ASA negotiations

["GO AROUND"]

I hope a strike can be averted, but I am prepared to vote YES. Since I am new to this whole 121 world, I am wondering if ASA will SH(tcan all the 200 or so new pilots (and the $millions for all the training) who are still on probation if a strike goes down.

If a strike does happen. We all go out and we all come back. Members don't leave probies swinging in the wind. The company may and probably will make the threat that probationary pilots will be fired, but a threat is all it is.

 

[ReportCanoa]

Actually, if your talking about shutting ASA down, the only one who will get a "sandpaper fist", will be the front line employees. Management will just start over again somewhere else.

Well, the only valuable "front-line" employees are the flight crews. My job is not just flying the plane, it's catching everyone else's mistakes. And it is a FULL TIME JOB. I will get paid for my services, or I will vote to shut down ASA and walk away. I WILL NOT "Pay to Play". The rampers and whoever else can get a higher paying job elsewhere- like McDonalds.

As for management? Good news! I hear Domino's Pizza is hiring managers.

 

[shamrock]

This is my last regional. I REALLY would rather walk than take a cut. No chest beating, just the truth.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

I won't say I have nothing to lose because that's not entirely true, but with the way things are going in this business the rewards are fast being eclipsed by the costs and compromises.

 

[e120pilot]

Tomct,

I have a hard time believing you have nothing to lose. I know for a fact you're looking for work elsewhere, but with no luck. Being a reserve SLC CR7 CA can't be that bad after all those years of commuting. I love how guys like you spend $10,000 for a job at ASA, get a quick upgrade, log tons of PIC time, but act like you've got the worse job in the world when you realize you can't get out of here. I didn't hear your battle cry when you were writing that big check to FSI. I've got no problem with people voicing their opinions of the company, but your chest thumping is getting ridiculous. The majority of pilots at ASA are fed up with negotiations, but I've only met a few that are spazzing out the way you are. It's people like you that are the reason this board has become such a joke. I know you're a sharp guy, try acting like it when you post on here.

 

[DrunkIrishman]

AVOICE-

I respect your situation and agree with you that you personally would stand to lose a lot. Unfortunately, you are in the minority in a majority rules striking situation. The best you can do is continue to voice your point of view to the MEC and negotiators. For the rest of us, many would rather strike and lose our jobs to pursue others than continue with this "cost box" foolishness. In fact, many of our pilots make more from their other jobs and only fly here for the flight bennies that are soon to be degraded.

 

[Stifler's Mom]

Losing a $100,000 per year job that works 12-15 days per month isn't "NOTHING". If that is your definition of "NOTHING", then you aren't living on the same planet.

Well, I only get 10-12 days a month and make $35,000 per year.

So, yes we do live on different planets and that fits my definition of "NOTHING"

 

[puddlejumper101]

Tomct,

I have a hard time believing you have nothing to lose. I know for a fact you're looking for work elsewhere, but with no luck. Being a reserve SLC CR7 CA can't be that bad after all those years of commuting. I love how guys like you spend $10,000 for a job at ASA, get a quick upgrade, log tons of PIC time, but act like you've got the worse job in the world when you realize you can't get out of here. I didn't hear your battle cry when you were writing that big check to FSI. I've got no problem with people voicing their opinions of the company, but your chest thumping is getting ridiculous. The majority of pilots at ASA are fed up with negotiations, but I've only met a few that are spazzing out the way you are. It's people like you that are the reason this board has become such a joke. I know you're a sharp guy, try acting like it when you post on here.

amen to that...

 

[commuterpuke]

Like all of us I wanted the uniform, to fly a cool jet as quick as possible, to feel equal to my friends, have hot chicks look at you during boarding while you flip switches and look cool, and all that other stuff

 

[puddlejumper101]

I let my union speak for me...when they determine they want a strike vote...then I will strike...for now let those guys do their job. I commend the ALPA negotiators...because they have a job that must be grueling and extremely frustating. They are there for a reason though...and last I checked negotiations between management and union suck, have always sucked and will continue to suck no matter where you work. UPS is going through the same crap...every legacy has been down this road before...I will strike if it comes to it...especially if our negotiators tell us that nothing can be done...but for now let those guys do their job. From my cup half full theory we have made progress...it took the company three damn years to put out a proposal...its crap but guess what...its finally something to negotiate over. Management knew that we would never accept the garbage they proposed...I think they did it to piss us off...and to start negotiations...at least we are NEGOTIATING something...unless you work at Southwest...expect nothing less when it comes to negotiations.

 

[ASADriver]

:angryfireAMEN coppervane! That is how most of us feel. We have NOTHING to lose and the company has EVERYTHING!! WE are holding ALL of the marbles, NOT mgmnt! Stay Strong Folks!!

Speak for yourself! There are problems here, but it is better than many other places. I think Skywest is making some much needed improvements around here.

 

[Palerider957]

Actually, if your talking about shutting ASA down, the only one who will get a "sandpaper fist", will be the front line employees. Management will just start over again somewhere else.

