ASA PBS is.......

[777forever]

is awful. Paycut for all, oh goodie.

Or NOT...big raise for me, and even bigger increase on QOL.

 

[NotTooBad]

is awful. Paycut for all, oh goodie.

For me it was not pay cut at all. It is in fact increase in QOL and a pay increase in vacation months. I really do not see why anyone could view this software as a negative since they took care of the vacation issue. The proof that they took care of the vacation issue is that myself and multiple others achieved more time off through PBS than we did with conventional bidding - while making more money in vacation months.

It results in more hard lines (less guys on reserve). The new opentime systems allows more versatility for trip manipulation. There is less opentime so it *may* fix the red arrow day issue. I think we can all agree there is no other opportunity for relief in sight. Min days off still applies so low blocked trips would - well do the same thing that has been done to us for the past year - 11 or 12 days off per month.

The only complaint to be had is regarding reserve lines and how they award the call out times.

 

[LazyLightnin']

I’m glad that the PBS schedules are looking promising. However it probably is a little early to start celebrating. Not only for the previous stated reason of participation level in the practice bids but for several other variables. First there is a good possibility that the company may change the way that pairings are built in order to make you more available such as very low block pairings. Also the company may consider us very overstaffed for PBS right now. It may be some time before they can right size us to the level that they want. I’ll wait at least a year before I start celebrating.

An educated response. Finally.

 

[dojetdriver]

75 hours. With PBS you can not get a schedule less than 75 hours. The only way you can do that is if you start dropping stuff after the final awards.

Impressive, that is if when the PBS goes live and EVERYBODY that bids max conflict/time off is able to secure it.

 

[johnpeace]

...
I was highly opposed to PBS during the last contract, but I've been turned. I think it's going to work out well.

I'm also having a hard time believing that the company understood what it agreed to.

I bet they find a way to tweak it so that it sucks.

 

[Nevets]

For me it was not pay cut at all. It is in fact increase in QOL and a pay increase in vacation months. I really do not see why anyone could view this software as a negative since they took care of the vacation issue. The proof that they took care of the vacation issue is that myself and multiple others achieved more time off through PBS than we did with conventional bidding - while making more money in vacation months.

But now we won't be competitive and we will not get new flying. The likes of gojets TSA and Skywest will get any additional flying. In fact we must remain at least the second lowest for DAL so we may start losing flying!

It results in more hard lines (less guys on reserve). The new opentime systems allows more versatility for trip manipulation. There is less opentime so it *may* fix the red arrow day issue.

At XJT, we see open time as a good thing. Thats another thing we dont like about PBS.

 

[Edct]

They had me at NO MORE INTEGRATION

 

[OCP]

But now we won't be competitive and we will not get new flying. The likes of gojets TSA and Skywest will get any additional flying. In fact we must remain at least the second lowest for DAL so we may start losing flying!



At XJT, we see open time as a good thing. Thats another thing we dont like about PBS.

You look at it as a good thing because you can change the crap you didn't want into something more tolerable. What if you got what you wanted at the start? There will still be open time. EVERY airline that has PBS still has some open time, just not the crazy amount that we have now.

 

[Nevets]

You look at it as a good thing because you can change the crap you didn't want into something more tolerable. What if you got what you wanted at the start? There will still be open time. EVERY airline that has PBS still has some open time, just not the crazy amount that we have now.

I may like what I got today but tomorrow circumstances may change that necessitates me wanting something else. I like that flexibility. Its helped me out countless times when stuff comes up. I like the crazy amount. More to chose from if I ever need to look at it.

 

[79%N1]

Big difference already between XJT and ASA already, we hardly have any open time that is made available because they save it for reserves. What is available is rarely able to be swapped for because red arrow days prohibit it, and we have to get it approved to swap in a 12 hour window. If that program applies to XJT after the merge, you won't be so excited about open time any longer, either.

 

[LazyLightnin']

Big difference already between XJT and ASA already, we hardly have any open time that is made available because they save it for reserves. What is available is rarely able to be swapped for because red arrow days prohibit it, and we have to get it approved to swap in a 12 hour window. If that program applies to XJT after the merge, you won't be so excited about open time any longer, either.

Disagree. I polish a turd of a line every month by swapping out almost every single four-day with something else in open time.

Open time is your friend. Unless you're the company.

 

[dojetdriver]

In my example the pay credit was 66hrs

Thanks, so just to clarify, the guy was gonna get paid for 75 hrs but he dropped some flying off his schedule to 66?

What if you got what you wanted at the start? There will still be open time. EVERY airline that has PBS still has some open time, just not the crazy amount that we have now.

And what if a pilot's juniority and PBS he STILL doesn't get what he wants, and there's NO open time of trade for?

Now cue the argument "well, he's junior so tough titties". But that cancels out the argument you posted above.

The system that Nevets and I currently work under, and senior pilot can bid the line he wants, and get it. The junior pilot may not get the line he wants, but with the open time there's enough for him to change that.

 

[johnpeace]

Open time is your friend. Unless you're the company.

Or the reserve guy who has to cover the trips nobody else wants...with two hours notice.

 

[Nevets]

Big difference already between XJT and ASA already, we hardly have any open time that is made available because they save it for reserves. What is available is rarely able to be swapped for because red arrow days prohibit it, and we have to get it approved to swap in a 12 hour window. If that program applies to XJT after the merge, you won't be so excited about open time any longer, either.

You assume the combined company will have this "red arrows" thing and this "12 hour window." If that program applies to XJT after the merge, I would guess many XJT pilots will be voting no. But just a guess from a line pilot.

Or the reserve guy who has to cover the trips nobody else wants...with two hours notice.

