ASA Negotiations

[Crash Pad]

I think I am finding that neither party in the negotiating process at ASA has anything to gain by getting this contract done.

The Union team works 4 days a month and gets paid full time. While I like to believe that they are really grinding it out on non-negotiating days I think we all know a thing or two about pilot work ethic.

The company has zero incentive because they get cheaper pilots.

Any economist will tell you that with the right incentive package you can create any behavior you like. I think the package we have has created a permanent negotiation.

 

[ACL65PILOT]

Talk to the CNC. I think that they would beg to differ on them only working four days a month. Quite the opposite. Many of them miss flying and want to return to the line. They have not flown in four years, some missing upgrade and and increase in pay. They want a contract that is good for this pilot group, and are sacrificing for that. Most hate that this has gone so long.

 

[atlcrashpad]

The Company has everything to gain by draggin' der feets... Cheaper rates and continued contract violations.... Bouyyyyyyyy...

 

[ohplease!]

I think I am finding that neither party in the negotiating process at ASA has anything to gain by getting this contract done.

The Union team works 4 days a month and gets paid full time. While I like to believe that they are really grinding it out on non-negotiating days I think we all know a thing or two about pilot work ethic.

The company has zero incentive because they get cheaper pilots.

Any economist will tell you that with the right incentive package you can create any behavior you like. I think the package we have has created a permanent negotiation.

oops! You're done...now the alpa Nazi's are gonna end your career by not hiring you anywhere thats worth working (and we all know thats either a legacy carrier or ups/fedex... ).We also all know that "they" do ALL the hiring at ALL the worthwhile places...um, yeeaaah! They'll also question your manhood and physically threaten you, although they'll never come out from behind the computer screen to actually do anything about it.

But seriously, I would have to argue that they work much more than you might think. While I don't necessarily agree with all their positions and I do believe things could have been completed by now, I think they're doing an admirable job.

Anyway, welcome to the dark side.

 

[WWEfan]

The Union team works 4 days a month and gets paid full time. While I like to believe that they are really grinding it out on non-negotiating days I think we all know a thing or two about pilot work ethic.

This post sure speaks volumes about your own work ethic.

 

[ifly4food]

I think I am finding that neither party in the negotiating process at ASA has anything to gain by getting this contract done.

The Union team works 4 days a month and gets paid full time. While I like to believe that they are really grinding it out on non-negotiating days I think we all know a thing or two about pilot work ethic.

The company has zero incentive because they get cheaper pilots.

Any economist will tell you that with the right incentive package you can create any behavior you like. I think the package we have has created a permanent negotiation.

You're speaking from an extremely ignorant standpoint. You clearly have never spent a month in the ALPA office.

I personally invite you to shadow the CNC for the next month. I promise you that they spend more time in the office than you realize, and even if they recieve more days off then you do (jealous?), they earn it.

You know how to reach me. Give me a call if you decide to put your money where your mouth is.

W. Faruzzi

 

[ifly4food]

oops! You're done...now the alpa Nazi's are gonna end your career by not hiring you anywhere thats worth working (and we all know thats either a legacy carrier or ups/fedex... ).We also all know that "they" do ALL the hiring at ALL the worthwhile places...um, yeeaaah! They'll also question your manhood and physically threaten you, although they'll never come out from behind the computer screen to actually do anything about it.

AG, you are kidding, right? Blackballing people? Physically threatening people? Never come out from hiding? Oh please!

But seriously, I would have to argue that they work much more than you might think. While I don't necessarily agree with all their positions and I do believe things could have been completed by now, I think they're doing an admirable job.

Anyway, welcome to the dark side.

Good to hear your support for the CNC. It is a frustrating, thankless job that they soldier on at, despite having done it almost three years longer than they expected.

W. Faruzzi

 

[~~~^~~~]

The problem is the railway labor act and the fact that ASA pilots are a minority of Delta Connection block hours these days. We don't have nearly the negotiating power we should have if the system was fair.

These days when a failure of a CEO gets pushed out of the job with a $210 million dollar severance package while job cuts leave proud companies like Home Depot mere echos of the service that made them successful has got to end. We all like to celebrate the deal makers, but at the end of the day it is the loyal worker who gets things done.

The RLA should be lifted. Employees should have the right to withdraw their services at will.

 

[ohplease!]

AG, you are kidding, right? Blackballing people? Physically threatening people? Never come out from hiding? Oh please!



Good to hear your support for the CNC. It is a frustrating, thankless job that they soldier on at, despite having done it almost three years longer than they expected.

W. Faruzzi

yes, I am kidding...sort of. I (and others) have had many threats of both types from idiots on this board and others. There may be half a dozen people willing to "out" themselves here. I don't understand everyones hesitance to let others know who they are, if you really believe what you're saying. Sometimes its just entertaining to say things to certain individuals just to watch them "spiral out of control".

I've never NOT supported the CNC, although I have disagreed with their positions on SOME issues. I suppose I should have gotten involved sooner with alpa here at ASA but, its funny now to see how the "insiders" try to keep those of us with different opinions out of the "club". Its subtle but obvious at the same time.

