ASA Outsourcing

[ASApuppy]

Anyone else see all this flights cancelled from ASA and then reassigned a 9xxx number and flown by another carrier. Now I'm fully aware that it's all Delta flying, but when its assigned to us and its on our schedule, I considerr that OURS. Does not our section 1 scope prevent this. If we let this continue on a daily basis, I believe we are opening Pandora's box. For an example of what I'm talking about, look up ATL-OKC today. ASA had 3 CR2 flights cancelled and 3 new flights at the same exact time added and flown by SKW. WTF Over??? We are way beyond our mx issues. Is this an effort by St George to justify our furloughs and prevent them from happening at SKY?

 

[TOOL CRIB]

In three words or less, no

 

[viper548]

Skywest has 5 200's in ATL covering ASA flying

 

[flyboyzz1]

prob still SKW birds still out there. They prob didn't know how long the snafu was going to last.

 

[urflyingme?!]

OH give it a rest.

 

[SpauldingSmails]

Anyone else see all this flights cancelled from ASA and then reassigned a 9xxx number and flown by another carrier. Now I'm fully aware that it's all Delta flying, but when its assigned to us and its on our schedule, I considerr that OURS.

Bing Bing Bing!!! That's Delta's flying... go grab a boroscope and get crackin'!

 

[Metro752]

Can I have a chocolate flavored boroscope, please?

 

[dispatchguy]

Well, looking at a couple of the canceled ASA flights, they are still being coded to the maintenance issue of a couple of days ago.

And it is ASA flying if and only if it is coded as ASA flying in a public flight schedule - under an ASA code, but since it is coded as DL flying, we can give it to anyone who is capable of running the flying.

I'm just happy that SKW is able to run the flying, as I commute to one of the affected cities.

 

[JoeMerchant]

Anyone else see all this flights cancelled from ASA and then reassigned a 9xxx number and flown by another carrier. Now I'm fully aware that it's all Delta flying, but when its assigned to us and its on our schedule, I considerr that OURS. Does not our section 1 scope prevent this. If we let this continue on a daily basis, I believe we are opening Pandora's box. For an example of what I'm talking about, look up ATL-OKC today. ASA had 3 CR2 flights cancelled and 3 new flights at the same exact time added and flown by SKW. WTF Over??? We are way beyond our mx issues. Is this an effort by St George to justify our furloughs and prevent them from happening at SKY?

The simple answer is NO. According to YOUR union, you do not "own" this flying....It is all "owned" by DALPA....of course they don't have access to it either....Welcome to the Pandora's Box.....

 

[crjskipper]

are you serious??? they are stepping in to help us since we cancelled almost 300 flights and you are asking that!?! puppy you make me sick. guess what, if we dont hit 95 percent this month, we have bigger problems.

talk about not being able to see the forrest for the trees. simply sad we work for the same company. we dont have airplanes! who should do it???

 

[COOPERVANE]

I'd like to say thanks to Skywest for the help

 

[ASApuppy]

are you serious??? they are stepping in to help us since we cancelled almost 300 flights and you are asking that!?! puppy you make me sick. guess what, if we dont hit 95 percent this month, we have bigger problems.

talk about not being able to see the forrest for the trees. simply sad we work for the same company. we dont have airplanes! who should do it???

Actually you have it completely friggen wrong mr skipper. These flights that I'm talking about are being cancelled ahead of time and have been long before this boroscope "reinspection". Hey guess what buddy, it goes against us. We still cancelled a flight. The fact that you don't get that makes me sick! I had OKC cancelled several weeks ago and was run by SKY. Just like the SKY guy said, they have 5 aircraft here to do flying that is in the schedule to be done by us. Why stop at 5, heck let SKY go out to the desert and pick up a hundred CRJ's and move them into ATL while ASA furloughs all of us. If we were on strike, this would be hands down, no question, scab work. But, if we are not on strike, its ok? Seriously people!

 

[ASApuppy]

I'd like to say thanks to Skywest for the help

I'd like to say, if you want to operate it like one airline, then MAKE IT ONE AIRLINE!

 

[jegermeister]

Puppy,

Sorry to say it's Delta flying and you're just a contractor. So long as ASA meets its operational goals set by its contract, your job is secure. So long as the requirements for that contract meet the objectives of the next contract (ie does Delta want EMB 175's) you should be fine. I'm not trying to be a smart @ss but, as long as you work for a company that is selling to the lowest bidder, you're only along for the ride.

 

[Beergut]

Anyone else see all this flights cancelled from ASA and then reassigned a 9xxx number and flown by another carrier. Now I'm fully aware that it's all Delta flying, but when its assigned to us and its on our schedule, I considerr that OURS. Does not our section 1 scope prevent this. If we let this continue on a daily basis, I believe we are opening Pandora's box. For an example of what I'm talking about, look up ATL-OKC today. ASA had 3 CR2 flights cancelled and 3 new flights at the same exact time added and flown by SKW. WTF Over??? We are way beyond our mx issues. Is this an effort by St George to justify our furloughs and prevent them from happening at SKY?