The "front line employees" can go back to Wendy's, have a roof over their head and a free meal each shift. Beleive me, these employees have no love or loyalty to ASA (with good reason.)

 

["GO AROUND"]

Yeah, SKW is making improvements, like promoting a tool like Terry Hayes? Keeping Willy around? Gary Gross and the other pilot haters we have at the GO? They are a big help to promoting the team at ASA. I used to be an optimist but the company squashed that and I am waiting for SKW to turn me back around.

Still waiting.

 

[Tomct]

ASAdrvr...I agree, there have been some improvements, BUT they are missing a BIG ONE!! Showing like they GIVE a CRAP about the pilots. Not seeing it! I will be the first to admit it when I see it, as of now, like go around said...STILL WAINTING.....

120...my check what? No, SLC has been great! But the negotiating has been the pitts. I know that the MEC is working hard, but the company is dragging their little feet knowing how much money we as a pilot group are losing! I can't believe that does not PISS you off! I did not take the upgrade as quick as I could have...liked my schedule. Getting screwed around by scheduling has not bothered you? Having your existing contract re-interpreted does not bother you...Come on man, you have got to be kidding me! But this is my second airline...seeing the same crap! Gets a bit frustrating and you better believe I am getting ready to hit the road! I never said that it was the worst job... I love my job, but when a company can take that joy AWAY, Houston, we have a problem!

I think more people are pissed off than show it! They are possibly the type to sit back and watch the fireworks. I will gladly be the one lauching the rockets when I know that "WE" are being dealt a BS deal. It is almost time to blink or show your cards. My cards are all out on the table and I don't think I am BLINKING!!

 

[FmrFreightDog]

Speak for yourself! There are problems here, but it is better than many other places. I think Skywest is making some much needed improvements around here.

Thanks, Bryan. Appreciate the input. Turd!

 

[wms]

Skywest has made some mgmt changes etc, but we haven't felt the effects of any changes or improvements. Word is that big changes are coming to scheduling, which if the plan is to make our scheduling similar to SKW, big changes is an understatement. But we probably won't see them until the contract is done.

In the meantime it's been business as usual for ALL frontline employees, including us. Life at ASA stinks and is going to until the changes become more operational.

 

[goodto50meters]

From Wednesday, says it all!

YES to STRIKE!
YES my MEC Speaks for ME!

======================================================



The Connection Special
11 January, 2006 edition

The Connection is e-mailed to you periodically by the ASA ALPA MEC and Communications Committee to share news of our union's activities and accomplishments.

1. CNC Update for Wednesday, 11 January 2006
2. In the Meantime.
3. Graphics Tell the Tale

1. CNC Update - Charleston, SC - Our CNC team is meeting with management today, and the two sides have agreed to continue work on two key sections of the contract: Section 12 - Hours of Service and Section 13 -Scheduling.

You'll recall management earlier presented their "comprehensive" package for all sections of the contract not currently subject to Tentative Agreement (T/A). Negotiations Committee members said the details of that document remain to be fleshed out and part of that process is the continued work on sections 12 and 13. The wording in those two sections alone represents more than a year's worth of negotiated language. Union leaders say too much time has been invested in the wording of those sections to continue any further in these contract talks without finishing what was started there. "Our pilots have made it very clear they want major improvements in scheduling, and that's what our Section Thirteen proposal attempts to address," said ASA MEC Chairman Bob Arnold.

Contract Negotiating Committee Chairman John Rice said his team is expected to continue negotiating Sections 12 and 13 throughout the rest of today's session. Another briefing is expected later this evening.

2. In the meantime.

By now, you've read or heard about management's spin on our last negotiating session. Tiresome as it is to respond to such drivel, we wanted to keep you informed as to the "real" story.

During a meeting with management on November 18, 2005, ALPA's Economic and Financial (E&FA) analyst, who was present along with John Rice and ALPA attorney Terry Saturday, requested information in the form of ten specific bullet points. That information was requested for use in making adjustments to ALPA's economic model, and the company financial representative present indicated the data would be provided.

As of December 6, after checking with ALPA E&FA, there was no economic data delivered or sent. CNC Chairman John Rice sent a letter to management that day requesting the same ten bullet point items so that we would have the data by our next scheduled meeting date on December 28. By December 16, after numerous attempts to contact management and checking several times with ALPA E&FA, again, no economic data was delivered or sent. On that date, John Rice again sent another letter (certified) - in fact a duplicate of the first - to ASA management requesting the same ten items, emphasizing that we would need this for our rapidly approaching meeting date of December 28. This time Rice copied Charlie Tutt and Bryan LaBrecque. Finally, on December 22, ASA management sent the economic data we originally requested over a month earlier - two days before the Christmas break and less than a week before our scheduled negotiation session. Naturally our E&FA folks did not have time to review and incorporate the data before our December 28 negotiation session. Therefore our E&FA analyst stayed in Herndon working on the model.