 

[ohplease!]

The problem is the railway labor act and the fact that ASA pilots are a minority of Delta Connection block hours these days. We don't have nearly the negotiating power we should have if the system was fair.

These days when a failure of a CEO gets pushed out of the job with a $210 million dollar severance package while job cuts leave proud companies like Home Depot mere echos of the service that made them successful has got to end. We all like to celebrate the deal makers, but at the end of the day it is the loyal worker who gets things done.

The RLA should be lifted. Employees should have the right to withdraw their services at will.

the RLA is half the problem. The other half is the inherent conflict of interest alpa has between mainline and regional. There is NO WAY alpa can bargain in good faith for both of us. Never mind the other regionals that negotiate contracts below ours for growth. Thats nothing compared to mainline alpa negotiating rates lower the ours ( a frikin' regional) on A/C they have proven they don't want any part of flying. How is our CNC supposed to be successful with that "help" from alpa national?

 

[~~~^~~~]

True....

 

[Crash Pad]

I know what the company is doing for the next couple of months... Laughing all the way to the bank.

I know what the pilot group is doing the next couple of months... Grinding out 95 hour lines with 400 hours away from home.

I'm not too sure what the ALPA negotiating team is doing... I'm sure they are really grinding it out sitting by the phone waiting for the mediator to call.

Like I said no one at the table has any incentive to get this done.

 

[Crash Pad]

I should also say I don't blame you guys. It is like being the head of ALPA or CEO of an airline.... I'm just jealous I didn't figure out how to get a job that cherry.

Enjoy the time off. Lord knows we will be busting our humps to pay for it!

 

[AMANSWORLD]

It is about time ASA pilots stop picking up up open time, start calling in sick and yes set a day to walk out. Our union is apparently not effective and the company is going to continue in its way. And yes this would be a job action, guess what this place is not all that good to work here anyway.

 

[ifly4food]

I know what the company is doing for the next couple of months... Laughing all the way to the bank.

I know what the pilot group is doing the next couple of months... Grinding out 95 hour lines with 400 hours away from home.

I'm not too sure what the ALPA negotiating team is doing... I'm sure they are really grinding it out sitting by the phone waiting for the mediator to call.

Like I said no one at the table has any incentive to get this done.

I should also say I don't blame you guys. It is like being the head of ALPA or CEO of an airline.... I'm just jealous I didn't figure out how to get a job that cherry.

Enjoy the time off. Lord knows we will be busting our humps to pay for it!

I think you need to put your money where your mouth is and quit being Mr Internet Tough Guy, hurling insults at hardworking VOLUNTEERS while hiding behind an anonymous screen name.

When you're ready to see what the CNC and your hardworking UNPAID VOLUNTEER alpa reps really do all day, give me a call. I'll be happy to find you a position.

W. Faruzzi

 

[PCL_128]

I think you need to put your money where your mouth is and quit being Mr Internet Tough Guy, hurling insults at hardworking VOLUNTEERS while hiding behind an anonymous screen name.

When you're ready to see what the CNC and your hardworking UNPAID VOLUNTEER alpa reps really do all day, give me a call. I'll be happy to find you a position.

W. Faruzzi

Don't hold your breath, Will. Guys like this are perfectly content to sit in front of their computer screen and attack the volunteers that are fighting for them, but they'll never step up to do anything themselves. It's actually quite ridiculous. They attack the volunteers by saying that they don't do anything, but at the same time, they won't volunteer because they don't want to have to do any actual work. If these internet tough-guys actually believed the crap they spew about ALPA volunteers not doing anything and still collecting a full pay check, then they'd be jumping at the opportunity to get on that bandwagon.

 

[Palerider957]

I think part of the frustration is the pilot group hasn't had anything to review/vote on for the length of negotiations. Maybe there hasn't been anything worth voting on, but pilots don't feel like they are a part of the process.

 

[AV8700]

I think you need to put your money where your mouth is and quit being Mr Internet Tough Guy, hurling insults at hardworking VOLUNTEERS while hiding behind an anonymous screen name.

When you're ready to see what the CNC and your hardworking UNPAID VOLUNTEER alpa reps really do all day, give me a call. I'll be happy to find you a position.

W. Faruzzi

Hurling insults? I didnt see that. In fact his post seems to be right on. What the heck is going on? Where is the pressure on the mediator to be released? Do we just sit around and wait all week or month for him to call us? Has any other airline gone this long in negotiations?
So we finished negotiating on the 10th, today is the 20th, what has been going on for the week and a half.

 

[Richard Gozinya]

In recurrent Scott Hall kept referring to the "new contract" or "under the new agreement" or even "this will make life better under the new contract".

Sure it is just their way of changing the way it is talked about, but he made it a point to reference it like it was done.

Dick

 

[shamrock]

In recurrent Scott Hall kept referring to the "new contract" or "under the new agreement" or even "this will make life better under the new contract".