It's my understanding that we were already short of a/c due to ramp damage and unavailable parts before the grounding SNAFU ever happened. Skywest was covering for us. I wouldn't get too worried just yet.

 

[Speedtape]

Incidentally, ASA covered some of the "Delta" flights that were impacted by the MD-88 grounding.

Good goes around!

 

[Speedtape]

The simple answer is NO. According to YOUR union, you do not "own" this flying....It is all "owned" by DALPA....of course they don't have access to it either....Welcome to the Pandora's Box.....

Actually, the flying belongs to Delta, Inc., the holding company(broker) that now wholly owns Delta Airlines, NorthWest Airlines, Comair, Compass, and Mesaba. The same company that contracts with ASA, Mesa, Republic, and Skywest.

 

[urflyingme?!]

I was down there and was worried about some BAD BAD blood while walking through the terminal. After some initial stares from my ASA cousins everyone (IE the ASA crews we were shuttling on each flight) was pretty cool after I said hello. T

hey did not help with belts, but apparently that's a SkyWest deal! Just kiddin.

 

[WalterSobchak]

Prior to the grounding, SKW already had a couple of CRJ2's in ATL to cover ASA flying impacted by A/C shortage due to ramp damage.

The way I understand it (and I could be a little off on certain details), because ASA was not sure exactly how long the groundings were going to last, they pre-canceled a certain amount of flying on certain routes so that other DL Conx carriers would be able to commit x amount of A/C and y amount of crews for a definite amount of time for the sake of logistics planning.

While I can't speak to your contract or the long term affects of doing something like this... I can say that this was very quickly put together for the sake of maintaining a certain level operational integrity and passenger movement...not with any kind of malicious intent toward any particular pilot group.

The DL Connection carriers already, at the request of Mother Delta, check with each other's OCC's prior to canceling a ATL/CVG based trip in the event another DCI carrier can cover the flying. I know ASA has covered SKW a time or two when SKW had a CRJ9 go MX in an outstation and they were able to operate the flight with a spare CRJ2 and reserve crew.

 

[Dubya]

Prior to the grounding, SKW already had a couple of CRJ2's in ATL to cover ASA flying impacted by A/C shortage due to ramp damage.

The way I understand it (and I could be a little off on certain details), because ASA was not sure exactly how long the groundings were going to last, they pre-canceled a certain amount of flying on certain routes so that other DL Conx carriers would be able to commit x amount of A/C and y amount of crews for a definite amount of time for the sake of logistics planning.

While I can't speak to your contract or the long term affects of doing something like this... I can say that this was very quickly put together for the sake of maintaining a certain level operational integrity and passenger movement...not with any kind of malicious intent toward any particular pilot group.

The DL Connection carriers already, at the request of Mother Delta, check with each other's OCC's prior to canceling a ATL/CVG based trip in the event another DCI carrier can cover the flying. I know ASA has covered SKW a time or two when SKW had a CRJ9 go MX in an outstation and they were able to operate the flight with a spare CRJ2 and reserve crew.

Ahhh, fer cryin' in the mud Walter. You and your common sense. Just when I could see this thread descending into the fifth layer of FI regional bashing hell, you come along with your mother flipping common sense and practical analysis. Sheesh.

Quick, somebody get some flammable material and throw it.

I know, Mesa sucks!.

That's all I got.

W

 

[JoeMerchant]

Actually, the flying belongs to Delta, Inc., the holding company(broker) that now wholly owns Delta Airlines, NorthWest Airlines, Comair, Compass, and Mesaba. The same company that contracts with ASA, Mesa, Republic, and Skywest.

I agree with that....I was just posting the position of ALPA....I don't share it.....In the eyes of ALPA, this flying belongs to the Delta pilots through their section 1...

I have no problem with Skywest covering this flying...We are the same corporation....I was simplying pointing out the absurdity of ALPA protesting this on a scope basis...

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Quick, somebody get some flammable material and throw it.

So can we safely label SKW pilots as scabs for flying these trips? I bet Walter and XPOO dispatched some of these flights too. You scab dispatchers!!!!!!!!


Who cares if somebody covered our asses while we were down and out on the mat. We pitched in to help Delta when their 88's were grounded.

More importantly though is the 95% number that Skipper mentioned earlier. If we don't pull our collective asses together, we'll never make it to Dec 2010 to see how we are cost wise.

 

[WalterSobchak]

I bet Walter and XPOO dispatched some of these flights too. You scab dispatchers!!!!!!!!

I did, indeed...and I have a new respect for our counterparts at ASQ because of it.

Let it be noted that it means the world to me that I've finally been labeled a "scab" on FI! I waited 2 yearsfor this...I was starting to feel left behind.

Also, Mesa sucks.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

How have you guys been? Haven't chatted with you all in awhile. :beer:

 

[Speedtape]

Prior to the grounding, SKW already had a couple of CRJ2's in ATL to cover ASA flying impacted by A/C shortage due to ramp damage.