In concert with management's inability to communicate with us, they elected to bring their financial folks to the December 28 session. We had no indication they would be doing so, because ASA management's negotiating team policy is to ignore most ALPA correspondence, and most certainly not to initiate their own. So naturally they were surprised when just our CNC showed up on December 28 - or at least that's what they said. Our E&FA analysts were busy working on the economic data we finally received from management at the eleventh hour, just before negotiations were to resume.

The Negotiations Update published by management also offers some sketchy explanation about ALPA's lack of response to their request that we dive to the bottom of the industry in pay and benefits just to attract "growth". We responded all right, but it wasn't what they wanted to hear, so it was characterized as a lack of response on ALPA's part. Quite frankly, as ASA pilots, we don't buy aircraft or select what routes management puts those aircraft on. That's management's job - our job is to fly the equipment we operate over the routes we're given (See Section 1.G. of the Collective Bargaining Agreement). So it should have come as no surprise to management that we only indicated we were aware of the lousy deal they signed and we could only suggest alternatives to lowering their costs - just not on the backs of the pilots. And since management reads everything we publish, maybe now they'll get it. Just in case they haven't gotten it yet, let's spell it out one more time:

We will not participate in a race to the bottom to sanction growth, pay, benefits, or even the promise of future employment!

We are confident that SkyWest management has not squandered huge sums of money on the purchase of ASA, only to let ASA management scuttle any hope of profitability or growth.

And while we're at it, keep in mind the details of management's most recent "roadmap to success." As presented, their proposal means no pay raise, a pay reduction for CR7 pilots on the average of 8%, and no cost of living increases for the life of the contract - which is proposed at 5 years. Additionally, for CR7 crews, the added bonus of being required to maintain qualification in both the CR7 and the CR2. What a deal! So line that up with your last pay raise, which might have been in September 2002. Keep in mind the added operational mandates management has required of you since then, such as CAT II qualification, along with security hassles, scheduling nightmares, dynamic reinterpretation of your contract and a nagging sense of job insecurity, and you should have a pretty clear view of how this management team, with its guiding law firm of Ford and Harrison view your role as a "teammate."

We could highlight the other sections of managements "opener", but we think you get the picture.

Stand up for what you deserve, don't settle for less, and don't buy into management "pay to play" scheme. It will only work if we allow it.

3. Graphics tell the tale

The authors of management's Negotiations Update were quite creative when generating the proposed pay rate graphic that accompanied their publication. According to their estimates, our proposed compensation is highly out of line with that of other, similar carriers. We've attached our own series of graphs (you'll need Adobe Acrobat Reader software to read them) - not quite as artistic, but far more representative of the truth - that map out our current pay rates and compare them to current rates at other DCI carriers. The graphs show at a glance that our current rates of compensation hover at near the bottom of the industry tier on the CR-200, and are in line with the DCI average on the CR-700. Additionally, we show where our pay rates for each piece of equipment would be today if we were merely receiving an annual Cost of Living Allowance (COLA) raise of three percent, which we've not received since before 2002.


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[atlcrjdriver]

From the latest MEC update, it appears that they are making progress at the table. It may be slow but at least things are moving again.
LET THE MEC DO THERE JOBS...

Yes, my MEC speaks for me and if the time comes and they call for a strike vote I will vote yes to support the MEC. As far as closing this place down and actually walking the pavement, that is a whole other story. For every one ramper and gate agent that doesn't care and could care less about doing there job there are two that perform very well and need this pay check. However they are the silent majority being overshadowed by the loud few that screw everyone.

Fly Safe, Do Your Job and Go Home...

 

[rjcap]

The "front line employees" can go back to Wendy's, have a roof over their head and a free meal each shift. Beleive me, these employees have no love or loyalty to ASA (with good reason.)

Awesome !

 

[ASADFW7]

When I hear my union speaks for me, it makes me wonder what people think of that. I am part of the union, I pay my 2.1%, I am in good standing, and have been a MEC member in a previous company. I will not watch an MEC take a position that does not represent membership. They are elected officials representing the pilot group. No hidden agendas, they are us. If we strike it means the majority of the voting pilots wanted a strike. Not because the MEC wants it. If we say no, then no strike.

You have to keep an MEC responsible to membership. Just as the MEC keeps management responsible to the contract.

 

[atrdriver]

When I hear my union speaks for me, it makes me wonder what people think of that. I am part of the union, I pay my 2.1%, I am in good standing, and have been a MEC member in a previous company. I will not watch an MEC take a position that does not represent membership. they are elected officials representing the pilot not group. No hidden agendas, they are us. If we strike it means the majority of the voting pilots wanted a strike. Not because the MEC wants it. If we say no, then no strike.

You have to keep an MEC responsible to membership. Just as the MEC keeps management responsible to the contract.

What on earth makes you think that the MEC isn't speaking for the pilots? They continue to take polls through the Wilson Center to find out what the pilots want, and I think that they are doing a pretty good job of speaking for the majority of the pilots.