Sure it is just their way of changing the way it is talked about, but he made it a point to reference it like it was done.

Dick

Yeah, but he was talking like that over a year ago when he and Bob Arnold had their debate in the crew lounge. Every time someone asked about the abuse and violations of our current contract he would only say something like "We want to start clean with the new contract" and not acknowledge the issue.

Kind of like telling you fiance that you'll stop cheating on her as soon as you're married.

 

[USCtrojan]

Yeah, but he was talking like that over a year ago when he and Bob Arnold had their debate in the crew lounge. Every time someone asked about the abuse and violations of our current contract he would only say something like "We want to start clean with the new contract" and not acknowledge the issue.

Kind of like telling you fiance that you'll stop cheating on her as soon as you're married.

You little instigator Shamrock! Trojan

 

[ASA]

How much are the negotiaters paid?

Do they fly?

Does it take 4 people, 4.5 years of 40-50 hour work weeks to negotiate a contract?

When they go out of town to negotiate, do they stay in the same hotels we do, at $1.50 per diem? I generally bring my meals. Do they? Or do they have an expense account?

Not trying to be critical. Seriously want to know.

 

[shamrock]

You little instigator Shamrock! Trojan

I'm single again and my knee and ankle have pulled a mutiny on me so I can't ride my bike as much as I want. What else do I have to occupy my time?

How much are the negotiaters paid?

Do they fly?

Does it take 4 people, 4.5 years of 40-50 hour work weeks to negotiate a contract?

When they go out of town to negotiate, do they stay in the same hotels we do, at $1.50 per diem? I generally bring my meals. Do they? Or do they have an expense account?

Not trying to be critical. Seriously want to know.

I believe they get paid guarantee and I don't think they fly much, if at all.

Since we still don't have I contract it would seem that it does indeed take that long to negotiate a contract, especially if the people you are negotiating with don't seem all that interested in taking part.

I can't speak to per diem and I'm sure the hotel accomodations are no better than those of the company negotiators and lawyers.

You could always call and ask them,they do work for you.

 

[wms]

We are the one's that vote yes or no.

 

[Richard Gozinya]

Kind of like telling you fiance that you'll stop cheating on her as soon as you're married.

SSSSSHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!

Don't let her hear this!

Dick

 

[Crash Pad]

How much are the negotiaters paid?

Do they fly?

Does it take 4 people, 4.5 years of 40-50 hour work weeks to negotiate a contract?

When they go out of town to negotiate, do they stay in the same hotels we do, at $1.50 per diem? I generally bring my meals. Do they? Or do they have an expense account?

Not trying to be critical. Seriously want to know.

My point exactly... No one has any motivation to get this done. The negotiators are paid.

I think they have dequaled... "So they don't bust a ride"... In reality it is so they don't ever have to fly again while this contract gets "worked on"

My point is not to be a tough guy. My point is that the Union Negotiators have no reason to get this done. Neither does the company and it shows.

To the W. Faruzzi gentleman. If you want to make me a paid full time Union guy I will come see you tomorrow. After looking this over I can't think of a better job. Can I start on the negotiating comitee? I will have plenty of time to get up to speed... I am positive I can hammer out two more sections in the next two or three years!

 

[DrunkIrishman]

You spineless chickensh$ts!!! What real men you are to come on this board and make those unfounded accusations. If you have a problem with the CNC, then take it to them.

Puss$es!

 

[shamrock]

To the W. Faruzzi gentleman. If you want to make me a paid full time Union guy I will come see you tomorrow. After looking this over I can't think of a better job. Can I start on the negotiating comitee? I will have plenty of time to get up to speed... I am positive I can hammer out two more sections in the next two or three years!

Nobody "makes" you a paid full time Union guy, and I don't think you're allowed on the negotiating committee unless you can spell it. That being said, if you can "hammer out" the compensation section without simply giving in to everything the Company wants or giving up everything that's already been agreed to then have at it.

 

[VeeOne]

I'd just like something to vote on before we actually go on strike- maybe it would pass and maybe it wouldn't......but at least I'd feel like I had some say and control in it.

 

[HoserASA]

The negotiators are paid.
Of course they are paid! They receive a guarantee from ALPA dues, like the CPs do and many others that work for management.

I think they have dequaled... "So they don't bust a ride"... In reality it is so they don't ever have to fly again while this contract gets "worked on"
I may be wrong but I don't think they have "dequaled". They obviously don't fly the line. Go over to the Strike Center and you can ask them yourself.

My point is not to be a tough guy. My point is that the Union Negotiators have no reason to get this done. Neither does the company and it shows.!
Your "point" is understood by all, and that is to start some crap over the team receiving their pay while released to ALPA. And no, we don't think you're a "tough guy" at all, just the opposite, a wimpy whiner hiding behind a screen name.

Believe me, the negotiation team wants this done. ALPA is at a tremendous disadvantage with the RLA that favors management. True though what you say about the company. They like status quo and it's to their advantage to try and keep it that way.

Hoser