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ASA PBS is.......

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ohplease! said:
They've had nearly a year (if not far longer) to "get it right" and FLICA is paid to do the programing and testing (I can only assume they are professionals and know what they are doing). Testing and running the results need only take minutes unless FLICA is working on a Commador 64. Hell, my phone could crunch those numbers in minutes. All of this on again/off again BS with PBS is just that, BS. Here we are just a little more than a week from going live with this thing and the last practice hasn't been published...and we're supposed to get one more practice before bidding?....here's a little note for the fella's in the alpa office; if you're not going to fly a line, at least get this fixed so that those of us who do won't get screwed! and I'm sure you guy's will do the least amount you have to do.
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Completely uninformed post. Takes ignorance to a whole new level. Call an ALPA rep to get an idea of the thought and action process behind these practice bids. Report back and let us know if you feel the same way
 
ohplease! said:
They've had nearly a year (if not far longer) to "get it right" and FLICA is paid to do the programing and testing (I can only assume they are professionals and know what they are doing). Testing and running the results need only take minutes unless FLICA is working on a Commador 64. Hell, my phone could crunch those numbers in minutes. All of this on again/off again BS with PBS is just that, BS. Here we are just a little more than a week from going live with this thing and the last practice hasn't been published...and we're supposed to get one more practice before bidding?....here's a little note for the fella's in the alpa office; if you're not going to fly a line, at least get this fixed so that those of us who do won't get screwed! and I'm sure you guy's will do the least amount you have to do.
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Jeez did Santa piss in your stocking?
 
ohplease! said:
All out of patience! Our alpa boys have nobody's interests in mind but their own....and don't give me the "but their volunteering their time and giving up their QOL to help us out" BS.... time for these chumps to go.
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Amen! Agree 110%
 
've done basic programming before in school, and another job. In complex processes it requires programming, testing, more programming, more testing, and more programming in a continued cycle, until it's right. It's not like starting up your car or using a remote control--where the hard work or programming has already been done for you.
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Good for you.

I write software (web applications) for my second career and want to reiterate this point.

Developing automated systems is an iterative process where you discover problems with each new deployment. Each of these practice bids have been trial runs of the system too...not just of your bid. No doubt with each one issues have been discovered that take time to deal with and correct before going live.

Of course, some of you would never be pleased no matter what happened...but at least have the sense to acknowledge that custom software development can in a best case scenario (which is never reasonable to expect at an airline) only give you two of three things:

- correct
- rapid development
- inexpensive

I'm guessing we aren't getting inexpensive OR rapid...so at least we can hope it'll be done correctly.
 
johnpeace said:
Good for you.

I write software (web applications) for my second career and want to reiterate this point.

Developing automated systems is an iterative process where you discover problems with each new deployment. Each of these practice bids have been trial runs of the system too...not just of your bid. No doubt with each one issues have been discovered that take time to deal with and correct before going live.

Of course, some of you would never be pleased no matter what happened...but at least have the sense to acknowledge that custom software development can in a best case scenario (which is never reasonable to expect at an airline) only give you two of three things:

- correct
- rapid development
- inexpensive

I'm guessing we aren't getting inexpensive OR rapid...so at least we can hope it'll be done correctly.
Click to expand...

Even more of a reason to dump it, too expensive! we need to be more mesa like so we can get more flying!!! (sarcasm) I'll vote no 'till your practice, (PLAY), bids are over and the company gives you the high hard one with pbs. Good luck homeboys, SOME of you deserve less. Merry Christmas
 
johnpeace said:
Good for you.

I write software (web applications) for my second career and want to reiterate this point.

Developing automated systems is an iterative process where you discover problems with each new deployment. Each of these practice bids have been trial runs of the system too...not just of your bid. No doubt with each one issues have been discovered that take time to deal with and correct before going live.

Of course, some of you would never be pleased no matter what happened...but at least have the sense to acknowledge that custom software development can in a best case scenario (which is never reasonable to expect at an airline) only give you two of three things:

- correct
- rapid development
- inexpensive

I'm guessing we aren't getting inexpensive OR rapid...so at least we can hope it'll be done correctly.
Click to expand...
I don't have to have done any programing before to know that its very tedious. You are completely missing the point...

The point is: late last year it was "the first of 2010", then "spring", then "summer", then "fall", then "oops! now there's no hurry, its been benched indefinitely", all of a sudden now its "oh, we're going live in Jan. for Feb. lines and we'll have 4 practice bids"....

well, oops is right! WE go live in less than 2 weeks with a system that we have seen operate ONCE! AND the best response anyone can give is "well, its a tedious process that needs a lot of tweaking to get it to work and they're running and tweaking and running and tweaking and running and tweaking...(should I go on or is that tedious enough?)....to get 'the best result'". SERIOUSLY?!?

The point is: this train has been on the track for well over a year. There is no reasonable excuse for there to be a need this late in the process to still be tweaking things for a "better result"....

Someone needs to delay this until they have ADEQUATE time to tweak this thing RIGHT.
 
ohplease! said:
I don't have to have done any programing before to know that its very tedious. You are completely missing the point...