At XJT, reserves have the ability to list themselves as will call or no preference. If you are will call, you get called first. Presumably the ones who don't list themselves as will call rather not fly and vice versa. Also, reserves have what is called an aggressive pickup window in which they can pick up a trip in open time. Both of these contract provisions makes it more likely that a reserve that doesn't want to fly, doesn't.

 

[79%N1]

You assume the combined company will have this "red arrows" thing and this "12 hour window." If that program applies to XJT after the merge, I would guess many XJT pilots will be voting no. But just a guess from a line pilot.

Good point. I just imagine if ASA management was willing for us to work under these provisions, we would have them now also. But, they didn't want to relinquish that much control. Of course, everything is negotiated and I imagine we gave up this type of system to gain other things.

At XJT, reserves have the ability to list themselves as will call or no preference. If you are will call, you get called first. Presumably the ones who don't list themselves as will call rather not fly and vice versa. Also, reserves have what is called an aggressive pickup window in which they can pick up a trip in open time. Both of these contract provisions makes it more likely that a reserve that doesn't want to fly, doesn't.

We have a similar system here, call me first. However, the company can skip a call me first if he is first in the bucket and the assingment would take him/her over 75 hrs. Assignments really are given out in order of block hours to try to keep everyone even. Ergo, call me first just gets you to 75 hrs fastest. We, however, cannot pick up open time as reserves at ASA.

Side note. You guys at XJT must have a TREMENDOUS AMOUNT of open time over there! Seems like every guy drops all his trips on his bid award and all pick up open time. I wonder why they don't build more lines with all that open time.

 

[dojetdriver]

Side note. You guys at XJT must have a TREMENDOUS AMOUNT of open time over there! Seems like every guy drops all his trips on his bid award and all pick up open time. I wonder why they don't build more lines with all that open time.

Well, for now in IAH, total CA open time between now and Dec. 31st shows 59 total open pairings, ORD is 32, EWR is 22, CLE is 18. Bear in mind, less than half the month left. During the initial line improvement window, it's in the hundreds.

Sure, they could build more lines, but there's a thing called the line divisor that has to be complied with, as well as the block hours that determine how many lines are built.

 

[COOPERVANE]

Well, for now in IAH, total CA open time between now and Dec. 31st shows 59 total open pairings, ORD is 32, EWR is 22, CLE is 18. Bear in mind, less than half the month left. During the initial line improvement window, it's in the hundreds.

Sure, they could build more lines, but there's a thing called the line divisor that has to be complied with, as well as the block hours that determine how many lines are built.

IMPERATIVE that we insist on a mix of types of trips, and a limitation on how many reserve lines are built.

Currently we have NOTHING that prohibits the company from building 10 hard lines and putting the remainder of the pilot group on reserve.
We are currently running about 30% on 200 reserves. We STILL don't have enough reserves. They call everybody in for a round trip and extend, extend, extend....

 

[dojetdriver]

IMPERATIVE that we insist on a mix of types of trips, and a limitation on how many reserve lines are built.

Currently we have NOTHING that prohibits the company from building 10 hard lines and putting the remainder of the pilot group on reserve.
We are currently running about 30% on 200 reserves. We STILL don't have enough reserves. They call everybody in for a round trip and extend, extend, extend....

XJT currently has a min reserve level, but no maximum either. In ORD for a while we had about 45% of the pilots on reserve but now it's back down. Total BS. But dare I say, the operation has become loser to being "properly staffed" as the amount of reasignments and rolled days has lessened. At least when the weather is good and there's no reason for it anyway.

 

[Speedtape]

IMPERATIVE that we insist on a mix of types of trips, and a limitation on how many reserve lines are built.
There is already a mix of trips. Even if the pilots had complete control, you would find that one size does not fit all. There should never be a limitation on the number of Reserve lines. The need can change month to month, under our current system. If there are not Reserves to cover the trips, and you hold a Regular line, do you want to get extended at the end of your trip or junior-manned on you day off. Limit the Reserves, it is guaranteed to happen.

Currently we have NOTHING that prohibits the company from building 10 hard lines and putting the remainder of the pilot group on reserve.
No contracual limit exists, because there is no reason. Financially, it would be a disaster for them to schedule like you suggest. Ideally, it would be most advantageous for them to cover the flying, building as many lines as possible to guarantee or greater. That is impossible, but PBS will give them the next best thing. Ideally, Reserves would not be necessary at all if no one ever called in sick, needed leaves, quit, and there were no IROPS. But, that is not reality. Reserves are needed for those events to guarantee schedule integrity (high completion factor). Under PBS, less Reserves will be needed because those are the events that they will be used for. Open time will be near to none, thus requiring less staffing for Reserves.
We are currently running about 30% on 200 reserves. We STILL don't have enough reserves. They call everybody in for a round trip and extend, extend, extend....

The percentage changes every month, under current processes. I am not sure if it is 30%, but certainly in the mid 20's. December will always have the highest Reserves, even with PBS, because sick calls go through the roof, due to flu season and people who are adverse to working on holidays. 30% Reserves on the CR2/ATL would be about 120 Captains and 120 F/O's. Is it really that high?

 

[centralpilot]

Thanks, so just to clarify, the guy was gonna get paid for 75 hrs but he dropped some flying off his schedule to 66?

If using the vacation low option, the target line value is 75 hours. However, the bottom of the credit window is 65 hours. If the system gets to the end of your bid sheet and hasn't hit 75 hours, but is above the minimum 65, your schedule is complete and you still get paid the minimum 75 hours of pay. The trick is to build your bid sheet so that you get awarded just enough credit to reach the bottom of the window (65 hrs - 28 hrs vacation = 37 hours), but conflicts prevent the system from awarding anything else before the end of the bid sheet. You've got to use a second bid sheet to make sure "all remaining pairings" isn't on the first one.