ASA Negotiations grind to a halt (again)! ASA management out of touch with reality!

[ohplease!]

Noone is guaranteed a raise at any job. COLA raises included. No employer has to give a raise each year just cause the cost of living goes up. My wife didn't get a payraise this year cause the industry she is in is down right now.

You get what the company can afford, what you can negotiate, or move on to a job that can pay you more. I know the airlines are different but no raise is guaranteed in any job.

I didn't say anyone was guaranteed anything. Read it again... what I said was, if you are not getting a cost of living increase = to at least actual cost of living increases, you ARE in effect taking a paycut.

The origional statement was that Skywest has not taken paycuts...maybe not having $ taken away but, if they're not getting COLA each year, they're "losing" money (same as a paycut). Don't try to make too much out of it. If they have gotten no increase in the last 7 years, their money isn't worht as much now. Its a fact. ECON 101.

 

[ohplease!]

That is NOT a pay cut simply because you didn't get a raise. Having 30% (or more) less in your pocket every two weeks is indeed a pay cut. I don't think you can call each one the same thing. By your same logic, the paycut would actually be more than 21%, because you would have to count every year the 3% didn't kick in, not just the past 7.

The major pilots who have lost money (not COLA raises) did start off making MUCH more than SkyWest. Just as they started off making MUCH more than ASA, Comair, Air Wisconsin, and every other regional. What's your point?

If your pay isn't increasing at least at the same rate as inflation, you're backing up...same as taking a "pay cut".

 

[Texx]

Some would call it helping the company I call it helping myself to extra cash. If the trips aren't picked up in open time then some poor slob will be extended anyway.

Yeah and the company is laughing all the way to the bank. They were going to pay pilots double time to pick up trips but then they said "why should we pay them anymore than what they would get paid if we jr man them".

 

[Morning Wood]

If your pay isn't increasing at least at the same rate as inflation, you're backing up...same as taking a "pay cut".

Okay then. Assuming the 3% raise did happen, the gas prices went up more than that same 3% last year. Would that be a pay cut too? I'm sorry, but you ALPA guys can spin this however you want to make people on the fence see things your way, but that is not the same thing as a pay cut. It is not the same as money taken away.

ASA has been working under the terms of the old contract for the last 4 years. Would that be a pay cut?

 

[Smacktard]

Okay then. Assuming the 3% raise did happen, the gas prices went up more than that same 3% last year. Would that be a pay cut too? I'm sorry, but you ALPA guys can spin this however you want to make people on the fence see things your way, but that is not the same thing as a pay cut. It is not the same as money taken away.

ASA has been working under the terms of the old contract for the last 4 years. Would that be a pay cut?

Hey, if Baseline Budgeting is good enough for Congress, it should be good enough for us!

 

[ohplease!]

Okay then. Assuming the 3% raise did happen, the gas prices went up more than that same 3% last year. Would that be a pay cut too? I'm sorry, but you ALPA guys can spin this however you want to make people on the fence see things your way, but that is not the same thing as a pay cut. It is not the same as money taken away.

ASA has been working under the terms of the old contract for the last 4 years. Would that be a pay cut?

okay, now you've gone and gotten personal! I can't believe you called me "an ALPA guy"....just ask around and you'll soon find out that I could NEVER be mistaken for an ALPA guy....( light humor here. Don't get your panties in a wad)...


Seriously though, yes we have taken a "pay cut" every year since the contract became amendable.

I'll never try to talk anyone into voting in ALPA. Actually, I'd suggest you didn't. I believe there is NO WAY they can represent us (regionals) in good faith, assuming they even wanted to (which I don't believe they do).

However, I do think you guy's need a better form of representation to speak for you than SAPA and even more importantly, if our two companies are to be owned by the same company, our two pilot groups REALLY NEED to be combined to prevent "whipsawing". It could EASILY be done to prevent anyone on either side from being affected negativly.

That could be done most easily and more quickly if both groups were ALPA. At some point down the road, I believe ALPA should be replaced by some other bargaining unit that could and would look after our best interests.

The other HUGE hinderence to us is the RLA. But thats a subject for an entirely differently thread.

But hey! Thats just my opinion.

 

[Morning Wood]

okay, now you've gone and gotten personal! I can't believe you called me "an ALPA guy"....just ask around and you'll soon find out that I could NEVER be mistaken for an ALPA guy....( light humor here. Don't get your panties in a wad)...


Seriously though, yes we have taken a "pay cut" every year since the contract became amendable.

I'll never try to talk anyone into voting in ALPA. Actually, I'd suggest you didn't. I believe there is NO WAY they can represent us (regionals) in good faith, assuming they even wanted to (which I don't believe they do).

However, I do think you guy's need a better form of representation to speak for you than SAPA and even more importantly, if our two companies are to be owned by the same company, our two pilot groups REALLY NEED to be combined to prevent "whipsawing". It could EASILY be done to prevent anyone on either side from being affected negativly.

That could be done most easily and more quickly if both groups were ALPA. At some point down the road, I believe ALPA should be replaced by some other bargaining unit that could and would look after our best interests.

The other HUGE hinderence to us is the RLA. But thats a subject for an entirely differently thread.

But hey! Thats just my opinion.

One list? Hell, people from the SunAire-SkyWest intergration 23 years ago still haven't gotten over losing a couple numbers. An ASA-SkyWest one would be a nasty deal I'm afraid.

P.S. Panties out of a wad and apologizing for the ALPA remark!

 

[sweptback]

One list? Hell, people from the SunAire-SkyWest intergration 23 years ago still haven't gotten over losing a couple numbers. An ASA-SkyWest one would be a nasty deal I'm afraid.

P.S. Panties out of a wad and apologizing for the ALPA remark!

An integration of the lists might be bad for the short term, but will more than make up for it in the long term. We need to think long term for once!

 

[FightingIrish]

Not much unity? Take a look at the election results from your recent LEC elections. Seems to me that the pilot group demonstrated perfect unity with a resounding vote of confidence in the leadership team. The only people not unified are the very few rouges like yourself and Johnny B.

Actually I was talking about unity on a National level. We are all undercutting each other to get growth. I would agree with you that there is more unity on a local level. That being said, the LJ coalition still received about 200 votes out of about 700 votes. It wasn't just a "few rouges", and your attacks are what turns people off to ALPA.

 

[FightingIrish]

Deserve the worst if WE strike??? What do they care- they just retire early. It's not like they haven't raked in the cash to sustain themselves anyway without ASA employment. All they have to do is live off the intrest from their bonus money.

Meanwhile, the pilots get to start over on probationary pay again. Sure some of the captains will move on, but how many of the more senior guys would be stuck when the music stops because they are too old to move on? Anybody over 45 ain't gettin' on with a major or Southwest- I promise..........

Geez, if we strike we strike- but no need to be all happy about it like Christmas is coming..........

I agree VeeOne. I will support a strike, but I don't want one, and I think we will lose if we do strike.