The point is: late last year it was "the first of 2010", then "spring", then "summer", then "fall", then "oops! now there's no hurry, its been benched indefinitely", all of a sudden now its "oh, we're going live in Jan. for Feb. lines and we'll have 4 practice bids"....

well, oops is right! WE go live in less than 2 weeks with a system that we have seen operate ONCE! AND the best response anyone can give is "well, its a tedious process that needs a lot of tweaking to get it to work and they're running and tweaking and running and tweaking and running and tweaking...(should I go on or is that tedious enough?)....to get 'the best result'". SERIOUSLY?!?

The point is: this train has been on the track for well over a year. There is no reasonable excuse for there to be a need this late in the process to still be tweaking things for a "better result"....

Someone needs to delay this until they have ADEQUATE time to tweak this thing RIGHT.
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It's always the guys screaming the loudest that are all of a sudden quiet when you ask them if they've run for office or did any volunteer work at all. Ohplease! is talking like he knows all the behind the scenes action and that everyone is slacking. Ohplease! needs to change his name to Child Please! If you think you can do better, run for office and let us know how you going to get things done.
 
777forever said:
It's always the guys screaming the loudest that are all of a sudden quiet when you ask them if they've run for office or did any volunteer work at all. Ohplease! is talking like he knows all the behind the scenes action and that everyone is slacking. Ohplease! needs to change his name to Child Please! If you think you can do better, run for office and let us know how you going to get things done.
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typical response. when confronted with facts, try to distract from the real issue and point a finger or call a name...

to answer your question,yes I have and yes I have and no I have very little idea about the behind the scenes activites at OUR alpa office. I'm too busy flying a line.... Although I've been on vacation since before Thanksgiving (no chance in doing that again next year).....I can only go by the "facts" as presented to me by alpa reps that are working directly on/with the PBS thing. Get over you whiny feelings....Nobody EVER said everybody was slacking...Just that SOMEBODY needs to step in and put a halt to this until it is right.
 
The point is: late last year it was "the first of 2010", then "spring", then "summer", then "fall", then "oops! now there's no hurry, its been benched indefinitely", all of a sudden now its "oh, we're going live in Jan. for Feb. lines and we'll have 4 practice bids"....
Click to expand...

This is a timeline/release description for almost every large project I have ever been involved in.

That ALPA/ASA/Flightline have wound up in the same situation is not at all surprising to me.

Someone needs to delay this until they have ADEQUATE time to tweak this thing RIGHT.
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That's probably not a bad idea...I'll bet political pressures from within management and ALPA are going to force it live before it's ready.
 
well, I bid naps.... had errors on both practice awards.... all alpa people I spoke to said "we know about it, and are trying to work to fix it", but yet it has not been fixed...

well, when it is fixed, then it can go live... we've waited almost a year... why in God's name is there such a rush right now? i can't imagine it will take longer than 30 days to fix all these issues... can I have a single ALPA guy explain to me why they don't move this to March instead of february to get these things fixed..... is skywest/asa gonna close the doors if we dont go live in january for february schedules?
 
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777forever said:
It's always the guys screaming the loudest that are all of a sudden quiet when you ask them if they've run for office or did any volunteer work at all. Ohplease! is talking like he knows all the behind the scenes action and that everyone is slacking. Ohplease! needs to change his name to Child Please! If you think you can do better, run for office and let us know how you going to get things done.
Click to expand...

You are such a clown. This old "you never did any volunteer work, so you don't count" line... Really? Are you serious?

-Do you have any idea how much B.S. that weak-ass line is? Personally, I am not involved, and not going to get involved until I have more faith that our leadership is actually going to do something to help us, rather than provide incessant justifications, rationalizations, and excuses for mgmt. to screw us at each and every turn.

-Maybe XJET will make some much-needed changes, and we will have an organization I can believe in once again. At that point, maybe I will volunteer for something, but I damn sure am not about to volunteer to aid any organization which pretty much does mgmt's job for them. If I wanted to work for mgmt., I would. And I wouldn't have to "volunteer" to do so.
 
crj567 said:
You are such a clown. This old "you never did any volunteer work, so you don't count" line... Really? Are you serious?

-Do you have any idea how much B.S. that weak-ass line is? Personally, I am not involved, and not going to get involved until I have more faith that our leadership is actually going to do something to help us, rather than provide incessant justifications, rationalizations, and excuses for mgmt. to screw us at each and every turn.

-Maybe XJET will make some much-needed changes, and we will have an organization I can believe in once again. At that point, maybe I will volunteer for something, but I damn sure am not about to volunteer to aid any organization which pretty much does mgmt's job for them. If I wanted to work for mgmt., I would. And I wouldn't have to "volunteer" to do so.
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Awesome. Enjoy spending the rest of your career whining and complaining. Sounds like a great lifestyle to me! Haha
 
Why do I have to call a rep to find out what is going on? Do they really want 1700 of us calling asking the same questions and having the same conversation 1700 times? Maybe we need to.

Why not just keep us informed instead?

And I have volunteered many times to help out. I too am tired of the "Have you volunteered" argument. Us volunteers are usually told "we don't need the help".
 
why dont we have signs all over the lounge protesting this abomination.... if they want to do this.. fine.. we voted for it.... but NO way should this thing be live for the january Bid
 

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