ASA PBS = No more CDO's

[probablecause]

I'm saying the pilots will vote for whatever the union sells and management will bribe the union what to sell.

+1

I was also one of the few whom voted no mainly for this reason.

 

[damnflyboy]

Don't worry. We can make it through the month with our hefty Performance Plus+ payout. No, wait...

 

[79%N1]

Line bid schedules would be just as bad! It's the pairings, not the method of bidding. We would just see all the lines pre built into 75 hrs at min days off. The solution is to get better pairings or up the min day to 5 hrs to motivate them to make better trips.

 

[FL990]

These bad pairings are not a function of PBS...they are a function of bad pairings. In other words, PBS is NOT to blame. If they wanted to make bad schedules, they would have MORE control through line bidding than with PBS. That is the universal statement that applies here that we need to remember....not matter what the problem, line bidding gives the company MORE control, NOT LESS.

Yes I am angry, but PBS is not the problem. For the last few years, the company has been dropping the line values this time of year...its nothing new. I truly feel that the company does not fully understand this system, and in the end, they are shooting themselves in the foot by doing this.

Its clear we need more input into pairing construction, but be careful what you wish for in terms of duty rigs, high min days, high trip rigs....those things are good but can have undesirable consiquences.

 

[777forever]

Ditto..

People have been bitching about me here for a while, but this is verbatim what I said would happen. I hate it, for all of us, but we are finding out what "reasonable" and "efficient" means to our company.

-We are screwed, for a very long time, unless we really grow some balls in this JCBA. We really need to face the fact that our company will never "be nice" and never learn to "play ball."

If they run this system with these pairings, we will see how pissed people can get. I say we should let it happen for a month, and everyone will be able to experience the full effect of this wonderful agreement.

You're wrong. This is a ATL CRJ200 only issue so its obviously the short stage lengths thats screwing everything up, not PBS. These 17 hr 4 days on the jet would be 20-22 hrs on the ATR or Brasilia.

 

[Cpt Oveur]

It's also due to blame that Delta's perimeter on the 50 is so short, the average stage length is about 1:19. This is a main reason the pairings are bad in such quantity...

 

[777forever]

Line bid schedules would be just as bad! It's the pairings, not the method of bidding. We would just see all the lines pre built into 75 hrs at min days off. The solution is to get better pairings or up the min day to 5 hrs to motivate them to make better trips.

You're right, but I think the company's hands are tied due to the ATL 200 flying they're give by Delta. Just finished a 4 day trip with NO flights over 400 miles that included a 6 leg day. When I hear of my co workers on the 70 doing ATL-MTJ or DTW-JAX and crediting 27hrs on their 4 day after overblock, a tear comes to my eyes...

 

[79%N1]

You're right, but I think the company's hands are tied due to the ATL 200 flying they're give by Delta. Just finished a 4 day trip with NO flights over 400 miles that included a 6 leg day. When I hear of my co workers on the 70 doing ATL-MTJ or DTW-JAX and crediting 27hrs on their 4 day after overblock, a tear comes to my eyes...

Agree 1000%. The 200 is GARBAGE!

 

[DGdaPilot]

These bad pairings are not a function of PBS...they are a function of bad pairings. In other words, PBS is NOT to blame. If they wanted to make bad schedules, they would have MORE control through line bidding than with PBS. That is the universal statement that applies here that we need to remember....not matter what the problem, line bidding gives the company MORE control, NOT LESS.

Yes I am angry, but PBS is not the problem. For the last few years, the company has been dropping the line values this time of year...its nothing new. I truly feel that the company does not fully understand this system, and in the end, they are shooting themselves in the foot by doing this.

Its clear we need more input into pairing construction, but be careful what you wish for in terms of duty rigs, high min days, high trip rigs....those things are good but can have undesirable consiquences.

You're obviously the only one who gets it. Your shipmates should listen up.

 

[Freebrd]

Fly safe

doing it, fix the pairings asa

 

[No Delay]

a year or so ago I was on the hotel van with some skywest guys....chatting about PBS. I remember the skywest guy saying, "you mark my words - everyone will be down to min days off, working 5 or 6 days in a row, all for min pay"


I even relayed this statement to the PBS committee. The response was our PBS is so much better than skywest PBS!

Well, here we are! Regardless of the reasons why...appears the skywest guys were dead on.

 

[777forever]

a year or so ago I was on the hotel van with some skywest guys....chatting about PBS. I remember the skywest guy saying, "you mark my words - everyone will be down to min days off, working 5 or 6 days in a row, all for min pay"


I even relayed this statement to the PBS committee. The response was our PBS is so much better than skywest PBS!

Well, here we are! Regardless of the reasons why...appears the skywest guys were dead on.