The way I understand it (and I could be a little off on certain details), because ASA was not sure exactly how long the groundings were going to last, they pre-canceled a certain amount of flying on certain routes so that other DL Conx carriers would be able to commit x amount of A/C and y amount of crews for a definite amount of time for the sake of logistics planning.

While I can't speak to your contract or the long term affects of doing something like this... I can say that this was very quickly put together for the sake of maintaining a certain level operational integrity and passenger movement...not with any kind of malicious intent toward any particular pilot group.

The DL Connection carriers already, at the request of Mother Delta, check with each other's OCC's prior to canceling a ATL/CVG based trip in the event another DCI carrier can cover the flying. I know ASA has covered SKW a time or two when SKW had a CRJ9 go MX in an outstation and they were able to operate the flight with a spare CRJ2 and reserve crew.

Sounds like Operational Integration! If it quacks like a duck, and it looks like a duck then it must be a.........!

 

[Speedtape]

I agree with that....I was just posting the position of ALPA....I don't share it.....In the eyes of ALPA, this flying belongs to the Delta pilots through their section 1...

I have no problem with Skywest covering this flying...We are the same corporation....I was simplying pointing out the absurdity of ALPA protesting this on a scope basis...

If anyone knows it, I am sure you do. I was not rebutting you, just hammering home the obvious! As the Campaigner and now the President says, there are somethings we can all agree on!

 

[WalterSobchak]

How have you guys been? Haven't chatted with you all in awhile. :beer:

I can't speak for XPOO, but I've been working hard to keep your ilk outta trouble, of course. Well, that and spending far too little time in Texas and/or drinking my beloved Shiner Bock and far too much time running from the Mormon fuzz.

Hope things are going well out there...

 

[crj567]

So can we safely label SKW pilots as scabs for flying these trips? I bet Walter and XPOO dispatched some of these flights too. You scab dispatchers!!!!!!!!


Who cares if somebody covered our asses while we were down and out on the mat. We pitched in to help Delta when their 88's were grounded.

More importantly though is the 95% number that Skipper mentioned earlier. If we don't pull our collective asses together, we'll never make it to Dec 2010 to see how we are cost wise.

Let's consider this 95% number... Would it really be that difficult to hit, operationally? We should have all our planes back up real soon, and we should be able to accomplish that, shouldn't we?

-Also, I never have figured out a clear answer to what counts in that 95%.... What if Delta initiates the cancellation-for some reason beyond our control?

 

[ASApuppy]

To all, allow me to reiterate my post.

To start off, I'm not arguing that it's not Delta Inc's flying. It is. They want it covered. I get that. I also get the huge impact that cancelling all those flights for the boroscope issue. That was done in 2 days. My issue is that the "Help" from SYW is going beyond our problem. Allow me to point you to the facts that concern me. If you go to OURASA and look at the Realtime report, it shows 17 flights cancelled by OCC. All these flights are then rescheduled with different flight numbers and assigned to SKW. Check Delta.com for proof. Then go look up the Flow board and you will find a dozen or so CR2's with no flight assignments from mid morning til the late push. Most of these cancelled flights could be accomadated with our own equipment. If the real reason for our need of help is "Crew Shortage", then that ought to boil your blood. I've heard the likes of our upper management say when the announced our furlough that Skywest was "even fatter" on pilots. It is absolutely not right that our pilots remain on the streets while flying from our schedule is performed by another carrier. Now, another side to this is our completion factor. SH in RGT said that there are 2 numbers that matter. First is the adjusted for Wx/ATC and the other is RAW. The Raw is what we popped last month(<95%). That is the number that Mesa busted and cried foul to DAL when DAL asked them to cancel. The transfer of these flights each day to SKW is coming off of our Raw score. We are sitting at 93.5% today as I write this. As Walter said, this has been going on for weeks now.
This, to me, smells like a rat and that is why I brought it up. If someone could show me that SKW completing one of our flights does not effect our score, or that our score really doesn't matter, then I'm all ears. We have a contract with Delta to do a certain amount of flying. Using false pretenses to transfer that flying away is a very dangerous situation for us at ASA.

 

[WalterSobchak]

As Walter said, this has been going on for weeks now.

Whoa, Nelly...let me clarify.

Over the course of the CRJ2 grounding...I understand the reasoning for these being charlie-xrayed is because other DCI carriers committed to do the flying for a certain amount of time. I believe everyone, in an attempt to err on the side of caution, planned for a few days and each carrier committed to such. Kinda hard to change the plan last minute as more aircraft came online faster than expected. The damage was done...so the other DCI carriers operated as planned.

As far as the flights that have "been going on for weeks"...those flights would still be showing as a cancel for ASA even if there was no one was providing coverage thanks to an aircraft shortage at ASA due to damage. It is not a matter of crews...it's a matter of aircraft. All that is happening is SKW is covering lines...mainly SBN/OKC/MLI trips since they are cities already in our C070...for the sake of passenger movement. The important thing here is...either way, there would be a cancel on the books for ASA.

Sidenote: A quick glance at today's plot shows that we are back down to two CRJ2's covering lines in ATL...and those may be possibly coming out of the ATL system soon in the next couple days.