4 day after overblock, a tear comes to my eyes...

It's only going to get worse as Delta restricts them permanently to short flights with no exceptions.

From a customer perspective, that's exactly how it should be. Horrendous aircraft to ride on.

 

[FL990]

Previous post deleted...

 

[cybourg10]

We average over 5 hrs a day in productivity here at XJT. All of my 4 days next month are over 23 hrs with shows after 1300 and finishes before 1700 and that is in ORD where we have smaller stage lengths like the ATL CRJ200.

 

[79%N1]

It's only going to get worse as Delta restricts them permanently to short flights with no exceptions.

From a customer perspective, that's exactly how it should be. Horrendous aircraft to ride on.

I don't give a rats a$$ what Delta does with them, but ASA can find a way to make my schedule more efficient so I'm not away from home 16-18 days a month to make min pay!

 

[crj567]

You're wrong. This is a ATL CRJ200 only issue so its obviously the short stage lengths thats screwing everything up, not PBS. These 17 hr 4 days on the jet would be 20-22 hrs on the ATR or Brasilia.

We should have gone for trip rigs in this agreement. Without something to stop them, the company can and will screw us each and every single month. Exactly as I have always warned.

Rationalize it whatever way you need to. If they run these trips through our system, we will all be trying to rationalize away that painful sensation in our buttholes.

-For a bunch of us, this will result in min days off and close to min guarantee!!!! YAAAYYY!

 

[777forever]

We average over 5 hrs a day in productivity here at XJT. All of my 4 days next month are over 23 hrs with shows after 1300 and finishes before 1700 and that is in ORD where we have smaller stage lengths like the ATL CRJ200.

The stage lengths you guys do in ORD maybe short but are nowhere near ATL CRJ200 short. Our IAD guys do the same type of flying and no problems with the pairing there as well

 

[777forever]

We should have gone for trip rigs in this agreement. Without something to stop them, the company can and will screw us each and every single month. Exactly as I have always warned.

Rationalize it whatever way you need to. If they run these trips through our system, we will all be trying to rationalize away that painful sensation in our buttholes.

-For a bunch of us, this will result in min days off and close to min guarantee!!!! YAAAYYY!

17x4=68

The credit window low is 67. Hardly anyone will get min days off. Everyone will be at min guarantee yes but if you set your personal credit threshold at 60 your schedule will be complete once you hit 67. Most should be able to get 13-15 days off.

I do agree we need trip rigs though

BTW, you learn how to bid yet?

 

[mxaviator]

17x4=68

The credit window low is 67. Hardly anyone will get min days off. Everyone will be at min guarantee yes but if you set your personal credit threshold at 60 your schedule will be complete once you hit 67. Most should be able to get 13-15 days off.

I do agree we need trip rigs though

BTW, you learn how to bid yet?

Yes the credit window is low but so are the pairing values, which is the problem. My guess is they will have to lower it more to complete schedules. Take a look at some of the pairings, it also looks like next month will allow us plenty of time to rot away in a hotel room.

 

[601Pilot]

CDOs and schedules

Yes, it looks like the company is trying to eliminate the CDOs. If you are not happy with the pairings this month (especially the lack of CDOs), please email Brad Holt and CC one of the ALPA reps with your complaint. The more people that email him the better. If he "wants" to do something about it, he can. It definitely can't hurt.

 

[Roger Dat]

Like someone else mentioned, if you want the company to pay you 8 hours for a CDO, you can't blame them for eliminating them. Same thing goes for duty rigs and min-day-pay. Pinnacle can build more efficient trips because they can use CDO's and other things that don't cost the company a fortune for a relatively small amount of flying.

Funny how the CDO's pay the most for the least amount of flying, and are always flown by the most senior folks in the company....How did that happen? Get rid of them, they suck to fly anyway, and let some of these old farts move on.....And yes they go very senior in both seats....

Or if you want really want to keep them, just take guarantee for them like we used to....

 

[sweptback]

So you pay guarantee for CDOs. You still get paid 75 hours for about 30 hours of work. Don't you think the company would be on the warpath to eliminate them as well?

It's not a PBS thing, or a duty rig thing. If there's money to be saved, the company is interested in saving it.

 

[Roger Dat]

So you pay guarantee for CDOs. You still get paid 75 hours for about 30 hours of work. Don't you think the company would be on the warpath to eliminate them as well?

It's not a PBS thing, or a duty rig thing. If there's money to be saved, the company is interested in saving it.

They might be. But before the new contract, we had a ton of CDO lines, then they shrunk, and now almost gone...

 

[sweptback]

They might be. But before the new contract, we had a ton of CDO lines, then they shrunk, and now almost gone...

We also were making money hand over fist prior to the Delta rate reset.

 

[cybourg10]

The stage lengths you guys do in ORD maybe short but are nowhere near ATL CRJ200 short. Our IAD guys do the same type of flying and no problems with the pairing there as well

No problems with IAD? I heard from an XJT union line builder that IAD average daily productivity was less than 4 hrs recently. Sounds like a problem to me and it isn't with PBS, it with your god awful pairing construction system. 60% 4 days really limits daily productivity for the group. I'll take a 23 hr 4 day over a 15 hr 3 day.