Everyone? I think the 700/900 and IAD 200 beg to differ

 

[FL990]

You're right, but I think the company's hands are tied due to the ATL 200 flying they're give by Delta. Just finished a 4 day trip with NO flights over 400 miles that included a 6 leg day. When I hear of my co workers on the 70 doing ATL-MTJ or DTW-JAX and crediting 27hrs on their 4 day after overblock, a tear comes to my eyes...

I think that what you are saying is correct...to a point. The stage lengths are too short to create what used to be..ie 19+ hr 3day trips or 24+ hr 4 days. Oh sure, there could be a few, but they can't consistently make them that way. We agree on that.

HOWEVER, they CAN do better than 18 hr average 4 days. Last month, there were MANY MANY more 20 hr 4day trips...and a large portion were 19 +...(this is a casual observation and is not meant to be a factual analysis of the pairings). This month, I found less than 15 4days that were valued over 20 hrs and a small amount more that were over 19 hrs. Simply put, they can do better. With this sort of crap, it will be very difficult, in my opinion, to get a valid bid solution. Even with the low credit window, people are going to have to fly alot just to get to the bottom of the window. They may run out of people before they run out of trips...lets face it, who the heck would try to get high credit when your going to cap out around 80 hrs and have to work your butt off just to get there. Nope...I think you'll find that most will be incentived, in this case, to go min credit.

I think they are making a big mistake...but just my opinion.

 

[spudskier]

Everyone? I think the 700/900 and IAD 200 beg to differ

don't know what you're flying but I'm pretty up there in iAD and flying crap worthless trips with min days off, March looks like it's mostly 4-day trips (probably in violation of the TA) with more worthless crap trips. there might be 5 lines of 4-days and about 10 of 2-days, the rest are all low block 4-day trips.

 

[altimaklr]

Complain as much as you want, but this is not due to PBS.

It is due to Delta. The same thing has happened this year at Pinnacle, and already has been normal for Comair. At Pinnacle, 26-29 hour 4-day trips were normal, now it's mostly 21-23 hours.

Delta keeps spreading flying out on the 200 while at the same time limiting the stage length to <750NM. It's very difficult to create legal and practical trips out of theses flights.

 

[Nevets]

These bad pairings are not a function of PBS...they are a function of bad pairings. In other words, PBS is NOT to blame. If they wanted to make bad schedules, they would have MORE control through line bidding than with PBS. That is the universal statement that applies here that we need to remember....not matter what the problem, line bidding gives the company MORE control, NOT LESS.

Yes I am angry, but PBS is not the problem. For the last few years, the company has been dropping the line values this time of year...its nothing new. I truly feel that the company does not fully understand this system, and in the end, they are shooting themselves in the foot by doing this.

Its clear we need more input into pairing construction, but be careful what you wish for in terms of duty rigs, high min days, high trip rigs....those things are good but can have undesirable consiquences.

That is NOT a universal statement. At XJT, the pilots have more control over their lines than you guys do with your PBS.

What are the unintended consequences you allude to?

 

[IFLYASA]

Don't worry. We can make it through the month with our hefty Performance Plus+ payout. No, wait...

No more profit sharing...ASA is taking the losses form Expressjet and combining this with out profits. This will result in little or no profit. Bye Bye Performance Plus payouts.

 

[79%N1]

Complain as much as you want, but this is not due to PBS.

It is due to Delta. The same thing has happened this year at Pinnacle, and already has been normal for Comair. At Pinnacle, 26-29 hour 4-day trips were normal, now it's mostly 21-23 hours.

Delta keeps spreading flying out on the 200 while at the same time limiting the stage length to <750NM. It's very difficult to create legal and practical trips out of theses flights.

We'd kill for "mostly 21-23 hour" 4 days! Big difference in 17 hours to 23. That's 24 more hours credit on four 4 day trips!!!! And we don't go ANYWHERE NEAR 750 miles on the 200 in ATL. More like 200-300 max.

 

[Nevets]

No more profit sharing...ASA is taking the losses form Expressjet and combining this with out profits. This will result in little or no profit. Bye Bye Performance Plus payouts.

What was ASA's profit last quarter? And what was Skywest's profit last quarter? Also keep in mind that Skywest didn't buy XJT until Nov 12.

 

[FL990]

That is NOT a universal statement. At XJT, the pilots have more control over their lines than you guys do with your PBS.

What are the unintended consequences you allude to?

More control...and how is that Nevets? Explain...

The unitended consiquences are seen in what we are dealing with. The company is avoiding naps because of there fiscal inefficiency, and this dominos into poor overall pairing construction which effects us all. Granted, this is an oversimplified expanation but the point is that often times these rigs don't incentive to do what we want, as much as they give them an issue that they work to avoid altogether.

As for a 5 hr min day, this would be nice, but what precident is there at the regional level to support this? (sound of crickets) So then the next question is what do we have to give up in order to get it?